ACSMITH

We are planning to travel to Switzerland the first 2 weeks of December to visit our daughter who is spending a semester abroad in Geneva. We'd like to ski in Zermatt and visit the lake Geneva area. Will it be too cold to walk around much? Can anyone suggest an itinerary?

Continental_Drifter

I like one we used years ago that included Lucerne and Gstaad. I think we combined two Karen Brown itineraries. We did it all by train.

I think it was Zurich - Berne - Montreaux - Gstaad - Lucerne - Zermatt - Locarno - Bellinzona

We were there between Christmas and New Year's Eve. We then headed down to Zermatt, looped back up and down to the Italian Alps. (That was not on the KB itinerary, but we added it.) I may have swapped the order between Gstaad and Lucerne. You'll have to check the train schedules. I don't know if you can beat Gstaad for the ski on/off train between slopes. It is truly charming. Of course, what can beat the Matterhorn?

Great trip! Enjoy!

Continental_Drifter

By the way - we actually only spent one night in Berne. Not a place we felt we should spend much time with the cities ahead of us!

PalenQ

will it be too cold to walk around - no at least not in the Geneva area where it would rarely be cold enough to snow but at higher elevations for skiing of course it will be much colder.

I would suggest that the Jungfrau Region around Interlaken has a lot more varied things to see and do and lots of different ski areas for all kinds of experiences than does Zermatt, which is a much smaller area.

In the Interlaken area you can on funky day day trip to yes Bern, one of Switzerland's vastly underrated cities and Lucerne - one of Europe's most beautiful cities.

Between Lake Geneva (Montreux is a neat base - near the famous Chateau de Chillon) and Interlaken you can take the fabled Golden Pass specialty scenic train - once in either Zermatt or the Jungfrau Region cars are useless so take the train (cars not allowed beyond a few low elevation towns) - driving in winter can be dicey so yes hop the excellent train system.

For a lot on Swiss trains check out these IMO superb sources: www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

You could easily spend time in both the Zermatt and Interlaken areas and Lake Geneva - nicely split for your overall time frame.

swandav2000

Hi ACSMITH,

Not sure of your exact dates -- would be helpful if you could let us know specific dates.

Zermatt has high season at Christmas time, but I think if you could get your skiing done before 13 December, you should be fine. However, after that date, you *may* run into some lack of available rooms -- many, many people spend two weeks skiing at the Christmas holidays. Just something to be aware of. You may want to check availability right now for your dates at

www.zermatt.ch

just to see what it looks like.

Similarly, Montreux has several Christmas markets going on before Christmas, and you may also run into some lack of available hotel rooms -- it's hugely popular at that time. If you can't find hotels in Montreux, you could stay in neighboring Vevey; the two towns are linked by a common city bus, and your hosts will give you a card making the busses free. You can find hotels at

www.montreux-vevey.com

The itinerary suggested by Continental_Drifter has some zig-zagging in it, going from north to south to middle to south again; I far prefer straight itineraries so that I don't waste too much time backtracking, etc. I also think that 8 destinations is too many in 14 nights. I would suggest maybe 3 destinations -- Zermatt, Montreux, and Luzern.

Anyway, have fun as you plan!

s

ACSMITH

Thanks to everyone for your helpful suggestions!

Continental_Drifter

<<The itinerary suggested by Continental_Drifter has some zig-zagging in it, going from north to south to middle to south again;>>

You are SO right! I just can't remember the order. Hence, the KB itinerary and rail route suggestion.

PalenQ

In the Geneva area Montreux or neighboring Vevey make sweet bases (though your daughter may be tired on this area and want to go to a different part of this tiny countryside).

But there are some neat day trips you can do - like take the train to Gruyeres - perfect old walled town with an old city centre, castle and cheese-making plant you can visit and then onto Broc Factory train station for a Willy Wonkaesque tour of the Nestle (?) chocolate factory there - in season the Chocolate Express is a guided tour train that goes to both from Montreux but not sure it is running in winter. But a neat day trip.

If doing day trips a lot look into the 15-consecutive-day Swiss Pass that covers virtually all trains except those going only to mountain tops as well as city buses and trams, postal buses, lake boats (probably not running much if at all in winter) and gives free entry to 480 or so Swiss museums - just flash the pass and hop on. A Saverpass has 2-5 names on it and is cheaper than solo passes bu a lot.

PalenQ

http://www.goldenpass.ch/goldenpass_chocolate_train

Official site of the Chocolate Train - even if not running when you are there you can duplicate the course of the train with frequent local trains running the same route.

PalenQ

Try to take the Golden Pass train on its most nicest part - between Montreux and Zweisimmen - bucolic valleys hemmed in by majestic snow-capped peaks and special observation cars with virtually all windows. You could easily do this going to Zermatt by taking the GP to Spiez then the new high-speed tunnel line to Visp and change to trains to Zermatt - probably a few hours longer than the more direct Geneva-Monreux-Visp rail line up the Rhone Valley - a scenic one as well - Sion would make a neat few-hour stop to see its two castles, one ruined and one in tact.

swandav2000

PalQ, I don't understand your last comment. If someone takes a high-speed tunnel line from Spiez to Visp, s/he will miss the most scenic part of the GP between Zweisimmen and Montreux.

If someone wants to take the GP route, then s/he would take the train to Spiez, continue to Zweisimmen and to Montreux, then run from Montreux to Zermatt.

Zermatt-Visp line is south of the scenic Montreux-Zweisimmen line.

s

neckervd

The Lake Geneva - Valais area is usually sunnier and warmer than the rest of Switzerland. I often walk in December along the endless Water irrigation channels along the sunny slopes of the Rhone Valley: Sion - Bisse de Clavau - Bisse de Chermignon et Lens - Bisse de Venthone - Bisse de Varone - Leuk..... etc.
(Bisse means water channel). If the weather is fine, it can get rather warm (pic nic in the nature possible) in this area.
But the weather is always unpredictable in the Alps.

In December, the Swiss midlands (Berne, Interlaken, Lucerne, Solothurn, Aarau , Zurich....) are often under thick fog with an upper limit at about 1500 metres.

Ski at high altitudes will be possible at many places in December; Zermatt is one of the best choices.
http://www.zermatt.ch/en/Skiing
places closer to Geneva: Chamonix, Verbier

PalenQ

PalQ, I don't understand your last comment. If someone takes a high-speed tunnel line from Spiez to Visp, s/he will miss the most scenic part of the GP between Zweisimmen and Montreux.>

Well I mean you take the best part of the GPass route - Montreux to Zweisimmen to Spiez - then the new Lotschberg Base Rail Tunnel quickly to Visp where you jump off for Zermatt.

I am suggesting that instead of the most direct route Montreux to Zermatt - up the Rhone Valley to Visp - a longer route lets you do the wonderful Golden Pass train - kind of like doing a triangle rather than a straight line - this is to do the GP when going between Montreux and Zermatt - even though a longer route the new Lotschberg Tunnel makes it not so long.

swandav2000

Sorry, but that sounds bizarre to me. Adds 1h40 to 2h to the travel. If they really want to do the GP route, they can just do the Chocolate Train route as an excursion on one day, as you've already suggested above. They'll have two weeks on Lake Geneva, it seems, so plenty of time to do that.

I assumed the OP was coming from Zürich or Luzern to Montreux and then Zermatt. If doing that, they can do the GP while enroute to Montreux.

s