Economical way to Travel from Lucene to Venice
 

We plan to travel from Lucerne to Venice on April 27th, 2013 and prefer to depart early in the morning. We are group of 6 adults and 1 toddler. Fare I am getting is on sbb.ch is 128 CHF per person, so for 6 adults it is going to be 768 CHF. As earlier, please advise if there is any cheaper way to get to Venice from Lucerne.

Lucern Sa, 27.04.13 dep 07:47 --> Milano Centrale arr 11:50 --> dep 12:05 Milano Centrale --> Venezia S. Lucia arr 14:40

On Trenitalia -> FrecciaBianca 9721 Milano Centrale 12:35 -> Venezia S. Lucia -> 15:10 Saturday 27/04/2013 is 19 Euro each (114 Euro), which I believe is a great price, but I am little skeptical to book before I get a connection itinerary from Lucerne - Milan Central.

Any advice is highly appreciated..

A few years ago I have bought the first class version of that exact direction using the nice Cisalpino for Lucerne-Milan. It's 3 hr to Milan plus 3 hr to Venice. We booked the non smoking compartment but it smelled like smoke on the Milan-Venice part. However I'm sure the newer Freccia Bianca train is much nicer.

I responded on how to book this on your other thread.

Trains are smoke free.

You can book that Lucerne-Milano timing for a total of 27CHF per person.

Go for it and don't wait for the offer to run out.

Kybourbon is right, all trains in Italy have now become 100% smoke free, there used to be some exceptions even after they went smoke free in 2005 but now all trains are smoke free. Thank god for that.

I have booked Milano Centrale 12:35 -> Venezia S. Lucia -> 15:10 Saturday 27/04/2013 for 19 Euro each for 6 adults.

Now, Luzern (07:47) - Milano Centrale (11:50 ) is available only under standard rate category which is 67€ each which is highly expensive. While booking this train at Smart rate of 22€, I received an error and when I tried again, smart rate was gone...:(

Please let me know if I can do anything to call customer service of Trenitalia or is there any benefit to try again and again with a possibility to get smart rate reflect again.

If there is no way get a smart rate, I have no option other than to book at standard rate of 67€ as I have to reach Milan before 12:35 PM so that I do not miss connection from Milan - Venice.

There must be a huge misunderstanding: you told us that you will buy a Swiss Pass. In this case Lucerne - Milan costs 17 EUR/pax if you stay in the Eurocity train up to Milan or 5 EUR if you change at Chiasso to a Milan bound regional train.

Can't remember where I said that. In Below discussion, I have mentioned I may go for 3 Days Flexi pass. Even I get flex pass it will be expired the day before (12 midnight) as the third free day of validity will be completed the day before.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-to-choose.cfm

If the day before is your last Swiss Pass day, go just up to Chiasso for free in the evening (trains until Lucerne dp 21.18) and sleep at Chiasso or Como instead of Lucerne.

The saver fares are selling out the closer you get to your dates. You may end up paying full fare (82chf).

It's possible to take a local train from Lucern to Arth-Goldau (6.30chf - 30 minutes) and switch to an EC train (don't know if any discounts are still available from Arth-Goldau). I think there are more EC trains passing through Arth-Goldau than Lucerne, but this close to your dates there might not be much discounts left. There is an EC train departs at 7:50 (arrives Milan at 10:50( and one at 8:16 (arrives Milan at 11:50).

"The saver fares are selling out the closer you get to your dates. You may end up paying full fare (82chf)." -

kybourbon: What Saver fares are you talking about and from what site (sbb.ch). Are you talking about smart/smart2 fares from trenitalia?

neckervd: I like this idea and thanks for the tip. At this time, from Chiasso to Milano Centrale the fare is 9 Euro Vs from Luzern to Milan is 67 Euros per person on Trenitalia.

neckervd: Looking hotels in Chiasso, Switzerland and search provides all of them are in Italy. The closest is 5 miles from Chiasso but in Italy. May be a silly question, but are we going to cross borders from Switzerland to Italy to get to the hotel and again cross borders from Italy to Switzerland to get to Chiasso train station for a train to Milan.

If that is a case, what the best way to commute in between Chiasso train station and Hotel.

