Ed and Julie deserve accolades

Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 05:14 AM
  #41  
Paulo
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For starters, I use my real name and address and I certainly don't make any buck out of the Fodors site.

IMO, the concept of "a rule is a rule no matter what" is not only naive ... it's downright stupid because it doesn't serve anybody. If you think a bit further, any society that would abide for such concepts would be downright dangerous.

Any rule is set (at least it should be) for a good reason. In the present case, the rule was set by Fodors and we sure all know what Fodors meant, don't we?

Why don't Ed's detractors ask themselves the question: "is Ed an asset or a liability to the forum?" or, if you wish, is he an asset or liability to FODORS? If you're in doubt, why don't you just ask Danny Mangin? Being part of the team that elaborated the rule he would be in position to clarify it, doesn't he?

Howard put it well. The "holier-than-thouers" on this thread are laughable. Why don't you guys knock it off? How many times have you been fined when travelling at 65.01 mph on a 65mph speed limit highway? (BTW, when I lived in the US, I got a speeding ticket + red light crossing when driving from home to Stanford hospital at night. Got to the audience, explained to the judge what my reasons were, proved that there were no dangers whatsoever in my action to third parties and the charges were dropped.

Can't we be as civilized here in the forum?

Paulo
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 05:45 AM
  #42  
Debbie
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What has happened to Fodors? Both the USA and Europe have totally gotten away from what it was originally conceived for-a talk forum bulletin board to help others on their travel journeys.Come on people-life is too short to constantly argue/slander,etc. perfect strangers! Ed and Julie along with the countless others who have helped me through the years are "old email friends" that have taken time out of their lives to help those of us who are less fortunate on certain areas to know more.
One of the highlights of my day has been (for the past few years) to go to "MY FAVORITES" and click down to see where the latest journey has taken some of my cyber travel friends and their opinions.Please stop all useless bickering and back stabbing and get on with "the journeys"!(If you do not like someone's opinion,etc.-then don't read it and scroll on.) The rest of us really want to read other people's opinions and tips on various places.Thanks for letting me vent?Debbie
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 06:00 AM
  #43  
djk
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As a relatively newer member of these forums, I have to say that I found Ed's site to be somewhat helpful for my next trip. I was amazed at how much info he had there and that there were limited ads, etc.
I find his mentioning his helpful website much less annoying than that David (last name White?) guy who always puts that long trailer after his posts for his book Kids in the London ( or something like that).
What is the difference with Ed mentioning his tip site, than others recommending oratory.com for packing lists, or my personal suggestion of www.irelandexpert.com for Ireland topics ?
If you think Ed should have to stop, then all those should stop too, and then where would we be?

I think there is a big difference between mentioning a website that is devoted to selling something, and mentioning a website that is devoted to giving information and helpful hints - which happens to sell something or link to a company.

Thanks Ed & Julie for all your hard work.

A Different Debbie (who simply doesn't want any spam)
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 06:23 AM
  #44  
No Name
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The overwhilming majority of the people with an opinion support Ed. Will that cause the snipers to reconsider and decide maybe they arent correct after all?


Nah.
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 06:29 AM
  #45  
tms
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The country voted for Nixon twice, too.
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 06:37 AM
  #46  
xxxxx
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Ilisia,
The reason people like Bob the Navigator and Rex support Ed is because they don't want to lose THEIR opportunity to sell services on this site. Do you get it? Of course they don't make money for directly supporting Ed, they are simply trying to preserve their right to hawk stuff on this site (which isn't a right that apparently is given to all). Paulo, I am of the slippery slope school. I believe that a crack in the rules will ultimately bring about chaos. You will never convince me that you are right. Rules are rules and, as someone said, when most people mention a web site on here, the place goes nuts. You people are a clique. You can say, "well don't come here then," but this is also MY website. You don't hold dominion over it. It belongs to everyone with a computer and an opinion. I too am sorry to see the conversation get away from travel, but I don't think this is anymore a waste of time or space than people ranting about changes to the fodors board. I am a patriot trying to preserve something that I value. I know what you are going to say, "Well then why have you gotten so ugly?" I didn't start this, but I did chip in my opinion and will continue to do so. I believe that this site is abused by Ed and Bob and others and don't think that just because they have endeared themselves to those of you who spend 20 hours a day on this board they should be allowed exemptions to rules.
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 07:10 AM
  #47  
a
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Dear [email protected], tito, and other anonymous poison pens:

Usually we can judge the merit of someone's words by the reputation they build up over time. Since you choose anonymity we can't do that, of course.

