Okay, so I guess it's more of a wash if your credit card doesn't charge the foreign currency charge on DCC charges (which mine doesn't). I am also assuming that USAA got me as close to the best conversion rate as possible because as a company that is in general their MO. So for ME, the DCC wouldn't have been that big of a deal. At least not worth beating myself (and my husband) up about it after the fact or arguing with the clerks, as I had to in a couple of instances because in at least one location the transaction happened without an opt-out and I wound up paying cash. And that was the place that gave me the 1.39 rate, same as my CC, so it really wouldn't have made a difference!

OH, and I just rechecked my statement and the high rate on my CC was 1.39 dollar to euro and the low was 1.36. Bad week to travel I suppose.

First trip to Italy. In the plaaning stages.We are learning.Please explain "DCC" Thanks

DCC is an independent scheme where MC and VISA (but not AMEX) users get offered a "convenient" service of having foreign cc charges converted instantly to dollar (or whatever is your CC card's home currency using a conversion rate favoring the merchants, NOT you, the user.)

You can look it up easily by "dynamic currency conversion" in Google.

Of the links listed, the Washington Post article is a good starting point.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072900927.html

To understand why merchants like to sign up for this service, you only need to click one of the many commercial sites that show up on Google search promoting this service to the merchants. Hint: the merchants get a cut of this extra profit - at YOUR expense.

Here is a quote about it from Visa's own website, and it clearly states that the rate is set by the merchant, it is not that they get a cut of the Visa rate (which is not a 3 pct markup, a 3 pct rate is a particular card issuer's doing, not Visa's -- Visa only charges 1 pct).

<<What is Dynamic Currency Conversion?
Some merchants now offer to convert your bill into your home currency. This is called dynamic currency conversion and means the merchant—and not Visa—is converting the currency. As a consumer you may value knowing the exact price in your home currency at the point of sale but you should also know you may be charged extra for this service by the merchant. Visa requires that you are provided a meaningful choice at the point of sale and you have the right to buy your purchase in the local currency so that you do not incur any additional fees the merchant may assess. Visa also requires merchants offering this service to inform you of the exchange rate including any applicable commission being charged. If you choose DCC for a transaction, you receive the merchant rate, not Visa's rate.>>

Monica: My trip to Italy was a couple of years ago....when the exchange rate was slightly better.

As far as DCC not being a "big deal"...
you have to handle things for yourself in the way you feel most comfortable. I can perfectly understand that you don't want to have unpleasant arguments with assorted merchants and sales clerks putting a cloud over your vacation.

I'm the same way when it comes to taxi fares. I hate arguing with taxi drivers about using the meter. Even though the law in the area might say that a driver is required to use the meter, many of them refuse. So, rather than have an unpleasant exchange ruin my day, I always have an idea of what the fare should be and agree to a price ahead of time. I might pay a little bit more. But it is my vacation. I don't feel like fighting.

You could say that it's the same as putting up with DCC.

Besides, when I make up my trip budget, I always factor in costs for tourist rip-offs. It happens everywhere. I don't let it ruin my vacation.

So, just handle it in whatever way makes you most comfortable.

Izzy....maybe this article from the Washington Post in 2005 will help you to understand DCC.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072900927.html

Okay...it's pretty clear what happened...the day the euro rate was down around $1.32...was the day the dcc transaction occurred at $1.39...later on the dollar lost some ground against the euro and later in the trip was closer to $1.39 it most assuredly is a scam and yes you were ripped off.

How does dcc work? This scam started in Ireland but now in the age of computers and technology has been refined and is now pulled all over the place and is very very prevelent in Ireland, Spain, Italy to name several places...it is hardly practiced in Germany and France and is catching on a bit in Switzerland and Holland.

In this scam, a merchant signs up with a credit card processor to process his or her mastercard/visa transactions (as well as amex perhaps but amex does not allow this scam)...you purchase something say in Italy and the merchant swipes your mastercard into the terminal and enters the amount in euro...the terminal from the number of the account determines the card is a US dollar card so it comes up with a converted amount using an amount determined by the processor, far above the rate the credit card company would use, and asks the merchant if the customers wishes to pay in US dollars in this case...this is where the choice is supposed to come in but most clerks are taught not to ask, they press yes and a sales slip is produced..the sales slip will show the amount in euro, the conversion rate and the amount in US dollars and the customer is asked to sign the slip...of course they are counting on the stupidity of the customer and in Italy the statement they are asked to sign is, guess what, in Italian. Basically you are asked to sign a statement saying you were offered the opportunity to pay in local currency (euro) and agreed to the conversion rate and have agreed that mastercard will not provide the currency conversion.

