Edinburgh-London-Paris in that order
 

Trying to put together a trip departing around July 16 or so and returning 10-14 days later for my wife and me. If the reverse order of that makes more sense, fine..tell me. We're not a bus tour couple...but we want to see lots..and we want to spend some time biking (which I'm thinking outside of Edinburgh for that) We're in good health,mid 60s, I'd like to wrap it up in Paris after having seen the must see attractions in Edinburgh and London first. We like good hotels..very top of the line not necessary;think 4 star here. Like good food (again..no $200 per person meals in Paris for us..give us a street market with escargot, great baguette and some wine and we're good) Are we on a budget? Yes...and no. And a nice horseback ride in the country would be great. Plane, train, no driving.
Anyone who can make sense of this and give us some ideas as to where to start..tour operators, independent traveler consultants, whatever..thanks!

Do you mean July 16 <i>this</i> year? Because if so you have left it very late to book. Have you looked at air fares?

It doesn't make much difference which way round you do this - plane or train between Edinburgh and London, train between London and Paris. Go to seat61.com and read up on trains, go to skyscanner.com for budget airlines. Buy your long haul tickets into Edinburgh and out of paris or vice versa.

What I don't understand is why you are visiting three big (very big in the case of London) cities if you want to ride bikes and horses in the countryside, You'd be better off somewhere like the Cotswolds.

Suggest you start with some guidebooks. Fodors has some, lol, and you can borrow DK or Insight from the library or read them at your local bookshop. Look for Lonely Planet or Rough Guide or Michelin as well.

10 days isn't long enough for all that. 14 days is rushed but more doable. (14 days only nets you 11.5 days on the ground)

It really doesn't matter which order -- most likely your cheapest flights would be in to London and home from Paris. If so, then you would fly to London, train to Edinburgh, fly to Paris, fly home. IF you can get a cheaper flight in to Edinburgh and home from either Paris or London -- then it would be fly to EDI, train to London train to Paris fly home, or fly to EDI, fly to Paris train to London fly home.

>> spend some time biking (which I'm thinking outside of Edinburgh for that) <<

Biking (assuming you mean bicycles and not motorbikes/motorcycles) is not the easy excursion you might imagine. Very narrow roads w/ usually no shoulders. And (if you are from North America) all your instincts about where to look and where the traffic is coming from will be wrong.

we were posting at the same time. thursdaysd is right, you are picking difficult places if you want to ride/bike.

There's plenty of cycling in Edinburgh - http://www.spokes.org.uk/

I've just started to look into this and have a wild hair to pull this off in 60 days.Circumstances in our lives have presented themselves where you wake up and say, why NOT now because life really is too short, have prompted me to try this. Just two of us..we can do it. And yes, Cotswolds was a biking trip we looked at ten years ago, but had to scratch. It would be beautiful I'm sure. But since Edinburgh and Paris are the two must-go cities for us, we'll drop London altogether..or give it a quick look, look for reasonable bike path areas. I have read there are such in the Edinburgh area that are very accommodating to bicyclists. And to be clear, we're talking pleasure riding, not grueling climbs and speed. We've biked in Ireland..all over, including a 40 miler one day all around Dingle/hills and we handled it well. We're aware of the crazy narrow roads and drivers on the "other side" of the road and yes, it can be treacherous. But thank you for the comment/concern/warnings.

So, then........flying to Edinburgh, flying to Paris, fly home. (unless we go to London a couple of days just to say so, then train from EDI to London, train to Paris, fly home.) But first, I better look at just how insane the air flights this late date are...Thanks to all.

Ok - if you can, fly into Edinburgh (or Glasgow), get the train down to London, then Eurostar onto Paris, and finally fly home from Paris - that way you will have no backtracking whatsoever.

For riding, have you considered a hack in one of the London parks?

Yes there is -- I was talking about the perils of riding in the country when one is assuming idyllic country roads, when they are mostly only 'idyllic' for cars.

