E. Europe -- Car or Trains????
Nov 15th, 2004, 12:55 PM
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E. Europe -- Car or Trains????
I will start my trip in Berlin and fly out of Vienna in March. I plan to visit the Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, and other countries if possible.
I'm trying to figure out if I should rent a car or just stick with trains. I would like to visit smaller towns, not just the cities.
How difficult is it to rent a car when you
plan to visit more than one country, especially in Eastern Europe?
Suggestions on car rentals would also be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jill
I'm trying to figure out if I should rent a car or just stick with trains. I would like to visit smaller towns, not just the cities.
How difficult is it to rent a car when you
plan to visit more than one country, especially in Eastern Europe?
Suggestions on car rentals would also be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jill
Nov 15th, 2004, 03:51 PM
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For what it's worth (and this notion has beaten to death here on this forum - - not the least of which, by <i>me</i
...
... the five countries you mention are all in <b>central</b> Europe. Russia, and the half dozen-plus countries on its western frontiers constitute <i>Eastern</i> Europe.
You're scarcely at fault for mis-using the term, Jill - - major tour companies that serve Europe do the same thing.
But the people who live in the countries you seek to visit like to point out that they are in the smack dab middle of Europe.
I have always enjoyed driving in all parts of Germany, the east included - - and had a very pleasant driving trip from Vienna to Prague to Poland and back to Graz just last May (2003).
Best wishes,
Rex
...... the five countries you mention are all in <b>central</b> Europe. Russia, and the half dozen-plus countries on its western frontiers constitute <i>Eastern</i> Europe.
You're scarcely at fault for mis-using the term, Jill - - major tour companies that serve Europe do the same thing.
But the people who live in the countries you seek to visit like to point out that they are in the smack dab middle of Europe.
I have always enjoyed driving in all parts of Germany, the east included - - and had a very pleasant driving trip from Vienna to Prague to Poland and back to Graz just last May (2003).
Best wishes,
Rex
Nov 15th, 2004, 04:07 PM
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Some of the car rental companies are fairly particular about which countries that you can take the car into. Others allow it, but may restrict the models that can cross borders or may up the rate or play with the deductibles on insurance. Shopping around may get you around these restrictions somewhat.
The real gotcha seems to be in drop charges, where you pick up in one country and leave the car in another. There can be some tight restrictions and very high fees for doing this.
Try shopping some ideas on the autoeurope.com site. They broker for a few different rental companies and seem to have some leeway around various restrictions. As an example, we took a car a few weeks ago from Hungary into Romania and back. We rented through Autoeurope, but the car was from Budget. The Budget site stated that cars could cross the border, but only the smallest model of Opal and with a big increase in the fee. Autoeurope must have some sort of in with them, as we were able to book and get a larger car with a auto transmission and still take it into Romania, without the upcharge. No problem at all.
However, if we wanted to pick up a car in either country and drop it in the other (an earlier plan), only Hertz would allow this, even through Autoeurope. And they wanted an $1100 drop fee to allow it, on top of the rental charges. Might be worth it to pick up and drop in the same country if possible and train part of the trip.
Nov 15th, 2004, 10:43 PM
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Rex's point is a lot more than just pedantry.
There's a real difference between EU members like the countries you mention and those that are sort of left behind: Romania/Bulgaria, countries in the CIS and most of ex-Yugoslavia. Generally these days, taking an Austrian-hired car into the three countries you mention (or any of the other EU countries) is usually painless, but taking it into other Eastern/Central countries can add all sorts of complications.
As Clifton says, almost any hire agreement involving dropping off in a different country from where you hired will add a lot to your costs. You should investigate low-cost airlines (springing up like mushrooms all over Central Europe, and quite concentrated in Bratislava, which is virtually a suburb of Vienna) to avoid one-way charges - for example, by returning your car to Vienna, then flying to Berlin from Bratislava if there are cheaper deals than from Vienna.
Trains throughout what most of us persist in calling Eastern Europe rarely run with the frequency and universal coverage that they do in, say, Switzerland. If you're planning on lots of spontaneity, you really do need a car.