At this point, the antena should be raised...when they have pulled this scam on me I immediately make a stink and say, I was not offered the opportunity to pay in euro. Usually this produces one of several lies like, well you are paying in euro see the euro amount the US$ amount is just an approximation to assist you (then why am I being asked to sign a statement that I agreed to the conversion rate); another lie is they have no control over it, the terminal does it automatically (remember the clerk had to indicate the customer agreed to be scammed)...another lie is that mastercard requires it or Italy requires it or whatever.

I refuse to sign the slip...I demand to see the manager...at this point suddenly they can't speak English or whatever....now for the most part when in Ireland or Scotland when this scam has been pulled on me since there is no language problem, I am able to get the manager over and invariably he agrees to rescind the transaction and do it properly....I've never had this done to me in Italy and don't speak Italian but I do know I wouldn't pay cash...if they refused to do it the right way, I cross out the US$ amount, I circle the euro amount, I cross out the statement and write dcc refused and tell them in no uncertain terms that I will be disputing the charge and since they won't have a signed statement it will be returned to them..again up till now I have never failed to have it done the right way.

It is a scam and a rip off...the merchant is getting a piece of the currency conversion action, the rate used is far higher than what mastercard and visa use no matter what the OP thinks and there are some banks, apparently not hers, that add the 3% fee anyway claiming it is a fee on foreign transactions not foreign currency transactions.

It is a cancer, it is a rip off and you must say no and you must not pay cash....do as I do...circle the euro amount, cross out the US$ amount and write dcc refused and then dispute the charge.

They have no right to charge you in any currency other than their currency unless you agree.

Period, end of discussion.

Why don't people just use cash. It's so much easier and has style. :-)

pay cash???? I don't pay cash for anything at home...everything I do in life, grocery stores, convenience stores, fast food restaurants, regular restaurants, utility bills, mobile phone bills, landline phone bills, purchases on the web, drug stores, doctor visits, auto insurance is done the proper way with credit cards. When travelling, everywhere credit cards are taken you can be sure I will pay with a credit card...who wants to be bothered with cash.

The only way to travel in this day and age IMHO.

Paying with large amounts in cash is very stylish nowadays. Gold cards not so much. It's the whole transaction (counting, getting a reciept...) that's "in" again. And people sometimes love cash, because it leaves no traces. :-)

> utility bills, mobile phone bills, landline phone bills, purchases on the web, ..., auto insurance is done the proper way with credit cards.

I was just thinking ;-), All those things pay themselves without any interference needed from my side. No credit or other card needed, they just take the amount directly from my bank account and send me a receipt. It's called "Einzugsermächtigung". ;-)

most of those things are automatically charged to my credit card (it could just as easily be set up to come out of my checking account but then I wouldn't get the frequent flyer mileage)...it's called recurring payments.

>Why don't people just use cash. It's so much easier and has style.<

Handling currency has style?

"Send the bill to my solicitors" - that's style. :)

>Paying with large amounts in cash is very stylish nowadays.

Aha. "Fashionable", not "stylish".
As somebody's butler once remarked of Andrew Carnegie's swimming pool, "Smacks of the parvenu, m'lud".
((I))

As xyz123 stated, you can refuse to sign the charge slip if they won't rescind the dcc amount.

At the restaurant in Venice where we encountered this, I told the waiter that i wanted the bill in Euros. He said their machine automatically converted it to dollars and they had no control over it.

I asked to speak to the manager who told me I was the first American to complain and all his other customers "appreciate this convenience".

I told him I would refuse to sign the charge receipt unless he changed it to Euros OR that I would sign the slip "under protest" and dispute the charge on my bill.

The manager was annoyed saying that this would cause him a big problem because he would have to void the first transaction and re-do it.

TOO BAD.

The manager finally complied with my request, but our very lovely and beautiful dinner and evening at a special restaurant in Venice had been somewhat compromised by this unpleasant exchange.