For trains check www.nationalrail.co.uk -for schedules and fares for all British regular trains and booking very early can yield big discounts - if not on a budget I'd suggest first class for long-distance trains - a huge difference IME and these tickets also come in discounted -if taking several longer trains check out a BritRail Pass which lets you hop on and off just about train - there are also Caledonian Sleepers between London and many Scottish stations.

For lots on British trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Very narrow roads w/ usually no shoulders.< Yes having biked for years around England these back roads are idyllic looking but like janis says can be very narrow - basically single-laned with 'passing places' along the way- and IME often thick hedgerows along each side so no way to get off.

OK, see what you can find and book your flights and then we can help you work out a plan. There is a big difference between 10 and 14 days re what you can squeeze in.

BTW the Cotswolds are even worse for biking than rural Scotland.

A post from Cotswold-resident flanneruk on a recent thread:

"<blue>The Cotswolds aren't at all bike-friendly, so naturally today's breed of self-centred obsessives sees that as a challenge. Increasingly, quiet microtowns are invaded by pelotons of Middle Aged Morons in Lycra, breaking speed limits, going the wrong way up one-way streets and pretending they're too "authentic" to look at traffic signs.

If you're that kind of me-generation anti-social, take your fad and practice it somewhere else. If you just fancy cycling along empty country lanes, realise there's no such thing here, and that undulating, twisty roads are simply death traps for people on bikes. A driver well below the 50 mph speed limit typically has fractions of a second between first seeing a cyclist and hitting him.

We have adequate (by British standards, so outstanding by the standards of most of the rest the world) public transport, the world's best footpaths for walking, OK roads for driving around and well-trained horses and riders. The only useful role bikes play in all this is to help properly-trained people living beyond easy walking distance get to stations or bus stops.</blue>"

If you're going to Paris, I would recommend contacting this company
http://www.frenchmystiquetours.com/ The owner will take you on a personalized bike tour heading outside of Paris - you'll see some wonderful places you never knew existed. And you won't encounter the dangerous traffic problem mentioned in the Cotswolds and thereabouts.

The only useful role bikes play in all this is to help properly-trained people living beyond easy walking distance get to stations or bus stops.">

Rubbish- I've biked all over Britain and find it fascinating and a real way to see local life - you don't speed past things like on a train or bus but 'feel' the country. I've led hundreds, literally, several hundred of folks on bike trips in Britain and no one saw it as dangerous (we routed them on the safest roads possible) and everyone thought it was great - from stopping by rural pubs and small villages cars often bypoass).

Yes the country don't have many great bike paths but not all side roads are like the ones in Scotland janis so aptly described. Main roads have wide shoulders and bike touring is as much a rage in Britain as in any country in Europe except a handful like Holland, Belgium, Denmark - dense falt countries with plenty of bike paths.

The Tour de France I think started in England last year.

So don't ditch the idea of biking - just chose an area conducive to it. Having a mountain bike expands the opportunities as you can see from the paths they can go over in the following:

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/se...est-bike-rides

Seems not everyone agrees with flanner:

http://www.cotswolds.com/things-to-do/cycling-routes

http://www.the-cotswolds.org/top/eng...ling/index.php

I was actually thinking more of off-road cycling:

http://cotswolds.info/cotswold-tours/cycling.shtml

wow..I'm overwhelmed by the many helpful responses posted.
I think we've decide this coming July is much too soon to do this trip justice, not to mention how high the air fares would be to
book at this late date. ( BUT, I still am dying to go NOW so, if anyone wants to talk me out of waiting..give it a shot please!)
We'd be leaving anywhere from July 19/20 returning July 30/31. That would be 10-11 non-flying days, should be as long as we'd need..and could afford.

I had to laugh at flanneruk's post on biking in the Cotswolds.
"Middle Aged Morons in Lycra." HA! So funny..and true! I see them where we live,pelotons seemingly oblivious to surrounding traffic and stop signs and if you DARE come close to them, ohhhhhhhhh the outrage.

