Am I utterly insane? Is this impossible? South of France itinerary help!
Jul 23rd, 2012, 11:34 AM
#1
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Am I utterly insane? Is this impossible? South of France itinerary help!
I am planning a trip for my 62 y/o mother and myself in September. Five days will be spent exploring Provence/Riviera, with the sixth ending in Perpignan to take train to Barcelona. We'll be taking a train from Paris to Marseilles and renting a car there. This is the rough sketch of our itinerary so far:
Day one:
Arrive in Marseilles, pick up car, lunch in Marseilles, drive to Arles. Stay in Arles.
Day two:
Drive to Avignon, check out St. Remy de Provence and if time, Roussillion. Return and stay in Arles.
Day three: (I know I need a lot of help with this one!)
Two options -- Option 1:
Drive to Antibes and Nice, stopping in St. Tropez for lunch, returning and staying in Le Lavandou
OR Option 2:
Drive to Nice, stopping in Antibes, somehow fitting in Monaco, staying over in Nice.
Day four:
Drive to Aix-en-Provence, staying there, and fitting in Cassis during the day.
Day five:
Drive to Carcassonne, checking out St. Marie de la Mer and Montsegur, staying in Languedoc-Roussillon
Day six:
Drive to Perpignan, return car, train to BCN.
Thanks for the feedback! I need it!
Day one:
Arrive in Marseilles, pick up car, lunch in Marseilles, drive to Arles. Stay in Arles.
Day two:
Drive to Avignon, check out St. Remy de Provence and if time, Roussillion. Return and stay in Arles.
Day three: (I know I need a lot of help with this one!)
Two options -- Option 1:
Drive to Antibes and Nice, stopping in St. Tropez for lunch, returning and staying in Le Lavandou
OR Option 2:
Drive to Nice, stopping in Antibes, somehow fitting in Monaco, staying over in Nice.
Day four:
Drive to Aix-en-Provence, staying there, and fitting in Cassis during the day.
Day five:
Drive to Carcassonne, checking out St. Marie de la Mer and Montsegur, staying in Languedoc-Roussillon
Day six:
Drive to Perpignan, return car, train to BCN.
Thanks for the feedback! I need it!
Jul 23rd, 2012, 12:11 PM
#3
Yes, you should do your coastal stuff first and just use the commuter train or the bus system. Get the car only when you are ready to drive back away from the coast.
Another possibility: take the train from Paris to Avignon and pick up the car there.
Another possibility: take the train from Paris to Avignon and pick up the car there.
Jul 23rd, 2012, 12:26 PM
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This itinerary does not work - you will spend most of your time in the car (or in the train which is not better).
For my taste, too many destinations in such short time.
I love the Cote d'Azur, but better skip it. It deserves more than four hours (at least four days).
You are undestimating travelling times.
>>>Drive to Avignon, check out St. Remy de Provence and if time, Roussillion. Return and stay in Arles.<<<
That simply does not work. You need a whole day just for Avignon (1 hour to get into the city, 2 hours for the papal palace and the rest for lunch, strolling through town and getting out of it). St. Remy itsself is not interesting at all - it is Les Antiques, Glanum, Les Baux and Moulin Daudet - locations that are some kilometers away and require driving. BTW, scenic drives are part of the fun.
Roussillion including Gordes and Abbaye de Senanaque is full daytrip from Arles - you cannot not do in within 2 hours.
Check www.viamichelin.com for driving times and add 30 minutes for finding parking, navigating through towns etc.
For my taste, too many destinations in such short time.
I love the Cote d'Azur, but better skip it. It deserves more than four hours (at least four days).
You are undestimating travelling times.
>>>Drive to Avignon, check out St. Remy de Provence and if time, Roussillion. Return and stay in Arles.<<<
That simply does not work. You need a whole day just for Avignon (1 hour to get into the city, 2 hours for the papal palace and the rest for lunch, strolling through town and getting out of it). St. Remy itsself is not interesting at all - it is Les Antiques, Glanum, Les Baux and Moulin Daudet - locations that are some kilometers away and require driving. BTW, scenic drives are part of the fun.
Roussillion including Gordes and Abbaye de Senanaque is full daytrip from Arles - you cannot not do in within 2 hours.