Since I wasn't sure how widespread this practice was at that time, for the rest of the trip we paid cash for meals ....so as to avoid more disagreeable events ruining our dinners. I like to take the path of least resistance, especially on vacations.

suntraveler wrote: "The manager finally complied with my request, but our very lovely and beautiful dinner and evening at a special restaurant in Venice had been somewhat compromised by this unpleasant exchange."

I understand how you felt. You probably would not consider dining there again, and would advise your friends against it. But there's the rub: in places like Venice repeat business is less important than less touristed areas.

I expect that your experience would have been even more soured if you had let the restaurant away with such a blatant ripoff. Certainly mine would, if I found myself in your situation. I would rather have a confrontation such as you describe than be taken for a fool.

On a 7 week trip we encountered this problem only once, in Scotland at a restaurant where we went with friends. It was very embarrassing to question the transaction, but we stood our ground after reading about the DCC on these forums before we left. In retrospect, I would just pay the bill as it was, because it took quite some time to sort it out, they were reluctant to change it to local currency and, as I said, it was a bit embarrassing in front of our Scottish friends. The difference,in dollar terms, was not really significant; it was just the principle of the matter.

I don't understand...why is it embarassing to have a correct bill presented to you...if you got a bill with things added on you didn't order, you would certainly complain so why is it different if the bill contains something you didn't order namely an illegal conversion to another currency at a rip off rate? If I were dining with somebody and they stood up with an incorrect bill, I would appreciate it that they knew what they were doing.

As far as ruining my evening if I have to deal with an idiot of a manager, how can that ruin your evening? You had a wonderful meal, you simply had a problem with billing, it happens. You simply wanted them to correct the bill.

As far as paying cash to avoid this, nonsense. There are good reasons to use credit cards while travelling and these near crooked merchants have no right to change the rules of the game; they signed a merchant's agreement with mastercard/visa and should be forced to live up to it. I would also report any of these scam artists immediately to mastercard/visa...it may prompt a letter or something to them telling them to cease and desist and following the rule which is they must ask the customer before completing the transaction if the customers wishes to be ripped off with this disease known as dynamic currenchy conversion.

Again, just say no.

But really, in a restaurant, at least 95% of the customers pay cash. "When in Rome,..." And quite a number of times people in line get angry, when it has people in front of them, fiddling around with a card. It's fast and a courtesy to the people around to pay in cash at restaurants and supermarkets at least.

logos...

I don't know if it is different in Germany....when I go to a supermarket, invariably this is what happens (incidentally why more American supermarkets don't adopt one line and wait for the next available cashier is something I just don't understand)...

The little old lady (it could be a large young man) in front of me has her order rung up at $13.42...then and only then she starts fiddling with her pocketbook to locate her wallet and starts going through her money..ah she finds a $10 bank note...and then wants to dump off some of her change and starts counting out and get to $11...then to $12 then sees she doesn't have enough so back into the wallet for 3 more $1 bank notes and now she counts out the small change, gets to 40 cents realizes she doesn't have 3 pennies so back for another $1 banknote...

My order rings up at $3.72...into my wallet for my mastercard..swipe it rhough the terminal, the transaction completes in seconds signs the charge slip and finished.

Which is faster??????

As far as restaurants, the same should hold...it is only when restaurants pull this dcc scam and you have to argue with management who are trying to rip you off (I'll give the waiter the benefit of the doubt, he's just doing what he's told to do) that there is any hang up whatsoever in paying by credit card.

Paying by credit card is much more efficient and safer for the merchant...no more wandering cash...no more argument with both honest and dishonest customers (I gave you a $20 bank note when change is given for $100....swipe the card in the terminal...authorization in this day and age takes seconds even on international transactions, either have the customer enter his or her pin with a chip and pin card or sign the receipt and done.

In the 2qst century, plastic should rule.

Well, it's considered impolite at those places, and at least over here, credit card transactions take a lot longer. Hand the card, swipe it, paper slip being printed, give pen and let customer sign, compare signature to back of card, close drawer of cash register, give card back. Signing this small strip of paper takes "forever" sometimes. What's even worse, the store has to pay a fee to the credit card company too. The store keepers are the ones being "ripped off". They've got the extra work and pay money for nothing.


Plastic money is good for paying larger sums. The vast majority here gets enough cash from the atm for a days or two and then uses that cash. Only if you have forgotten to take enough cash, you use the card and then of course apologize for having to use it.