eastern europe
 

My husband and I are planning a trip to Prague(3days) Budapest(3days) Krakow(4 days) and Warsaw(1 day) -June2012. Is this enough time? Would you recommend a tour-I would rather do on our own. Any suggestions. Thanks Arlene

I've done Prague and Budapest. They were very easy to do without being on a tour, and I didn't speak one word of Czech or Hungarian beyond "hello" and "thank you." I get the idea Poland is similar - very accessible. You can almost certainly do all of these by train as well; I did Prague-Vienna-Budapest by train. Very easy.

"Is this enough time?" isn't a question anyone can answer but you. I will say that like most other tourists, I never got out of Prague in the Czech Republic, and I hope to go back and see more of the countryside and the other towns, because it seems few tourists stray from Prague. The most popular non-Prague destination in Czech Republic seems to be Cesky Krumlov but some of the other towns to the east look interesting to me.

I'd make a list of what you are interested in and want to see in each place as well as possible day trips and use that as a guide to plan how much time in each place. I also recommend picking up a Rick Steves book (many on this board are not fans of his) on Eastern Europe. Rick's PBS specials on European Travel can all be seen on Hulu on the web for free as well; there are specials that cover all of the places you mention.

You can easily do this trip on your own without a guided tour, either by train or driving.

If the days alloted in each place are actual full days and not nights (ie 3 nights = 2 full days) then the time you've given to each is fine. Assuming you're travelling to Auschwitz from Krakow at some point, so allow a full day for this. Warsaw might want 2 full days, but 1.5 (after arriving from Krakow) would also be fine.

There are some great day trips to be taken from Prague (eg Kutna Hora) so if you plan on that as well, add an extra day to Prague.

Are you factoring in additional travel time or does your time in each place include travel. Are you counting arrival day which will only really be a half day by the time you get from the airport to your hotel and check in. If it does then you do not have enough time for all 4 cities. Eliminate Warsaw since it's only for a day and it will take a couple of hours to get there from Krakow.

I'm not sure that you could find a tour that goes to only those 4 places in 11 days.

I would definitely do the trip independently and go where you want to go and see what you want to see. I'm going back to Poland this fall. I was in Krakow for 3 days last year and didn't get enough of it. Going back for 5 more days plus Warsaw, Poznan, Wroclaw.

Andrew - you should definitely see more of the Czech Republic. I spent a week and a half in Moravia (southern CR) last year and loved it. Beautiful towns and scenery and wonderful, friendly people. Most people did not speak English except in hotels and the TIs but that was not a deterrent.

Yes, adrienne, I'm thinking about going back. I've done a few quick potential trip plans for Czech Republic plus Poland myself. I'm guessing Warsaw is on arlene4's agenda at all because it's a convenient departure city to fly out of at the end of the trip. Krakow isn't as easy to get a good connection out of back to the US vs. Warsaw. It will probably be on my agenda for the same reason.

thanks for your replies-days are full days -does not include travel days

You cannot "drive" your route unless you want a huge drop charge for your rental, and some rental agencies have prohibitions about hiring a car in Central Europe and taking the car to Prague.

I prefer Budapest and Prague to Krakow. Three nights in Prague is too little. If you're planning day trips from Krakow and not the others, the allocation makes sense (drop Warsaw altogether).

> Would you recommend a tour-I would rather do on our own.

Go on your own! No need to take a tour if you prefer independent travel.

>Prague (3days) Budapest (3days) Krakow (4 days) and Warsaw (1 day) -June2012. Is this enough time?

Whether your allocation of time is "right" or not depends on what you want to see and experience. When I was there 20 years ago, I allocated my time a bit differently, but I can't say whether your interests or preferred pace of travel are or are not like mine.

You might consider cutting your time in Krakow but a day (or even 2 days) to make more time elsewhere. IMO Krakow deserves a minimum of 2 days (1 for the camps and 1 for the city); a 3rd day gives you a much wider range of options and allows a more leisurely pace.