There are 6 hotels around Chiasso railway station:
Hotel Touring, in front of Chasso railway station
Residence Como, at the Como citybus stop, 250 m from Chiasso railway station
Hotel Bahnhof, 200 m from Chiasso railway station
Hotel Garni Centro, 300 m from Chiasso railway station
Residence Tell, 600 m from Chiasso railway station
10 other hotels close to Como SG railway station
Have a look at
http://www.booking.com/searchresults.html?sid=2a2025142053890706f2cf1111d cdffc;dcid=1;ac_pageview_id=12ea5a662a8c0047;check in_monthday=26;checkin_year_month=2013-4;checkout_monthday=27;checkout_year_month=2013-4;class_interval=1;csflt={};dest_id=-2551615;dest_type=city;inac=0;offset=0;redirected_ from_city=0;redirected_from_landmark=0;review_scor e_group=empty;score_min=0;si=ai%2Cco%2Cci%2Cre%2Cd i;src=index;ss=Chiasso%2C%20Schweiz;ss_all=0;ssb=e mpty&lang=en-us

>>>kybourbon: What Saver fares are you talking about and from what site (sbb.ch). Are you talking about smart/smart2 fares from trenitalia?<<<

If you are looking at fares departing from Switzerland, they are called supersaver on the sbb.ch website. If purchasing online, you have to pick up in departing country.

Since you will be in Italy first, I guess you could buy a Smart fare and pick it up at one of the stations before going to Switzerland.

The Lucerne/Milan EC for the time you want is currently 53chf (= to 43€ or $55) on the Swiss site. Last week is was 27chf SuperSaver fare on the Swiss site, but has sold out.

I explained how to book the Supersaver fare on your other thread last week.

kybourbon - Very unfortunate. I was desperately looking for tickets (Lucerne - Milan) since last week and did not check your positing on how to book tickets from Lucerne - Milan on sbb.ch site.

Also I thought you are talking Rome - Zurich when you replied 'I responded on how to book this on your other thread' above on 'kybourbon on Mar 29, 13 at 1:50pm'.

Difference in tickets is soo much that I will have to travel night before to Chiasso railway station and take train to Milan from there.

neckervd...Thank you..I booked a hotel 'Arthotel Hotel Garni Centro' that is about 500 meters from the Chiasso main train station.

Now, I have a question that if I book tickets from Chiasso to Milan through trenitalia, then will I be able to pick tickets from Chiasso train station. A few days ago I called trenitalia and they said that they do not have any customer service/vending machines where we can retrieve tickets from if I buy online through trenitalia.

Another alternative she mentioned is to buy tickets from sbb.ch or any other Switzerland travel agent.

Is it possible to pick tickets from Chiasso train station if I book through trenitalia?

Thanks again.

kybourbon - I followed the the process you have mentioned in my other forum (Rome - Zurich) to get 53chf rates. I get a screen with a fare of 53 CHF, but when I proceed all the way to enter name ,age and DOB with card with None selected for Switzerland field (as I won't have any pass), then I get standard fare of 82 CHF and not 53 CHF.

Luzern - Milano Centrale
Sat, 27.04.13, 07:47 - 11:50 Hour

Don't worry. Just go to the ticket counter at Chiasso railway station(may be after arrival, if it's still open, or before breakfast) and buy your ticket to Milan.
It costs 17 CHF for EC trains
Chiasso dp 10.11 and 11.11 - Milano Centrale ar 10.50 resp 11.50
and 6.50 CHF for local trains
Chiasso dp 9.08 - Milano Centrale ar 9.50

Local people would take the local train Chiasso dp 10.16 up to Milano Porta Garibaldi and reach Milano Centrale from there by metro; but I guess that would be too complicated for you.

So I cant buy tickets online from Trentilia and get tickets at the chiasso railway station.

Hi kybourbon: Please let me know if you try to get ticket of 53 CHF (refer to my post: sm2707 on Apr 4, 13 at 12:51am) going all the way to purchase the ticket. I tried it today also and it still offers 53 CHF, but when I enter information to book a ticket then it shows 82 CHF.

Sorry, I imagine the discounted tickets are sold out by now. You can't purchase them at all when you get within a certain time frame (a couple of weeks before departure).

