Dynamic currency conversion at ATMs, that a new one
 

I just checked my banking statement here in Japan. Ich withdrew 80.000 yen from an ATM in Osaka and was billed in USD. My Euro denominated card was charged in USD, which were then transferred into yen, loosing about 3 percent of the exchange value. Never heared of this before, so people be alert. :-)

What recourse would you have at an ATM? Yikes! You had to go through two conversions, right? Yen to USD and back to Yen?
:-(

It was Euros to USD and USD to Yen. No chance to complain anywhere... USD to Yen took about 3 percent of the value. That conversion was done by "them" and the Euro to USD conversion appeared on my banking statement with onl‚™ a small fee, as usual.

How bizarre. Out of curiosity what kind of bank was it? I mean it wasn't a US bank branch was it? I'm trying to figure why they'd go to dollars between yen and euros.

Hi L,

>I withdrew 80.000 yen from an ATM in Osaka and was billed in USD. My Euro denominated card was charged in USD, which were then transferred into yen, ...

OOOH. Sounds like some US/Japanese conspiracy to rip off Europeans. :)

What network does your card belong to?

What bank owned the ATM?

((I))

Its a VISA debit card. The ATM was owned by "Universal Studios Japan". That`s not a Bank anyway, but they seem to be allowed to install ATMs over here. Just another rip-off. No information given on that policy at all.

Oh, it's a non-bank ATM. That explains it. I understand non-bank ATM's in Europe also apply a surcharge or some sort of fee, but I've never used one -- only have used bank ATM's. ((b))

Would they have given the information in Japanese? English? Any/all of the languages used in the Euro zone?

Standalone non-bank ATM's right here in the good old USA usually have policies/charges/ rates that do not serve the interests of the consumer (i.e., screw the user). It's the same the whole world over. Use bank ATMs only, and even then . . . .

Oh, yes. Now I get it. One of the most basic rules of ATM usage is to NEVER use a NON-BANK ATM, unless of course you don't care about extra or hidden fees.

Just as European banks are forbidden to add charges for any US or Canadian ATM withdrawal, non-bank ones are allowed to add just about any charges they care to.

Don't fee bad, logos, lots of tourists do that when traveling by putting their ATM card in a convenience ATM at a store or tourist attraction without looking to make sure it is a bank owned ATM. Same thing happens to them.

Just a guess here, but is Universal Studios a US company -- therefore it is logical their transactions would all go back through a US bank on their way to whatever country the ATM came from?

I have heard of Universal Studios Japan, a large theme park near Osaka, but have no idea what USJ-branded ATM is. Japan is peculiar in that normal local banks' ATMs juust take domestic cards, and only a limited number of ATMs can be used with foreign cards - Visa, Master, Cirrus, Plus, Maestro etc. But those that do take them normally levy no additional charge. The kind of two-stage conversions used to take place with Visa cards around 30 years ago when all foreign withdrawals (and purchases with a credit card) were first changed into US$ and then into your billing currency, but I haven't come across one for years. It's not quite the same as DCC in which the ATM operator do the conversion upfront directly into your billing currency.
I have come across DCC at ATMs outside a bank branch in Spain this summer. It was definitely a bank ATM - not a private one, and as I tried to withdraw euro using my UK card, screen message appeared giving me a choice of being billed in sterling (at a rate around 3% worse than interbank) or in euro. I chose euro and the transaction went through in the normal way, avoiding DCC.

What part of Europe is Japan located?

Huh? Who said it was? I sure hope you're not referring to a phrase of mine "Just as European banks. . ." That sure didn't mean to imply that Japan was in Europe! It did, however, suggest that in any foreign country (or continent), non bank ATMs may not follow the same rules as Bank ATMs.

Hold your horses, I just mean that this is a Europe forum, not Asian. Seemed a bit strange to discuss a Japanese transaction on a Europe board. Didn't mean to offend anyone. Think as it being stated with a smile. :)

Oh. Never thought of that. LOL

Well he was using a European ATM card! Does that count?