I'm a walker, not a cyclist, but we have in common some places that are good for both. In large cities consider big parks with cycle routes. I suspect the Bois de Boulogne in Paris has plenty. In the countryside do some research on canals with paved or otherwise well-surfaced towpaths. Google, for instance, "uk cycling towpaths". The better surfaced (paved) paths are usually on either side & into larger towns and are great places for rides.

Examples:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy...erways/cycling

https://www.waterways.org.uk/news_ca...ng_on_towpaths

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ac...le-routes.html

Last night I arrived home after some time spent in the Cotswolds and flanneruk is correct. Driving, particularly on Sundays, was a never-ending dance on narrow rural roads trailing seemingly oblivious cyclists seconds away from possible annihilation, quite a phenomenon. Don't join them, stay on designated cycle routes, preferably not alongside car lanes. You'll be much happier, as will the drivers.

Thank you..I'm convinced; we're not going to attempt the Cotswolds.

With that short a trip you do not really have time for much biking - hassle with renting, etc. Biking sounds great and maybe more romantic than it is in the UK.

Question..everyone is saying/inferring that anything less than 14 days is a rushed trip. Really? So, if we keep it to Scotland/EDI and France/Paris, wouldn't 10 days-12 days be enough time?? And, if we did make it a 14 day trip, couldn't we fit in London? Flying into EDI, then train to London, then train/fly to Paris..fly home from Paris? I'm not a one percenter..not even close so, we need to pack in as much as we can in that time frame. More importantly, we have too many situations here too complicated and boring to explain to be away much longer than that.

You can make any length work -- but do need to understand the logisitics.

let's work w/ a 12 day total trip:

1.5 days spent flying to Europe. 1 day flying home. At least the rest of your arrival day will be jet lagged so not really much sightseeing possible. Then another .5 day eaten up moving from Edinburgh to either London or Paris.

So now your '12 days' is really just 8.5 days free for seeing/doing.

With 14 days and doing all 3 cities - another .5 day for the extra city transfer so 14 days will net you 10 useable days which is doable for Edinburgh/London/Paris -- but not a lot of time to spare.

Ok, good information there. The travel time once in Europe is probably much underestimated by travelers I'm guessing. I get it. Thank you.

Two weeks is plenty of time to see Edinburgh, London and Paris but not much else in between.

Edinburgh-London 5 hours by train
London-Paris 2 hours by Eurostar train

not much travel time if just going to those three cities - maybe do a day trip out of those bases - like to Salisbury and Stonehenge from London or to Reims for Champagne Cave tours from Paris

and Edinburgh to nearby Stirling or St Andrews or do a mini-bus tour of the Scottish Highlands. A couple of days in Edinburgh itself is enough for most but those short day trips are so sweet.

two hours to Paris STILL eats up most of half a day. Check out, travel to St Pancras, 45 min check in, train trip, travel from Gare du Nord to your Paris hotel, check in or leave luggage and return later to check in. You are probably talking close to 5 hours hotel room to hotel room.

Two weeks is <i>time</i> but not 'plenty of time'.

PQ: << London-Paris 2 hours by Eurostar train >>

But you have to check out of your hotel, get to the Eurostar station early, and get from Gare du Nord in Paris to your hotel.

BTW if taking the Eurostar to Paris, get your tickets as early as possible. They get a lot more expensive close to your travel day.

I think the problem is your interest in biking in the countryside. That implies a leisurely trip. But you don't have much time and want to see some cities. In your itinerary I think skipping London is a good idea. Save it for another trip with more time in the English countryside.

Oh, don't skip London. It's my favorite of the three. You can't do it all anywhere, but you can hit the high spots and you can just walk around and see lots of well known sights from the outside. Since you imply that you may not get back frequently, look at what travel guides call the Top Five or so and choose what appeals to you most. Then when you do go back, you can fill in some of the blanks.