>>>Local people would take the local train Chiasso dp 10.16 up to Milano Porta Garibaldi and reach Milano Centrale from there by metro; but I guess that would be too complicated for you.<<<

There are local trains from Chiasso to Milan Centrale departing 8:06 (ar 8:50:) and 9:08 (ar 9:50) along with the two EC trains (one the OP was trying to book from Lucerne) that pass through Chiasso. Both the EC trains show as having 9€ super economy tickets available from Chiasso to Centrale on Trenitalia. If you decide to spend the night in Chiasso, you could go on and book the EC tickets on Trenitalia now. The local trains you would either have to buy at the station or perhaps they will show on Trenitalia 7 days from travel (R trains can only be purchased online 7 days in advance).

I just recommended the 9.08 train becuase it's cheap and must not be booked ahead. The 10.16 train with train change at Monza (may be easier than to the metro at PG) may be a good choice too.

Thanks, kybourbon. Because rates are so bumped up...I plan to stay at Chiasso the night before and then take train from Chiasso to Milan Centrale which is available at 9 Euros super economy tickets on Trenitalia. Before I buy tickets from Trenitalia, I want to confirm that I will be able to pick tickets from Chiasso train station. A few days ago I called trenitalia and they said that they do not have any customer service/vending machines where we can retrieve tickets from if I buy online through trenitalia website.

You are recommending train from Chiasso train station to Milan Central or Luzern to Milan Central with a change in Monza and from which website (sbb.ch)?

http://fahrplan.sbb.ch/bin/query.exe/en?OK#focus
http://www.muoversi.regione.lombardi...oniViaggio.do#

>>>Before I buy tickets from Trenitalia, I want to confirm that I will be able to pick tickets from Chiasso train station.<<<

My understanding is you are going to be in Italy before you go to Switzerland according to your other earlier thread re: travel Rome/Zurich. Pick them up in Milan or Rome on your way to Switzerland.

...do you know how long the queues usually are at Roma Termini or Milano Centrale?
In my opinion, the ticket counter at Chiasso is the best solution. The ticket for the EC trains from Chiasso (only) to Milan could also be bought in advance at Lucerne, but it would cost more.

kybourbon: Sorry about the confusion. I will be landing into Zurich -> Spend a few days in Switzerland -> Train from Luzern to Italy -> Italy back to Zurich for flight back home.

So my question still stands, I buy tickets from Trenitalia, I want to confirm that I will be able to pick tickets from Chiasso train station. Please let know if you are aware. Thank you for all your help.

neckervd: Tickets from Chiasso to Milan options -> I buy from Trenitalia.com or I buy tickets from Chiasso or I will buy from Luzern as one of the options you have provided. I will that in mind to avoid long queues.

Tickets on Trenitalia online is cheapest: 9 euro as compared to other options. If I buy tickets from Trenitalia now, will I be able to pick tickets from Chiasso train station.

neckervd: Please let me know how I can take benefit of the links provided by you below.

http://fahrplan.sbb.ch/bin/query.exe/en?OK#focus
http://www.muoversi.regione.lombardi...oniViaggio.do#

>>>Tickets on Trenitalia online is cheapest: 9 euro as compared to other options.<<<

The other options, such as the local R train to Milan Centrale, are only 5.25€ walk up price. The R train seems to depart hourly from Chiasso to Milan and take 45 minutes. The S trains are the same price, but aren't going to Centrale.

>>>If I buy tickets from Trenitalia now, will I be able to pick tickets from Chiasso train station.<<<

No. I thought you were going to be in Italy first. You would need to pick them up in Italy.

I think I have another option for you though. Italiarail appears to have an electronic ticket. The price for the EC trains departing Chiasso on 4/27 at 10:11 and arriving Milan at 10:50 is $13 (that would be about 9€). The EC train that departs Chiasso at 11:11 and arrives Milan at 11:50 is showing the same price. Italiarail charges a $5 fee to book, but I believe that is per order, not per ticket. This price is showing if I request 1 adult ticket (also showing a $13 for 1st class). When I switch to 6 tickets, the supereconomy fare disappears. When I switch to 2 tickets, they are still available for 2nd class, but not first. Don't know if it's worth fooling with and paying the $5 booking fee if you have to make multiple bookings.

http://www.italiarail.com/

I didn't to a complete walk through to make sure you didn't need to pick up the ticket at a kiosk, but it appears you don't. This is what it says after selecting the train.