I'm not going to google to find out, but I would assume that is an American company, right? Owned by Universal Studios in the US? So the USD is their accounting currency and it doesn't seem that surprising to me, in that case. I had one hotel in a certain European country only quote me rates in euros, for example, even though that wasn't the currency used there because the company was Austrian, and they told me that was the only way they set their rates. Maybe not the perfect analogy, but I wouldn't ever use a private ATM unless desperate, anyway.

I found the transaction slip. It says JCB International. Isn`t this a bank? The ATM is located at the rail station at Univ. Studios, so it´s outside the park?ß

A quick google tells me that JCB International is not a bank at all but is a "payment services" brand name. They issue credit cards of their own as well In other words it sounds like they are a service set up to make money on changing money or receiving and paying out payments for goods and services. Think of PayPal as having a special card and also having ATM machines that will dispense cash when you insert a Visa or MasterCard. Ouch.

Universal Studios is a huge entertainment complex in Burbank, California.

NeoPatrick: <i>Oh, yes. Now I get it. One of the most basic rules of ATM usage is to NEVER use a NON-BANK ATM, </i>

Right on.

Even worse, there have been reports in the USA that some of the non-bank ATMs are set up to steal your account number and PIN. If you see an ATM in Slick's Snack Shop do not use it. Remember, unlike credit cards, most debit cards have no max on fraud. Your account can be cleaned out.

Thanks! Well it was just $20 I lost, but it was frustrating that there wasnt any info given on that policy. The ATM looked just like any bank ATM.

logos, I don't know what it's like in Germany, but here in the states there are an increasing number of ATMs located in all kinds of places -- groceries, convenience stores, casinos, inside malls, etc. They mainly have official sounding names (not unlike your JCB International). I suppose the name is planned to add confidence to the person sticking his card in the machine. But once you do that anything can happen. Some will have &quot;bank&quot; sounding names like -- Bank-o-matic or Mini Bank Center. Here, at least they usually tell you on the screen what they might charge you, but I'm not sure that's always the case. Once you add in a foreign currency exhange with one of these machines -- anything can happen.

..My Euro denominated card ..I think this makes it appropriate for this board

You just have to look for a bank name on the ATM, that's all. Maybe you won't know all the names of banks in some foreign country, but I think they are always fairly obvious as to whether they are an ATM from a real bank or not. If you've been in a place a bit, one probably has run across the standard bank names, also.

It isn't difficult to figure them out in the US (the name bancomat clearly isn't any official bank name, and that's a name just used in Europe or elsewhere for this type of machine, I know I've seen it), but for locals in the US, they aren't always a bad idea, actually. They can have a lower transaction fee than the real bank ATMs, if you don't happen to have a card for the bank that is running the ATM. I know in my grocery store, there is a private ATM right next to the local bank's one, which is my bank. I wondered why so many folks were using the private ATM, if they didn't know what they were doing or what. Then I read the screens and noticed that the fee was actually lower on the private ATM than the bank one, if you didn't have that bank's card (maybe $1.50 versus $2).

But Christina, I may be wrong on this, but I thought many banks have mutual agreements so that bank ATM in the grocery may charge you $2, but your own bank won't charge you any additional for using the other bank's ATM. But if you use the commercial ATM which charges you $1.50, your own bank MAY charge you an additional fee which could be a couple dollars as they have no agreement with the commercial ATMs.

I say this only because the only non bank ATM I ever used was in a Las Vegas casino, and my bank DID charge me a significant fee in addition to the fee that was levied by the machine. But my bank has never charged me a fee for using a different bank's ATM in the US. I've only had the charge issued by that bank.

Well, all letters were Kanji only, only when I ppressed the &quot;English&quot; button, the usual keys were available, anyway $20 less on charity this christmas... (Not really ;-) ). Greetings from Fukuoka. :-)