Check www.viamichelin.com for driving times and add 30 minutes for finding parking, navigating through towns etc.
Jul 23rd, 2012, 12:43 PM
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I agree. You're all over the map in an oftentimes nonsensical manner, with no time to do anything but drive-bys.
I would pick two bases, one on the Riviera and one in the Bouches-du-Rhône and do a FEW SHORT daytrips from each. And I'd drop Monaco. And I'd take the train into Avignon and start there. No need to pay the extra to get to Marseilles, just to get in a car and drive back the other direction.
I would pick two bases, one on the Riviera and one in the Bouches-du-Rhône and do a FEW SHORT daytrips from each. And I'd drop Monaco. And I'd take the train into Avignon and start there. No need to pay the extra to get to Marseilles, just to get in a car and drive back the other direction.
Jul 23rd, 2012, 12:49 PM
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If you go to the Riviera, I would not rent a place in Arles, but rather something nearer to Nice. I would not recommend Nice, as it's a large city. One of my favorites is Juan-les-Pins, a nice town on the sandy beach (Nice is just rocks) about 10 minutes outside of Nice.
I also would not be driving to Carcasonne. The old town is at the top of the hill, and is, essentially, pedestrians only.
I also would not be driving to Carcasonne. The old town is at the top of the hill, and is, essentially, pedestrians only.
Jul 23rd, 2012, 01:04 PM
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My wife & I have spent 34 weeks vacationing in Provence & the Cote d'Azur. I agree with the others - you don't have a grasp of time & distances in that region.
Other things to consider:
-Shops close for lunch. So if you & your mom roll into Aix around noon for a little shopping - you'll have to wait for about 2 1/2 until the shops re-open.
- Shops close on Sundays with few exceptions (St Remy, Les Baux, and Gordes are exceptions), so shops will be closed then too. Same for Monday mornings.
- You can't pack as much into a day in Europe as you can in the US - if you are from the US.
As traveller1959 stated - visiting these sites will take more time than you expect. Getting from site to site will take more time also. You're spending most of you time "getting there" instead of "being there".
Eliminate at least half the places you want to visit. The biggest "no brainer" is to skip the Cote d'Azur completely and just stay in Provence.
I would take the TGV directly to Arles or Avignon - not Marseilles. I think Arles & Avignon are both a lot more interesting than Marseilles.
This is what I would do:
Day 1 - take the TGV to Arles, have lunch, and visit Arles.
Day 2 - drive through the Luberon, visiting several hilltop villages (Gordes, Roussillon, Bonnieux, + beautiful countryside)
Day 3 - Visit Avignon for the day.
Day 4 - Visit St Remy in the AM (before the day-trippers arrive), Alpilles, Eygalieres, and Les Baux in the later afternoon after the day-trippers leave.
OR
visit the Pont du Gard, Uzes, and Castillon du Gard.
Day 5 - drive to Cassis for a 4 hr visit - have lunch there at the port. Drive to Aix after lunch, visit and stay overnight. Not on a Sunday.
Day 6 - Visit the farmer's market in the AM if it is Tues, Thurs, or Sat. Drive towards Perpignan - stopping for a 3 hr visit in Carcassonne along the way. Visit Perpignan in the late afternoon.
Stu Dudley
Other things to consider:
-Shops close for lunch. So if you & your mom roll into Aix around noon for a little shopping - you'll have to wait for about 2 1/2 until the shops re-open.
- Shops close on Sundays with few exceptions (St Remy, Les Baux, and Gordes are exceptions), so shops will be closed then too. Same for Monday mornings.
- You can't pack as much into a day in Europe as you can in the US - if you are from the US.
As traveller1959 stated - visiting these sites will take more time than you expect. Getting from site to site will take more time also. You're spending most of you time "getting there" instead of "being there".
Eliminate at least half the places you want to visit. The biggest "no brainer" is to skip the Cote d'Azur completely and just stay in Provence.
I would take the TGV directly to Arles or Avignon - not Marseilles. I think Arles & Avignon are both a lot more interesting than Marseilles.
This is what I would do:
Day 1 - take the TGV to Arles, have lunch, and visit Arles.
Day 2 - drive through the Luberon, visiting several hilltop villages (Gordes, Roussillon, Bonnieux, + beautiful countryside)
Day 3 - Visit Avignon for the day.