Don't underestimate the distances, or the poor quality of many secondary roads. Again, these can deteriorate a lot once you move into Romania, Serbia or Ukraine for example: adding these countries onto your list will absorb much more time and energy than adding Poland or Slovenia.
There's a real difference between EU members like the countries you mention and those that are sort of left behind: Romania/Bulgaria, countries in the CIS and most of ex-Yugoslavia. Generally these days, taking an Austrian-hired car into the three countries you mention (or any of the other EU countries) is usually painless, but taking it into other Eastern/Central countries can add all sorts of complications.
As Clifton says, almost any hire agreement involving dropping off in a different country from where you hired will add a lot to your costs. You should investigate low-cost airlines (springing up like mushrooms all over Central Europe, and quite concentrated in Bratislava, which is virtually a suburb of Vienna) to avoid one-way charges - for example, by returning your car to Vienna, then flying to Berlin from Bratislava if there are cheaper deals than from Vienna.
Trains throughout what most of us persist in calling Eastern Europe rarely run with the frequency and universal coverage that they do in, say, Switzerland. If you're planning on lots of spontaneity, you really do need a car.
Don't underestimate the distances, or the poor quality of many secondary roads. Again, these can deteriorate a lot once you move into Romania, Serbia or Ukraine for example: adding these countries onto your list will absorb much more time and energy than adding Poland or Slovenia.
Dec 10th, 2004, 11:55 AM
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In 1975 we did what you are considering, renting a car in Munich and returning it in Austria, although in those days, using two different countries for pickup and return meant that one avoided the VAT on the rental. Now you pay a surcharge. If we could do it in 1975, you can do it now. One of the highlights of the trip was looking for wooden Ruthenian chapels in eastern Slovakia. The low points were crossing the Czechoslovakian border--they confiscated my reading materials going in and spent three hours looking for traces of illegal personal contacts on the way out. The Hungarian guard sauntered over and offered to process our incoming papers while we were waiting to be processed out of Slovakian side of the border.
Dec 10th, 2004, 11:59 AM
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One more thing: you might want to arrange to fly our of Munich to avoid the surcharge incurred by returning the car in a different country. Parking for free is possible in Vienna by parking along a street car line beyond the Gürtel.
Dec 10th, 2004, 12:26 PM
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Hello Jill,
We drove through much of Hungary and some of Serbia, then caught a boat to Vienna and a train to Prague in September 2004.
I applaud your desire to see smaller towns as well as cities. Doing that made a huge difference to the depth of our visits to Hungary and Serbia.
We found the roads in Hungary and Serbia to be good. The highways were excellent. The secondary roads were okay in that they were paved, but we shared them with trucks, which sometimes tested our patience.
The big difference for us, coming from Canada, was that drivers were <b>much</b> more aggressive about overtaking than we are used to. By our standards, many of them were suicidal.
Another challenge is following road signs in a foreign language. We didn't have to drive anywhere ourselves, because we were driven by Hungarian cousins and by a Hungarian friend of my mom. Nevertheless, I used to look at the road signs and test myself to see if I would make the cut if I was driving the route independently.
When we drove from Budapest to Eger, I looked at the map ahead of time and figured out what I thought the route was. When we were actually on the road, we came to a fork where we had to make a decision, and I couldn't decipher the signs. I asked my mom's friend what the signs said, and she replied, "XYZ North and XYZ South." Well, north and south (and east and west too for that matter) were words I'd forgotten to look up in my phrase book ahead of time.
At some point during our drive to Eger, my mom's friend (who had been to Eger several times before!) had to stop at a gas station and ask for directions. Again, it's hard to tell how well we would have coped on our own. Many people in Budapest, especially those who catered to tourists, spoke English. But English was less prevalent in the countryside.
One time we had to go into a smallish town to fill up with gasoline. We got thoroughly lost finding our way out of it. We did find our way, after a couple of circuits through the town. And that was with my Hungarian cousin at the wheel!
All that said, the rewards of visiting the smaller towns are so great that I would tolerate quite a lot of inconvenience in order to see them.