Ticket: CHIASSO - MILANO C.LE
Train Number: 13
From: CHIASSO
To : MILANO C.LE
Departure Date: 04/27/13 10:11
Arrival Date: 04/27/13 10:50
1st Class, 1 Adult
Adult, US $13.00
Fare: Super Economy
This is an electronic ticket (e-ticket) and no paper printed ticket is needed to ride the train. You will present the “PNR” to the conductor while on the train.

Official text:

"PURCHASE
You can buy a ticket with the ticketless procedure
on this site by choosing the trip proposal and inquiring the availability of one or more seats.
If buying on-line, after checking on seat/s availability, the system will ask the customer for his/her user-id and password for authentication.
Then you will be asked for:
- identification information;
- the payment of the sum through credit card.
After payment, the system will provide the Booking Code (PNR) and the Booking Change Code (CP) along with the carriage number and seat number/s.
For on-line purchases, the system will send a confirmation e-mail with all information on the transaction.

TICKET ISSUING
The ticket issuing of Italian Eurostar, Intercity and Intercity Plus trains takes place on board the train. The staff on board will issue the Ticketless ticket without requiring payment after checking the PNR stated by the customer with their list of expected passengers.
Should the customer have lost or forgotten the PNR number but be able to provide proof of identity (using a valid piece of identification) that corresponds with the details on the list, the staff on board may decide that the conditions exist for the issuing of the ticket and thus proceed with the Ticketless issuing (without payment request).

Under all other circumstances, the customer will have to pay for the ticket and the extra charge foreseen.
In this case, the customer may request a full refund from the Call Center phone reservations service, and the cost of the ticket purchased on-line will be credited back onto the relative credit card.

TICKET COLLECTION
Customers who originally decided to use the Ticketless purchase method are not allowed to collect or print their ticket.
Back to list

RESERVATION CHANGES
From the time of ticket purchase until the departure of the reserved train, customers can make an unlimited number of changes, in accordance with the tarifs, free of charge - via the Internet or the Call Center reservations service. From the departure of the train until 1 hour after the departure of the train originally reserved, ticket can changed at ticket offices only. "

All that concerns EC trains only. Until now, sm 2707 was unfortunately not in a position to tell us which train he intends to take.

neckervd - Is the info you copied from Italiarail or Trenitalia? It only mentions Italian trains, not the EC train.

Thank you, kybourbon and neckervd.

kybourbon: neckervd compiled above information from Trenitalia.

http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...f90aRCRD&let=a

The ticketless sale option is reserved to customers who travel on Eurostar Italia Trains, Eurostar Italia Alta Velocità, Tbiz, TrenOK, Intercity, Intercity Plus, IC Night and Express (seats, couchettes and WL) for all destinations (also intermediate) in 1st and 2nd class. Ticket purchase with the ticketless procedure is possible for the same offers for which sale through the Internet is allowed, provided that: - in the case of IC, ICN and Express train seating, customers request the 3 euro booking; - the request regards only one train of the chosen category; - the request is made starting from two months before and up to train's departure. The international Intercity and Eurocity trains are not included. The ticketless solution is only valid for the train and the day that have been booked. The cancellation option for arm's length contracts does not apply to this negotiation, pursuant to paragraph b) Article 7 of Legislative Decree no. 185 of 22 May 1999.

SM2707 Comments: based on above information, If I book online through Trenitalia and get PNR number (which I received when I book other routes from Trenitalia.com), I won't have to get printed tickets at the train station.

Exception is Eurocity trains where I have to get printed tickets from ticket counter or vending machine if I buy from Trenitalia which ofcourse wont' be possible if I get EC train from Luzern to Milan or Chiasso to Milan. Correct?

Right. That was why I questioned neckervd posting all that. It simply doesn't apply to your question or the EC trains because Trenitalia requires pick up in Italy at a self service kiosk for trains between Switzerland and Italy.