Thanks to all! Better do this right; I'm going to schedule two weeks, maybe 16 days. That should work.

That's great -- It will be more enjoyable not having to rush from place to place.

PQ: << London-Paris 2 hours by Eurostar train >>

Yes that was the actual train time but Mimar is right in checking in at least 45 minutes early as required and getting to St Pancras International station, etc means all in all a half a day between your London digs and Paris ones.

You can go horseback riding in Hyde Park in London, actually. If you do this regularly, you know that is not cheap, however. They do provide boots and hats, which surprised me. I don't think they allow you to just rent a horse and go off on your own, perhaps liability reasons, you could book a semi-private ride, though, for the two of you (will be an escort). It's about 90 GBP per hour per person, and of course, is not countryside riding, but bridle paths in the park.

http://www.hydeparkstables.com/horse...-riding-prices

I've seen 3 major cities in only about 12 days and enjoyed it a lot, wasn't the horrors people say--I visited Dublin, Edinburgh and London, and spent a day in-between Edinburgh and London in the Lake Country. Flew between Dublin and Edinburgh. Had at least 3 full days in each, as I recall.

I've seen 3 major cities in only about 12 days>

I may have done even more - you do NOT have to stay a week or so in each place to fully get the get out of it - you could but to me more different cities the better with a stay of say 3 nights or 4 in tourist meccas - I get tired of large cities after a while - can be fatiguing with a laundry list of 'must see' sights, etc.

Hi reason on..I havent read all the replies..but I have just been in Lon and Paris..and plan Edinburgh for next year.
YOU CAN DO BIKE tours on all 3 cities and are wonderful..you do a lot and with a guide... in Paris you have Blue Bike which I strongly recommend. I have just found there is another on Edinburgh and London also has them but wasnt keen on bike tours..Found LON too overwhelming... 3 star hotel at Kensington gardens breakfast included.. Hotel 43.
Paris one week EU 900 awsome neighbourhood HoteldelaPaix Eiffel.
You can make it in July if you want.
I did one week each city.
Lon dont miss Bath for the day and Windsor..take the train by yourself and buy the tkts at the entrance..dont take tours.
Trains leave from Paddington 15mins walk from Hotel43.

PARIS dont miss one day tour to Loire. The day trips visit 3 castles..and worth the trip even b a bus tour..Not keen on bus tours myself..rather do it solo..but unless you take the train to TOurs or Blois and take the shuttles..the bus tours are worth. Try tourisme france.
AND PLEASE do Versailles full day. Also take the metro but register on their page buy tkts online and book a guided tour...on a week day.

all the best.
cheers
Dolores

reaso on

FLY TO EDINBURGH
Train Edinburgh to London 4 hours 100 pounds one way
Eurostar LON to Paris /2 hours..very enjoyable...less than USD 100
Arrives at Gard du Nord.
From Gard du NordTake the 42 bus to Central Paris for 2 Euros paid cash (I did it) . 30 mins drive
Take buses in Paris..all for 2EU...no need cards..pay cash
And take the bike tours!!!!!!!!

At HoteldelaPaix you have a bakery within 10 steps.. diary opened until 1am.. YES 1 am not 1 pm
Cafes open until late
Tour Eiffel 5 b;ocks from hotel
Bus 87 half block takes you to the Louvre along St Germain de Pres

I walked Paris by myself at 1230AM...(I am yr age)

cheers

to fuzzbucket..
thank you info about the mystique biketours..will do it next year.. and one of the castles I had in mind
the famous châteaux of Vaux-le-Vicomte, Chantilly

While on Chenonceau I met a group of bikers doing the Loire!!

AMAZING idea!

The day trips visit 3 castles..and worth the trip even b a bus tour..Not keen on bus tours myself..rather do it solo..but unless you take the train to TOurs or Blois and take the shuttles..the bus tours are worth.>

http://www.accodispo-tours.com/

This is one company, of several, that has been in business a long time - take train to Tours and hook up with them at the station.