Perhaps you would like to let us know what your constructive contributions to the forum have been.

a
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 08:32 AM
  #48  
Bob Brown
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Like most of the people who post on this board, I have no vested interest of any kind in any travel or travel related business.
But I must admit I do have mixed emotions about promotional postings by people who derive income of any type from a commercial web site, or who engage in the travel business as a profession.
So in view of all of the comments above, both defending and attacking the professionals who inhabit this board, let me ask a question based on an actual case.
I have friends who are in the travel business. That is how they make a living. Although I have no vested interest at all in their business, I could reference them with phone number, every time I posted something on this board.
So am I within the bounds of propriety as set forth by Fodors as a condition for using this board if I constantly refer people to my friends?
If you say I am violating some rule, then how is that any different from what others on this board are doing?
If Ed and Bob can post at will with references, then why cannot any and all of us further the financial interests of ourselves, friends, neighbors, and relatives? If all of us don't have that privilege, then what rules of engagement do you cite that exempt the Ed's and Bob N.'s of this board?
So can I now start to suffix, or prefix, all of my postings with a line that says:
Call xyz for the best in travel service.
The number is 111-222-3333!?
Or perhaps all of us should get a corporate sponsor and post for profit!
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 08:39 AM
  #49  
Ed
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Bob ... if it is Bob ...

You've joined the sickos.

TWENJ is a not for profit site.

Only a few of the more than 180+ pages make reference to books, many NOT obtainable from Amazon.com ... but we tell people where they can get them ... because we're trying to be helpful ... for no profit.

I reiterate, the income covers direct costs. The income does not cover the 100s of hours of added material, updates, answers to requests for advice. And anyone who thinks a decent website has a $25 one time cost has no idea what they're talking about.

Over the last year and a half I've watched this forum drive away people who are trying to be helpful. Participants lash out at newcomers for not asking a question the right way. People lie about who they are. Folks make completely unfounded statements.

There's absolutely no reason for anyone who visits this forum to believe anything that is said on here ... whether travel advice or anathema.

Fodor's should be ashamed of what they're fostering.
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 08:58 AM
  #50  
Thyra
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Woa now Ed, if you are in fact Ed, calm down now, there is still a great deal of useful information on this web site. People are, rightfully IMO trying to prevent it from becoming a message board for personal gain and there is nothing wrong with that. In the past people have come to this board and tried to sift it for business and profit. The are subject to a great deal of censure. It speaks well for this board that people care enough about it to protest what they perceive as improper usage. By placing a post on this free-very open message board you are opening yourself up to a virtual pandora's box of responses. That is the nature of the Internet. People will love you or hate you and that is the way it is, period. It is an unavoidable risk. It's a microcosm for that freedom of speech conundrum. "It's great to have it (freedom of speech) as long as I agree with what people are saying", we all know it doesn't work that way. If one person has gotten useful advice from you for the purpose of travel then this board has achieved it's goal. If you helped one person, you should feel good about it. If people don't like what you do, well that is an inherent risk. You must decide if helping an honest traveler outweighs someone slamming you. If you decide it doesn't then who has won?
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 09:08 AM
  #51  
Karen
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I am weighing in on this argument after watching on the sidelines for the last few days. Heretofore, I have used an alias, but I am using my real address so not to be accused of hiding behind a pseudonym.

I agree that the Ed/Julie site is "nice," and it is useful. However, I have gotten increasingly irritated at the many references to go to their site, which does, frankly, have a lot of self-promotion and sales-related links.

Second, Ed, you feel as if you are justified to fund the cost for this site. This is a vanity site that you set up to display to the world how well-traveled, sophisticated and cultured you and your wife are. Believe me, I know that there are associated costs, but, hey, is that our problem or should it be our burden to listen to your endless plugs for your site? This was your choice to set this site up. But don't make us unwitting dupes to support it. Just give the advice you know and BASTA. If we want to go to your site, most of us are smart enough to do a search. You are largely, I am sorry to say, in the wrong on this particular issue.
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 09:48 AM
  #52  
Sheila
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This is getting out of hand.

I always (well, apart from once) use my real address. I have had no spam, except from the guy selling art, who on a perfectly pleasant request to be deleted from his mailing list deleted my address.

I AM NOT associated with with any commercial travel organisation. I am a solicitor (attorney)- a partner in my own firm. But I have a confession..after spending some hours helping a very nice couple from North Carolina (Hi Betty Ann), my husband and I allowed them to but us dinner..and a thoroughly pleasant evening it was, too. So, do I have a commercial interest? After all we only did 195 mile round trip to meet them...

I was however attcked by someone for not having pure motives, because how could anyone want to help so much they would spend that much time just for nothing.

I haven't used Ed and Julie's web site, because it has not been relevant; but I know they're helpful.

But I suspect they're just like me; prepared to put abit of effort in because it's what interests them.

And is it really so niaive to just expect people to be nice?

Lay off. What harm are they doing? And by contrast, how much good?

 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 10:24 AM
  #53  
asdf
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Bob Brown, I don't understand your position, so I hope you'll spell it out. Are you saying no one can recommend a hotel, tour, restaurant? Are you saying no one can recommend a hotel, tour or restaurant if they are friendly with the owner? Please explain, because I missed it.