I thought Warsaw deserved 1.5 to 2 days. I thought Prague and Budapest each deserved at least 3, if not 4, days.

The good news is that you will be visiting some very interesting places, so however you spread your time, you'll have lots of wonderful opportunities. Enjoy!

Andrew, if you return to Czech Republic, I suggest staying overnight in Karlovy Vary, Cesky Krumlov & Telc. We did that 2 years ago & loved every place. KV is very different from Prague, CK & Telc.

arlene4, you definitely do not need a tour. You can do this trip independently. An easy day trip from Prague is Kutna Hora. While in Krakow, make sure you see the salt mines at Wielicka.

Just so you know this is not easter eruope (that would be Russia and the Ukraine).

All of the places you're going have a strong tourist infrastructure and there is no problem doing it on your own.

However, - you are really spreading yourselves too thin. Once you allow time for transportation you will only be spending 1.5 or 2 days in each place - unless you have a 15/16 trip versus a 10 day one.

These are full days in each place. Add extra day for travel.I'm thinking of adding extra day to Prague. Would you recommend air travel or overnight train travel? thanks

Night trains are not for everyone. I happen to like them.

What you need to watch out for are trains that make lots of stops and middle of the night transfers. There's a Prague to Budapest train leaving at 00:04, transferring at 7:40 (10 minute transfer) so that would be OK. But this train makes lots of stops.

Budapest to Krakow - you have to watch out for middle of the night transfers in Katowice; some trains have transfers, some do not. The problem with this night train is that it makes about 15 stops and there would be a tendency to wake up when the train stops.

Suggest a day train or flying. There's no point in saving a day if you're too tired to make use of it.

There are cheapo flights in Central Europe - go googling. The trains are slow and likely to cost just as much -- there's no high-speed rail yet in the former Iron Curtain countries.

thanks for your replies. After reading, on this sight, I am beginning to think -to eleminate Budapest and just concentrate on Czech Republic and Poland for 1 week each. Is this a better idea and save the rest for another trip. Thanks

Arlene we spent five nights in Prague, one in Cesky Krumlov, one in Olomouc and four in Kraków. We had a car. My trip report with photos is below (chapters one through five). That might give you some ideas. I would keep to those two countries on this trip. Driving is easy. We had maps and a GPS that worked great for us. Have a great time!

http://www.travelswithmaitaitom.com/...nice_2008.html

((H))

You could fly into Budapest, train to Prague (7 hours direct), train to Krakow (8-9 hours with changes) and then on to Warsaw. But it looks like you can fly direct from Budapest to Prague in about an hour (figure 3 hours after you add in airport arrival/departure, etc.). Ditto for Prague to Krakow. So you wouldn't even have to waste an entire travel day for each change of city. If you just want to see the big cities, what you originally proposed seems very doable.

Or, you could choose to see more of Czech Republic and Poland than just the big cities - maybe train between them and stop at smaller cities in between and do those extra stops instead of spending time in Budapest.

Budapest and Prague are both very worth seeing. Expect mobs of tourists in high season especially in Prague, though.

<< concentrate on Czech Republic and Poland >>

Yes! Yes!

I loved my 2 weeks in the CR last year and my few days in Krakow. As I research my upcoming Poland trip I'm finding so many interesting things to do in Krakow and the area. I've booked a private guide for 2 days in Krakow - one day to see the wooden churches outside the city and the other day to do the Jewish quarter, synagogues, Schindler Factory and Cloth Hall.

In Poland the trains are very slow so you won't be able to do much outside the Krakow area unless you take a bus to see Zakopane or Auschwitz. The Salt Mine is just outside Krakow so easy to get to and very interesting. If you've seen castles I'd skip Wawel - you can go to the cathedral and walk around the hill but inside there isn't much unless you've never been inside a castle before and seeing the castle takes a lot of time.

I'm the type of traveler who would prefer to visit fewer places and see more of each place so I definitely applaud your plan to eliminate one city.