Day 4 - Visit St Remy in the AM (before the day-trippers arrive), Alpilles, Eygalieres, and Les Baux in the later afternoon after the day-trippers leave.
OR
visit the Pont du Gard, Uzes, and Castillon du Gard.
Day 5 - drive to Cassis for a 4 hr visit - have lunch there at the port. Drive to Aix after lunch, visit and stay overnight. Not on a Sunday.
Day 6 - Visit the farmer's market in the AM if it is Tues, Thurs, or Sat. Drive towards Perpignan - stopping for a 3 hr visit in Carcassonne along the way. Visit Perpignan in the late afternoon.
Stu Dudley
Jul 23rd, 2012, 01:31 PM
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Thinking that with a list like this, you're trying to inherit from the will NOW from the woman who gave you life.
She's only 62 so actuarially she has about 20-25 years left. That means she can return to France, and you're presumably at least 15-18 years younger (or far more) so that means you can too. Why try to kill the poor woman? Why jam so much in?
Relax. Try again. Listen to Stu and St Cirq, who know France well . . .
She's only 62 so actuarially she has about 20-25 years left. That means she can return to France, and you're presumably at least 15-18 years younger (or far more) so that means you can too. Why try to kill the poor woman? Why jam so much in?
Relax. Try again. Listen to Stu and St Cirq, who know France well . . .
Jul 23rd, 2012, 02:39 PM
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Thanks, everyone, for your advice! I'll try to follow it and cut the Riviera out completely. Stu, your sample itinerary seems pretty perfect.
The only reason we were going in through Marseilles was because I was going to rent the car there. Is it hard to find car rental companies in Arles or Avignon?
Also, another question. From Stu's sample itinerary I assume I stay for a few nights in Arles or Avignon and then later Aix. Are there any other ideal towns? I'm relying on Airbnb.com for our lodging purpose. I did find a super place in Aix. Saving a bit would be a plus, and it looks like Avignon is more reasonable than Arles for that first half of the trip. Any other strategically placed towns I should consider?
Thanks for the reality check, everyone!
The only reason we were going in through Marseilles was because I was going to rent the car there. Is it hard to find car rental companies in Arles or Avignon?
Also, another question. From Stu's sample itinerary I assume I stay for a few nights in Arles or Avignon and then later Aix. Are there any other ideal towns? I'm relying on Airbnb.com for our lodging purpose. I did find a super place in Aix. Saving a bit would be a plus, and it looks like Avignon is more reasonable than Arles for that first half of the trip. Any other strategically placed towns I should consider?
Thanks for the reality check, everyone!
Jul 23rd, 2012, 02:56 PM
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The Avignon TGV station has a large car inventory. Avis, Europcar, and Hertz have offices there - others too - I suspect. We've rented & returned a half-dozen cars there.
Avignon is more centrally located than Arles, but Arles is smaller & easier to get in & out. Avignon has some pretty nasty urban sprawl in all directions except west.
Many people like staying in St Remy. I like the smaller villages in the Luberon - Gordes, Roussillon.
We stay in Gites - so I'm not familiar with specific hotels.
Stu Dudley
Avignon is more centrally located than Arles, but Arles is smaller & easier to get in & out. Avignon has some pretty nasty urban sprawl in all directions except west.
Many people like staying in St Remy. I like the smaller villages in the Luberon - Gordes, Roussillon.
We stay in Gites - so I'm not familiar with specific hotels.
Stu Dudley
Jul 23rd, 2012, 03:04 PM
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Just came back from the south of France. Driving is not a fun thing. Road repairs (one hour back-up at toll booth), VERY confusing twists and turns (don't think I saw one right angle)- easy to get lost. Not all roads have easily visible names - some on the side of buidings, some on posts, tall signs short signs illegible signs - you need a very sharp-eyed navigator. No real system - and I used a GPS and had detailed maps. Found the hotel by accident. With the traffic, pedestrians, changes in speed limits, one ways, and MOTORSCOOTERS there isn't a lot of time to appreciate the views. And yeah - forget Monaco. Make sure you get a small car - I spent about 15 minutes trying to get out of parking lot b/c the car I rented was too big. Even with all that - I'm going back! Nothing like having a martini on the terrace overlooking the French Riviera - like being in a movie. Whatever you finally decide, have a great time!