Ed, I don't understand why you say your web site is "non profit." I assume it is not a charity, so it is "for profit" if it has revenues of any kind. Whether it makes a profit or loss is beside the point. Also, I don't think your tone is helping you much, assuming it is really you talking. And if it isn't you talking, perhaps you had best say so.
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 11:14 AM
  #54  
BOB THE NAVIGATOR
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As usual Paulo has hit the nail on the
head. The only real question is whether
one is an asset or a liability to the
forum---a contributor or a detractor.

I rest my case !
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 11:19 AM
  #55  
xxx
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Well, if you rest your case, I move for a summary judgement due to your lack of evidence. You've never addressed your biases. You simply say (and this is a loose paraphrase) "valued members don't have the same rules as the rest of you folks." Why shouldn't the same rules apply to everyone? This site belongs to everyone.
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 11:37 AM
  #56  
And
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Bob,
I've just reread your posts and your attitude got me steamed all over again. I know you and Ed are buddies, and it's nice that you stick up for him, but you are being a stubborn old man. Paulo echoed your thoughts that Ed and Julie are such assets to this board that they should simply be exempt from the rules. Then you talk about credibility (something that you can't really talk about, given your own interests in selling your mapping services). I don't want to leave it to you to decide what is right and wrong. You don't have the credibility to be involved in this debate. Let's say I win this argument and, in the best possible world, Fodors decides to strictly police the boards to prevent people like you from using it to promote your business. I gain nothing financially. But I do preserve the integrity of the board. If I lose, and nothing changes, then I still gain nothing. According to my tally, the count for and against is still fairly close. You can claim that the case it closed, but I have a hard time agreeing with that
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 11:56 AM
  #57  
iamoutahere
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Wonder if xxx has a TV; guess not since he objects to a free service that may have ads. I think I follow his reasoning and will follow it. I won't answer any thing that asks for recommended airlines, cruiselines, hotels, restuarants, tour companies, websites and rental car companies, so you all will know I'm not on the take. If asked where to go and what to see I'll answer - get a guidebook but I wont mention names and titles. I won't say Email me directly for advice like BOB, Rex and Wes Fowler do. I'll keep my knowledge and experience to myself. I'll post anonymously so I can't be accused of being a travel agent or commission agent. But I won't have anything worthwile to say. Then I better write to Fodors or drop in their office to make sure they filter out anything that looks like it could be from a human being. No Als, Bobs, Mairas, Sheilas, Elviras, Wess, Neals just xxxs and zzzzzzs and toppers,
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 12:11 PM
  #58  
xxxx
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Well there's the most intelligent response yet. Sure I have a television. But I know when I'm watching an ad and when I'm watching a news/entertainment program. Sheesh. And I'm always going to listen to a recommendation on a place to spend my money. But if the "expert" is wearing big shoes and a yellow outfit and has a clown nose, I'm gonna wonder about his credibility when he recommends McDonalds. I think the funniest thing about your post is that you have an edu at the end of your alleged e-mail address. Heaven help us if you work for an institute of education. Because you are an idiot. I don't question the credibility of Elvira or Neal Sanders or Maira or some of the others that you mentioned. And I wouldn't question Ed's credibility if he didn't ALWAYS include his web site address in one way or another. Do yourself a favor. Type in twenj in the search engine and look at some of the posts dated prior to Oct. 31 when all of the fake Ed responses were apparently posted. Nine out of ten (and I'm being generous) include a not too subtle plug for his website. Thank god Bob Brown, who is a beloved longtime and highly respected Fodorite, had the guts to say that Ed et al were using this site for personal gain. There have been some decent arguments for allowing commercial posts on the board (I think we should open it up to everyone, if we're gonna allow a chosen few). But your argument is rubbish. Apples and Oranges.
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 12:20 PM
  #59  
Minnie
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O.K. folks, why don't we all follow Ed's enlightening suggestion about being constructive instead of destructive? I for one intend to follow Ed's example and call everyone with whom I disagree a "jackal", "jackass", "idiot" or "sicko". We should call these names positive Ed-isms.

First, all you commercial promoters, you are jackasses. This ain't the chamber of commerce where you all hold hands and support one another's businesses. It's an independent web site which you have chosen to use, against its rules, as a free target market to hawk your wares, you gutless jackals. If you want to advertise, contact Fodor's and discuss their going rates for advertising on their site. Oh wait, why should you? You're already doing so free of charge. Sickos.

The only people who are scattering here are the ones you so desperately hope will become your customers -- real travelers with no hidden profit motives. This site is becoming a loud, brawling street market full of vendors who are trying to outscream one another while all the customers have already gone elsewhere. You idiots.

If Margo at HelloEurope, Beth Marciel, MauiHeidi and all the other illustrious, profit-minded promoters were chased off this board for advertising their businesses, then get rid of Ed too, and while we're at it, Rex. They are engaging in the same type of commercial promotion and profiting directly by steering people to their businesses. Kudos from fellow promoters (or themselves in disguise) does not lend any legitimacy to their presence. Jackasses.
 
Old Nov 3rd, 2000, 01:15 PM
  #60  
xxxx
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Bravo!
 

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