I have heard that Slovakia is <b>much</b> less user-friendly than its neighbours. The Czech Republic and Hungary are much more advanced than Slovakia is in recovering from the negative effects of Communism. My son's girlfriend, who very much enjoyed visiting the Czech Republic in the summer of 2003, found her drive through Slovakia to be a nightmare.
I found in Hungary and the Czech Republic that most people who dealt with tourists spoke English. When I encountered someone who didn't speak English, he/she almost invariably spoke German. English was much less known in Serbia, and my small command of German came in very usefully there.
We drove through much of Hungary and some of Serbia, then caught a boat to Vienna and a train to Prague in September 2004.
I applaud your desire to see smaller towns as well as cities. Doing that made a huge difference to the depth of our visits to Hungary and Serbia.
We found the roads in Hungary and Serbia to be good. The highways were excellent. The secondary roads were okay in that they were paved, but we shared them with trucks, which sometimes tested our patience.
The big difference for us, coming from Canada, was that drivers were <b>much</b> more aggressive about overtaking than we are used to. By our standards, many of them were suicidal.
Another challenge is following road signs in a foreign language. We didn't have to drive anywhere ourselves, because we were driven by Hungarian cousins and by a Hungarian friend of my mom. Nevertheless, I used to look at the road signs and test myself to see if I would make the cut if I was driving the route independently.
When we drove from Budapest to Eger, I looked at the map ahead of time and figured out what I thought the route was. When we were actually on the road, we came to a fork where we had to make a decision, and I couldn't decipher the signs. I asked my mom's friend what the signs said, and she replied, "XYZ North and XYZ South." Well, north and south (and east and west too for that matter) were words I'd forgotten to look up in my phrase book ahead of time.
At some point during our drive to Eger, my mom's friend (who had been to Eger several times before!) had to stop at a gas station and ask for directions. Again, it's hard to tell how well we would have coped on our own. Many people in Budapest, especially those who catered to tourists, spoke English. But English was less prevalent in the countryside.
One time we had to go into a smallish town to fill up with gasoline. We got thoroughly lost finding our way out of it. We did find our way, after a couple of circuits through the town. And that was with my Hungarian cousin at the wheel!
All that said, the rewards of visiting the smaller towns are so great that I would tolerate quite a lot of inconvenience in order to see them.
I have heard that Slovakia is <b>much</b> less user-friendly than its neighbours. The Czech Republic and Hungary are much more advanced than Slovakia is in recovering from the negative effects of Communism. My son's girlfriend, who very much enjoyed visiting the Czech Republic in the summer of 2003, found her drive through Slovakia to be a nightmare.
I found in Hungary and the Czech Republic that most people who dealt with tourists spoke English. When I encountered someone who didn't speak English, he/she almost invariably spoke German. English was much less known in Serbia, and my small command of German came in very usefully there.
Dec 10th, 2004, 12:41 PM
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Just for your information:
I use a Peugeot-Sodexa lease car when in Europe. They allow travel to all the central European countries, that you seem to be intent on visiting - but not Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro or Albania. And of course Romania and Bulgaria are still out of bounds, let alone Ukraine. It is quite possible that other lease companies have these same restrictions.
Car travel is really the only way to go in this part of the world, where much of what you will be doing will depend on the whim of the moment - what your accommodation hosts or fellow tourists recommend from day to day.
Harzer
I use a Peugeot-Sodexa lease car when in Europe. They allow travel to all the central European countries, that you seem to be intent on visiting - but not Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro or Albania. And of course Romania and Bulgaria are still out of bounds, let alone Ukraine. It is quite possible that other lease companies have these same restrictions.
Car travel is really the only way to go in this part of the world, where much of what you will be doing will depend on the whim of the moment - what your accommodation hosts or fellow tourists recommend from day to day.
Harzer
Dec 11th, 2004, 11:44 AM
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Jill -
My wife and I are leaving December 23. We plan on landing in Zurich and visiting Germany, Czech Republic, Austria and Italy. We are renting a car. It is not difficult to rent one, but they limit what you can take into the former Eastern Europe. You'll probably have to get something like a Ford Focus, which really isn't as bad as it sounds.
