Dutch Coffeeshop Update...Amsterdam Allows Foreigners...
 

Recently it came up on another thread that someone thought the ban on foreigners patronzing Holland's coffeeshops, where cannabis is sold over the counter, was in effect and only local inhabitants of a community could do so.

But apparently not so from Amsterdam Info:

http://www.amsterdam.info/coffee-shop-news/

which includes:
December 12, 2012 News:
No restrictions for visitors in Amsterdam
The mayor of Amsterdam Eberhard van der Laan confirmed in his letter that a certificate of residence issued by city municipality will not be required to enter the coffee shops in Amsterdam.
The mayor underlined that while one third of six to eight million tourists arriving to Amsterdam each year visits the coffee shops, these visitors do not create any disturbance in the life of the city, while limitations on sale of the cannabis to foreigners might create illegal street trade and be a cause for growth of criminality. At the same time, a strict ban on smoking marijuana in schools and schoolyards has been reaffirmed by the Mayor set to take effect on January 1, 2013.>

What jumped out to me was that 1/3 of the 6-8 million tourists a year who visit Amsterdam go to coffeeshops at least once. Enough said - the economic impact would be so huge - some of those tourists not even coming - that I think it will be safe to say Amsterdam's unique (for Europe not Colorado!) will be open to foreign tourists for the near future - it looks like other localities may decide different.

ANYONE HAVE A CURRENT RUN-DOWN OF THE ACTUAL POLICY?

I don't know the policy, but my daughter was studying in Amsterdam last semester and she confirmed to me that coffee shops were not restricted to just locals. Only restriction appears to be age -- must be 21 years old.

Diane

Afaik the only coffee shops which are restricted to residents of the Netherlands are those in Limburg and Noord Brabant, due to a) the pressure applied by Belgium and France, and b) the problems the citizens of those countries gave in those provinces.

Legal age is 18 years an they are very strict with it. From 1st of January 2016 about 30 coffeeshops have to close because they are in the neighborhood of schools. By this measure a complete ban on foreigners is for the moment not in the planning. But as more and more Amsterdammers are a bit fed up with al those stoners in the streets more restrictions can be coming

That's what I though - hetismij who lives in The Netherlands of course has the up to minute dope (no pun intended)!

a new rule I believe caps the level of THC in cannabis products at 15% - much higher than pot in the 70s but much lower than in say Michigan or Colorado where legal dispensaries brag about 20-25% THC.

and I guess the Dutch raised the age from 18 to 21 for cofeeshops too which seems odd as alcohol, a much more dangerous substance for youths and any age IMO, is still 18, up from 16 and apparently rigidly enforced as two Dutch Fodorites have reported.

Holland is not as tolerant in many ways I find and not saying that is necessarily bad.

FRiet says 18 which makes more sense to comport with booze age.

FRiet - it says - the amsterdam info article - that 1/3 of all foreign tourists go to coffeeshops - some no doubt just to see what these places are like - but that sounds like a major impact on the local economy - what if a good chunk of those only come because of coffeeshops - I know a lot of well-heeled folks who go to Amsterdam because of it.

anyway I understand not wanting the younger Germans and French and Belgians who like my son did at that age go to Amsterdam and only smoke hash or pot and sleep in their cars or at dumpy hostels and spend little money - because they probably don't have much.

I can see both sides of the issue.

I'm not aware of a cap on THC levels.

Do you have a link?

Minimum age in coffeeshops is 18. My son (nearly 18) can't wait: no more sitting out in parks to smoke.

LOL.."all these stoners in the streets" and I bet not a single one of them is actually from The Netherlands, right?

I haven't heard of a cap on THC levels either.

Dukey1, kids here smoke pot. They get over it quite quickly normally and move on with their lives. Our local park is a favourite spot for kids to go after school. An older friend buys the stuff at our local coffeeshop, they all sit around sharing it, then they go happily on their way home to a mountain of homework. They cause minimum hassle to others and mostly clean up their rubbish too, though that is not always the case of course. Well brought kids.
Those of legal age go to the coffeeshop and stay there.

My sons all tried it. One hated it, one still smokes it occasionally, the third gave it up after a while.
DH smoked at uni, and when with friends in California in the 70s and 80s he also had the odd joint I am sure.
I've never tried it. Never smoked tobacco either. No appeal whatsoever for me.

Dukey1, kids here smoke pot.>

They are normal in every way and on the whole Dutch kids smoke about half as much pot as their French counterparts - where pot is strictly illegal and that is enforced by flics in parks, my son says and random searches - no search warrants needed - and American teens use twice as much pot as the Dutch do.

Legalization or quasi-legailzation as the Dutch model has does not result in increased pot useage amongst kids - in fact about half as many smke in Holland as in the U.S.

Have to research the THC thing - itmay have been one of those proposals that did not pan out - hard to enforce with constant testing, etc.

Potency limits on retail cannabis

Another widely reported move was the 2011 announcement that the Dutch government intended to impose a potency limit of 15% THC on the cannabis sold from the coffee shops. Cannabis above this limit would be classed as a ‘hard’ drug and subject to an enforcement response commensurate with its legal status. This proposed move has not yet been implemented and has been opposed by almost every government office that would be involved in enforcing the limit, including the police, and prosecution and forensic services.13 The current government still intends to implement the measure, but its future is increasingly uncertain. Research from the Trimbos Institute has argued convincingly that the potency threshold is arbitrary and that there is no evidence it would reduce health harms.>

This from this site:

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/cannabis...-not-backwards

So no THC level imposed but says government still has it on their agenda though everyone seems to be against it.

I think many cannabis restrictions are now off the cards. There was a surge of interest when we had a right wing coalition that craved repression. now there is less interest, although a number of mayors are pressing for full legalization. the weirdness of the present practice becomes ever weirder: cannabis use is illegal, but presecution is not enforced, and coffeeshops are allowed to sell, within regulatory limits, but cannot maintain stock and cannot themselves procure. yet everyone knows the stuff comes from somewhere, and this stimulates a healthy cannabis growing sector. Of course, large scale cannabis growers are hunted down, and this is an arms race of sorts between the police and large criminal syndicates. the last few years have shown a spate of crime related liquidations, mainly in amsterdam, and cannabis always plays a role in the activities of these syndicates.

so now, on the one hand we have a fairly repressive climate within government, while the Dutch practice is now being overtaken by full legalization elsewhere.

so now, on the one hand we have a fairly repressive climate within government, while the Dutch practice is now being overtaken by full legalization elsewhere.>

So well said - 10 years ago I never would have dreamt that states here would vote for full legalization yet Holland regresses on the issue. the ballyhooed Dutch tolerance is long gone - in many ways.

Just legalize it and the criminal syndicates will get out of it - sell it just like booze - no criminal syndiate in booze distribution is there? Only during Prohibition here did crime groups profit from booze sales.

Utrecht and Rotterdam both want to grow their own pot to cut out the criminal underworld currently supplying the stuff. The government isn't keen, but elections are on the horizon so who knows what will happen.

If we have elections now, I think there will be a coalition of right wing "liberals" VVD and the neo fascist party it spawned, PVV plus the center-right nominally Christian party, CDA.

That means repression will likely increase.

The resistance against full legalization is mostly caused by the fact that large growers of cannabis grow for the export market. 80% of cannabis is exported, so the impact on this by legalization would be marginal. If anything, without a very good vetting process, crime syndicates would then be given a tantalizing option of "going legal"