I've been to all of the above ( but we travel slow so spend more time in each) but if I had limited time I would do Prague and Budapest and cut out Poland.

We liked Krakow, but it is a small city and can easily be done in a day and not really thrilling. It is certainly not in the same class as Budapest and Prague.

The trains in Poland are HORRIBLE...worse than Morocco or anywhere we have been and tend to be VERY crowded. We had a nice train in from Vienna ( NEW) but it was quite depressing to train into Poland ( horrid, sad infrastucture and stations) and I hear all the trains are more like the Polish one we headed back on.

We loved Budapest so much ( even in the rain) that we are going back in August to celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary at the Four Seasons there. I'd go back to Prague in a second ( despite the crowds even in fall).

I have many Polish friends, so was a bit disappointed in Poland, even though parts of Krakow were lovely, not thrilling.Luckily we ran into a dumpling festival and that helped make it interesting.

I'm with WTnow to this degree -- Prague and Budapest over Krakow, and it's not really close.

To Arlene: You've chosen to emphasize the two lesser cities (Krakow and Warsaw) of your four at the expense of Budapest which is if not #1 then #1A of the ones you mentioned. Not getting that. If you go to Prague and CR for a week and Budapest for a week, you'll not run out of things to do and you can explore Transylvania, which has more than a few charms.

Moreover "Poland" is large -- it is the size of New Mexico, which is the 5th largest state in the US. Because it lacks US quality infrastructure, you cannot "do" Poland in a week. You can visit Warsaw and Krakow and some of the nearby areas, but getting a sense of the country as a whole would be difficult because you'd see nothing of the central part (Lodz, Wroclaw, Poznan) and would miss Gdansk, which, although small, has such a history that it is worth as much time as Krakow and more than Warsaw.

I loved all of these cities, but if I had to choose only 2, I preferred Prague and Krakow. But that's just me! People have very different interests and preferences.

arlene4; You can do the exact itinerary you suggested by tour. As independent travelers, we have done six tours, but twenty six others to Europe, driving on our own. This tour we took in the early 90's is an independant tour, with a choice of hotels, breakfast, half city tour, train tickets and air fare within Europe. The other days you are on your own. A consideration for your trip is, do you intend to return. If not this tour might fit your needs of visiting these four cities. While we visited a few different cities for 12 nights, three nights in four cities, at the time it was perfect for us. www.tradescotours.com You can also visit this site for downloads of these cities. www.inyourpocket.com Richard

P.S. I'm with 'kja'. We have been to Praguge three times, Krakow twice and trying to plan a quick three night trip next year to Krakow. We loved Budapest, but do not have a need to return. As 'kla' said, different interests, ALL valid

thanks again-Has anyone stayed at Marriott courtyard in Flora(Lucemburska Street 46)?

Adrienne, did your time in Moravia include a trip to Moravsky Krumlov to see the Mucha Slav Epic paintings? We are going to be there August 17 and I am trying to find out if the paintings will be there too, or if they are back in Prague in the continuing saga of which city they should wind up in.

Also did you go to any of the wineries in the Mikulov area? Any in particular that you would recommend? Would love to get more recommendations on that area. Thanks.

Serious divergence of opinions here. Having visited all of these places last year, imho Budapest was by far the best! Krakow was a great place to visit but can't imagine spending more than 2 full days there. Prague was nice too but again Budapest was the absolute highlight!

But to each his own I suppose.

arlene4, to get back to your own question - friends have stayed in the Marriott Courtyard Flora (ie NOT the one out at the airport!) and like it. It's a Marriott, so you know what you're getting there, backs on to a cemetery (but it's quite pretty - odd to say but it's known for its art nouveau monuments/stones), but for my preference it's too far from things I want to see/visit in terms of walking. Whilst there's nothing wrong with the Prague Metro (validate your ticket!), I prefer to walk in Prague as you discover more, even if you just follow your nose. Would you consider the Ibis Old Town as an alternative hotel? There are plenty of other hotels right in the Old Town Square, but this is a 5min walk away ie good location, standard Ibis and might even have a better price (check web specials) than the Marriott.