My wife and I are leaving December 23. We plan on landing in Zurich and visiting Germany, Czech Republic, Austria and Italy. We are renting a car. It is not difficult to rent one, but they limit what you can take into the former Eastern Europe. You'll probably have to get something like a Ford Focus, which really isn't as bad as it sounds.
Dec 11th, 2004, 06:34 PM
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Jill: Go for the car. Auto europe.com does a good job. The flexability to stop and see whatever you want can't be over emphasized. We have driven all over The Czek Republic, Hungary and Poland. The roads in The Czek Republic and Hungary were very good and the drivers not a problem. The roads in Poland (out in the country) are not as good, but we did just fine and wouldn't have missed the opportunity to see the villages we visited. It can be slow going at times, but, hey, that's part of the process.
Please don't ignore Poland. You cannot imagine how beautiful this Country is with more medieval villages, castles, monasteries and wonderful countryside than you can imagine. By-the-way, I am not Polish (I am Hungarian and loved Hungary), but Poland was just wonderful, the people, the things to see and do. Really wonderful.
Please don't ignore Poland. You cannot imagine how beautiful this Country is with more medieval villages, castles, monasteries and wonderful countryside than you can imagine. By-the-way, I am not Polish (I am Hungarian and loved Hungary), but Poland was just wonderful, the people, the things to see and do. Really wonderful.
Dec 11th, 2004, 07:43 PM
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Budapest? Vienna? Prague? Will you omit them -- or will you garage a car for the period of your stay in them?
If you traveled by train -- perhaps renting a car for jaunts from an urban centre -- you could still see 90% of what you would see if you took a car for the whole trip, IMO.
And a car in the cities I mention could be costly and the driving nightmarish.
Each option has its benefits but each option has its disadvantages, too.
I admit I have only ever traveled between large cities in those countries. We pondered and pondered car rental from Budapest and in the end dropped the "wandering" option for another train-based trip to Vienna for Easter weekend.
We felt afterward that the train was a treat in itself -- we use it so seldom at home and their trains are so much better than ours...
But to each his own.
If you traveled by train -- perhaps renting a car for jaunts from an urban centre -- you could still see 90% of what you would see if you took a car for the whole trip, IMO.
And a car in the cities I mention could be costly and the driving nightmarish.
Each option has its benefits but each option has its disadvantages, too.
I admit I have only ever traveled between large cities in those countries. We pondered and pondered car rental from Budapest and in the end dropped the "wandering" option for another train-based trip to Vienna for Easter weekend.
We felt afterward that the train was a treat in itself -- we use it so seldom at home and their trains are so much better than ours...
But to each his own.
Dec 21st, 2004, 12:28 PM
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Hi Jill,
We rented a car in Frankfurt in 1996 and drove to Czech, Slovakia, Poland and Austria (Vienna.) I highly recommend it. Czech was easy driving and we were able to go to smaller towns like Czesky Krumlov and Telc. Slovakia was hell to drive in - people are truly suicidal, passing regardless of oncoming traffic. Poland was similar with the added fun of people walking in the road on dark, raining nights. Vienna was very easy to drive in, such courteous drivers, and we parked right outside the main ring for several days with no problems.
We did have a hard time at the border crossing from Germany to Czech until I finally told the border guard (in German) how much I paid in insurance just to take our car into Czech! Apparently there were many problems at the time with car thefts. So everytime we returned to our car to find it still there it was a cause for minor celebration! Other border crossings were absolutely no trouble.
We rented a car in Frankfurt in 1996 and drove to Czech, Slovakia, Poland and Austria (Vienna.) I highly recommend it. Czech was easy driving and we were able to go to smaller towns like Czesky Krumlov and Telc. Slovakia was hell to drive in - people are truly suicidal, passing regardless of oncoming traffic. Poland was similar with the added fun of people walking in the road on dark, raining nights. Vienna was very easy to drive in, such courteous drivers, and we parked right outside the main ring for several days with no problems.
We did have a hard time at the border crossing from Germany to Czech until I finally told the border guard (in German) how much I paid in insurance just to take our car into Czech! Apparently there were many problems at the time with car thefts. So everytime we returned to our car to find it still there it was a cause for minor celebration! Other border crossings were absolutely no trouble.