Jul 23rd, 2012, 07:14 PM
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<<The only reason we were going in through Marseilles was because I was going to rent the car there. Is it hard to find car rental companies in Arles or Avignon?>>
You don't need to "find car rental companies in Arles or Avignon." You rent from AutoEurope or Kemwel (sister companies) and they find you a car rental company in Europe. Cheaper than all or most of the alternatives, and you have them to deal with instead of some French company if something goes wrong. There is a football-field-sized car rental area outside the TGV station in Avignon. Can't speak to Arles as I've never picked up a car there (but I just take the train into Avignon and drive to arles - maybe a half-hour).
Unless there's something new going on in the south of France, I can't agree that driving there is difficult. I've done it a gazillion times. Without GPS, which drives me nuts.I don't often drive on the Riviera, though, so maybe that's where the problems crop up; in the Bouches-du-Rhône or Lubéron, I've never had problems. Someone who's been there more recently than I, feel free to correct me.
You don't need to "find car rental companies in Arles or Avignon." You rent from AutoEurope or Kemwel (sister companies) and they find you a car rental company in Europe. Cheaper than all or most of the alternatives, and you have them to deal with instead of some French company if something goes wrong. There is a football-field-sized car rental area outside the TGV station in Avignon. Can't speak to Arles as I've never picked up a car there (but I just take the train into Avignon and drive to arles - maybe a half-hour).
Unless there's something new going on in the south of France, I can't agree that driving there is difficult. I've done it a gazillion times. Without GPS, which drives me nuts.I don't often drive on the Riviera, though, so maybe that's where the problems crop up; in the Bouches-du-Rhône or Lubéron, I've never had problems. Someone who's been there more recently than I, feel free to correct me.
Jul 23rd, 2012, 08:58 PM
#18
I don't find driving there difficult either, but at this time of year there can indeed be nightmare days on the road. And now that forest fire season has started, there have been some unexpected road closures wreaking havoc.
Jul 24th, 2012, 07:30 AM
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Okay guys, I've revised the itinerary!!! Please feel free to weigh in (especially you, Stu!)
Day 1 Thursday
Train from Paris to Avignon
Pick up rental and stay in Avignon
Day 2 Friday
Gordes, Roussillon, Bonnieux
St-Remy for dinner if possible
Stay in Avignon
Day 3 Saturday
Drive to Aix-en-Provence
Farmer’s market in AM
MM Grotto and Saint Baume in PM (special request from my mother)
Stay in Aix
Day 4 Sunday
Drive to Cassis
Spend 4 hrs in Cassis
Post-lunch drive to Arles, stay there for the night
Day 5 Monday
Drive to Carcassonne and stay there.
Day 6 Tuesday
Leave early for Perpignan, return car by noon, train to BCN by 1 p.m.
Is this better, guys? Thanks again very much for your input (my mother especially thanks you)!
Day 1 Thursday
Train from Paris to Avignon
Pick up rental and stay in Avignon
Day 2 Friday
Gordes, Roussillon, Bonnieux
St-Remy for dinner if possible
Stay in Avignon
Day 3 Saturday
Drive to Aix-en-Provence
Farmer’s market in AM
MM Grotto and Saint Baume in PM (special request from my mother)
Stay in Aix
Day 4 Sunday
Drive to Cassis
Spend 4 hrs in Cassis
Post-lunch drive to Arles, stay there for the night
Day 5 Monday
Drive to Carcassonne and stay there.
Day 6 Tuesday
Leave early for Perpignan, return car by noon, train to BCN by 1 p.m.
Is this better, guys? Thanks again very much for your input (my mother especially thanks you)!
Jul 24th, 2012, 08:36 AM
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Carcassonne is a 3 hr visit at best, IMO. Why spend an entire day & an overnight there???? Spend more time in Provence and arrive in Carcassonne late in the day on Day 5. We've visited Carcassonne twice, & drove by it a week ago today.
Days 5 & 6 will be pretty bland compared to days 2 - 4
Stu Dudley
Days 5 & 6 will be pretty bland compared to days 2 - 4
Stu Dudley