Arlene - unless you're staying at the Marriott using points, and need to economize, I would agree to stay in Prague 1 (central city). I stayed in Prague 6 and the tram into town wasn't bad but would have preferred to stay more central if my budget had allowed it.

Julie - I'm still kicking myself that I completely forgot about those paintings. I hadn't known about them until I watched the video at the Mucha museum in Prague and never added them to my itinerary.

There is a poster who did go to see them and reported back. I thought she had posted on my TR but I guess I posted on her thread and can't remember her screen name. Do a search and you'll find the thread where she mentioned them. Although that was last fall (if I remember correctly) so they may have moved but I doubt it.

People in the CR did tell me to go to wineries but never mentioned any in particular and I didn't see any signs for wineries so I didn't visit any. I enjoy drinking wine but visiting a winery is not high on my list so I didn't do this.

I would not miss seeing Telc; it was a wonderful small town with the best town square I've seen yet. Another poster, kwoo, also went to Telc and gave it thumbs up too. Click on my name to read my TR from last year.

Here are my photos if you want to see what Telc looks like.

http://modigliani.shutterfly.com/cze...kowfrankfurtpa

arlene4,
I've skimmed over the posts so may have missed something. Are you planning on going to Telc? I agree with Adrienne that you should not miss Telc. It is small but so pretty and quiet & peaceful that it was one of our highlights of our trip. The main square is one of the prettiest I've ever seen. We did go to a winery that the owner of our pension in Prague recommended. It is located in Znojomo & we had a tour of the wine cellar. The owner is very friendly. It took us about one hour (maybe 1.5 hours) from Telc to get there. We stayed overnight one night in Telc, so had time to visit the winery in Znojomo, tour the castle in Telc, walk around, eat, etc. There are 2 ponds on either side of the main square that just lovely & so peaceful & picturesque.
If you click on my name, you can read my trip report. Unfortunately, I don't know how to create a link to my TR like some posters do.

I also love Krakow. I would definitely condense your trip to one or two countries. We like seeing the main cities AND the smaller cities/towns. In 2003 we spent 10 days in Prague & Krakow, in addition to staying in a castle in Poland near Ukraine (Krasicyn Castle). In 2009 we spent about 12 days in the Czech Republic only: Prague, Telc, Cesky Krumlov, Karlovy Vary & Kutna Hora.

We trained from Prague to Krakow & back & didn't think the train was bad, like a previous poster thought. We felt safe; it was crowded, though. It was my first time traveling by train so I have nothing else to compare it to.

Julie,
just realized you are the poster who inquired about wineries in Moravia. We did visit a winery in Znojomo in 2009. The owner of our pension in Prague recommended it to us. I don't remember the name off the top of my head, but you can click on my name to read my trip report. I think I go into more detail about the winery & its name. Hope this helps.

Trains on the mainlines in those countries are quite good - but sideline trains that few tourists would take can be third worldish IME - but the trains between OP's towns are up to0 snuff and as always my experience on decades of riding trains in Europe in general makes highly recommend first class, especially in Eastern Europe as the difference between classes here is greater IME than in western Europe. And if doing those by train look into the European East Railpass good on trains in Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland and Austria. Great sites for lots of great info on Eastern European trains and passes check out these fab IMO sites - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

and between those cities there are overnight trains so you save a night's hotel cost and arrive in the next city in the morning - saving daylight travel time and IMO the scenery in these countries in between those cities is rather ho-hum unless deteriorating detritus of heavy industry extant from commie days excites you.

Thanks to everyone that replied. We want to do CK and Telc. Would like to add wine tours too. Will probably hire a driver for transportation. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Arlene

Here's who I used for transport within Prague. Others on this board have used Mike and he gets good reports every time.

http://mike-chauffeur.cz/