That is why I suggested booking on Italiarail. They seem to provide a PNR for EC trains so you wouldn't have to pick up the tickets at all. They were showing tickets on the EC train from Chiasso for $13 if you selected two travelers which is close to the 9€ super economy price on Trenitalia. You may not be able to get all your tickets at the cheapest price, but I would try booking in groups of two. Since they were showing $13 tickets in both 1st and 2nd class on the early EC train. I would try booking those. They are not showing discounts from Lucerne.

kybourbon and neckervd: First of all thank you both of you for helping me out. I don't know how many mistakes a newbie would make if one doesn't get help and guidance from experts like you both....:)

I think I have all sorted out. Again, I am open to advise based on my plan given below:

I have been deciding on what swiss pass to get and based on detailed research, breakdown of prices and analysis and I realized I should get 8 days consecutive pass for CHF 334.00 each even though I will be in Switzerland for 6 days. I will not be able to use it completely for 8 days but this will reduce many headaches (I have drafted a few below) and I will be able to use one of the free seventh day to travel from Luzern to Chiasso for free and then Chiasso to Milan is about 17 CHF.

I was first planning to get 4-Days Swiss flexi pass for CHF 268.00 each but when I did math, it turned out that it is much better and may prove to be more economical if I buy 8 days consecutive pass as I won’t' have to spend on any Half Fare for non free travel days. However, I understand I will have to pay extra for mountains (Jangfrau/Titlis) but that stands out for any pass I get.

Basic math: 334.00 - 268.00 = 66 CHF - Savings on half price fares - Fare from Luzern to Chiasso = Negative CHF..:)

Benefit of getting 8 days consecutive pass:

1) Train from Luzern to Chiasso free of cost on April 27th, 2013.
2) No check out from the hotel the day before from Lucern and hassle of checking in only for one night.
3) Don't have to get on long queues to get half fare tickets so it will save a lot of time.
4) Flexibility consecutive card provides to change plans on the fly, to board any tram, train or any swiss transportation system, free admission to museums with only a few exceptions.

Now, I only have two questions:

I still plan to take same train from Luzern to Chiasso (that will be free with a Swiss pass) Luzern - Chiasso || 07:47 - 11:01 and same train continues to Milan Central and reach Milan at 11:50 hour.

Luzern - Chiasso - Milano Centrale
Sat, 27.04.13, 07:47 - 11:01 - 11:50 Hour

1) Is it preferred or mandatory to reserve seats from Luzern to Chiasso as it's a long journey of about 3 hours.
2) Could we continue on the same train if I buy tickets online on sbb.ch from Chiasso to Milan.

I again truly appreciate all all help and guidance.

Thank you.

It's interesting to see the cultural differencies. Local people at Chiasso would just arrive at the railway station about 10 min (or less) prior to the train's departure, buy a ticket at the counter and board the train.

Overseas people spend hours and hours loading down all possible and impossible internet sites, ask tons of questions in travel forums and spend so hours and hours which, compared with normal salaries of working people, would probably correspond to some hundred USD.

Kybourbon: I tried to book a 9 EUR EC-ticket Como SG - Milano C as well as a 14 EUR EC-ticket Chiasso - Milano C (always for train 13) on the http://orario.trenitalia.com/ website and it perfectly worked (I stopped just before entering the credit card datas, of course).

>>>Kybourbon: I tried to book a 9 EUR EC-ticket Como SG - Milano C as well as a 14 EUR EC-ticket Chiasso - Milano C (always for train 13) on the http://orario.trenitalia.com/ website and it perfectly worked (I stopped just before entering the credit card datas, of course).<<<

That isn't the point or issue at all. You can buy both on Trenitalia, you just can't retrieve both. Como is in Italy so not at all what is being discussed. The OP is trying to book Chiasso which is in Switzerland. Yes, you can book Como on Trenitalia and not need to pick up tickets that are entirely within Italy only (you get an e-mail code to use). For international tickets on the EC train between Switzerland and Italy, you can also buy online from Trenitalia, you just can't retrieve it unless you pick it up in Italy. You do not get a code to use on the train. You get a code to pick up the ticket at a self service kiosk in an Italian train station.

sm2707 - There is a sale on the Swiss Pass (4 day pass) where you got an extra day free. Is that enough travel days for you to work with your plans? It's 5 consecutive days so it might not work depending on your itinerary. If you are staying in Zurich any, it might benefit you to combine the Swiss 4+1 pass with a Zurich pass which gives you transport around Zurich including a boat ride and museums. There is a 24 hour card and a 72 hour card.

http://www.swisstravelsystem.com/en/...ss-4-1-en.html

http://www.zuerich.com/en/Visitor/zuerich-card.html