DRIVING IN EUROPE
Apr 28th, 2011, 08:33 PM
#1
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DRIVING IN EUROPE
I am OK with driving on the right, have logged over 25,000 miles in USA and Canada, but for some reason I haven't fully defined the thought of driving in Europe is scary. Smaller cars and foreign languages, I guess, plus SO many people.
We have agreed that we will drive in England but not in London; and in France but not in Paris. I would also like to drive from northern Switzerland to Rottweil, avoiding any autobahns on the way.
I find driving in the USA a breeze, well organised and signposted roads and polite drivers, so am very interested in American opinions of driving in Europe - especially France, Germany and Italy. As a no longer young Australian who is terrified of small cars this is something I am a bit worried about.
We have agreed that we will drive in England but not in London; and in France but not in Paris. I would also like to drive from northern Switzerland to Rottweil, avoiding any autobahns on the way.
I find driving in the USA a breeze, well organised and signposted roads and polite drivers, so am very interested in American opinions of driving in Europe - especially France, Germany and Italy. As a no longer young Australian who is terrified of small cars this is something I am a bit worried about.
Apr 28th, 2011, 09:15 PM
#3
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There is an easy remedy to your phobia of small cars: Rent a bigger car ;-)
IMO, there are more important issues to keep in mind:
If your last leg (No. CH-> Rottweil) should be a one-way rental, expect to pay (a sometimes steep) extra fee for dropping off the car in another country.
Another issue of driving through more than one country is that legal requirements still differ in detail: In some countries you need to have hi-viz vests on board or a first-aid kit. In others, you need toll stickers to drive on the motorways. Or a sticker to enter city centers.
I think the AA, the UK auto club, summarizes all those little oddities on its website quite nicely.
Few Germans who drive to France or Italy (and there are 100Ks of them every month) speak either language - except maybe for a few phrases. Most of them survive ;-)
If you get a rental car with GPS, there is little to fear about signage.
If you don't have GPS, keep in mind that most road signs or directions are NOT annexed by "north, south, east, west" but with the name of the next bigger city/cities. Having a map with you helps to understand where you are and where you want to go.
If you feel uneasy about driving, the motorway/autobahns are the safest and easiest ways to go from A to B. No reason to avoid them. Even in Germany, the majority of drivers does not go much faster than 120km/h on unrestricted parts of the autobahn network. Mostly due to the fact that fuel now costs a fortune.
Just don't idle in the passing lane(s) -- which, by the way, is the law in any of the countries you want to drive.
If you still feel uneasy, check if certain legs of your itinerary could not as well be handled by taking the train.
IMO, there are more important issues to keep in mind:
If your last leg (No. CH-> Rottweil) should be a one-way rental, expect to pay (a sometimes steep) extra fee for dropping off the car in another country.
Another issue of driving through more than one country is that legal requirements still differ in detail: In some countries you need to have hi-viz vests on board or a first-aid kit. In others, you need toll stickers to drive on the motorways. Or a sticker to enter city centers.
I think the AA, the UK auto club, summarizes all those little oddities on its website quite nicely.
Few Germans who drive to France or Italy (and there are 100Ks of them every month) speak either language - except maybe for a few phrases. Most of them survive ;-)
If you get a rental car with GPS, there is little to fear about signage.
If you don't have GPS, keep in mind that most road signs or directions are NOT annexed by "north, south, east, west" but with the name of the next bigger city/cities. Having a map with you helps to understand where you are and where you want to go.
If you feel uneasy about driving, the motorway/autobahns are the safest and easiest ways to go from A to B. No reason to avoid them. Even in Germany, the majority of drivers does not go much faster than 120km/h on unrestricted parts of the autobahn network. Mostly due to the fact that fuel now costs a fortune.
Just don't idle in the passing lane(s) -- which, by the way, is the law in any of the countries you want to drive.
If you still feel uneasy, check if certain legs of your itinerary could not as well be handled by taking the train.
Apr 28th, 2011, 09:35 PM
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Thank you for your replies; I never understand the fear of driving in the USA - obviously those who criticise US conditions have never driven in Australia?
And re the bigger car; great idea - what can I get that is over 6 metres long and weighs two tons?
And re the bigger car; great idea - what can I get that is over 6 metres long and weighs two tons?
Apr 28th, 2011, 09:45 PM
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Not American, and therefore used to driving on the proper side, I'd say:
- Road manners, culture and driving generally in Germany compare almost identically with New South Wales/built-up Victoria. Really isn't worth worrying about. Driving speeds on motorways are higher, and very fast drivers assume you'll move over for them - but once you're used to that there's no problem. France isn't materially different.
- Italy really is different. Drivers are convinced they've got faster reflexes than is the case, and motorways are built quirkily (the Italians believe it shows millennia-old enginering skills and meets rhe needs of Italy's fast-reflexed drivers). Rapid changes from frequent gloomy tunnels to intense sunlight, sharp curves, narrow lanes, frequent desely-trafficked stretches and a culture of disregarding legal minutiae make for what motoring bores call exhilarating driving. All Italian towns have dense traffic, drivers who believe parking laws don't apply to them and traffic limiting rules Americans pretend they can't read when the fine turns up.
Personally, I loathe driving in Italy. (London is INFINITELY easier. It's also a great deal easier than Sydney BTW, though there's an inane affectation among visitors to fantasises about "crazy traffic", which just fatuous). However I've been driving in Italy for the past 30-odd years, had one minor accident when driving the Palermo ring road two weeks after passing my home driving test, and have been unscathed since. I'd loathe travelling round without a car far more - though there's absolutely no point in driving if you're visiting only Venice, Florence, rome, Naples and Palermo
Incidentally: not only is London driving a doddle (though navigating in it without a GPS isn't): it's far, far easier than any other British city. In particular: driving in ANY medieval/Tudor city, especially the cycle bus and kamikaze pedestrian-congested ancient university cities must be avoided if you're such a woose as to get old-maidy about London
- Road manners, culture and driving generally in Germany compare almost identically with New South Wales/built-up Victoria. Really isn't worth worrying about. Driving speeds on motorways are higher, and very fast drivers assume you'll move over for them - but once you're used to that there's no problem. France isn't materially different.
- Italy really is different. Drivers are convinced they've got faster reflexes than is the case, and motorways are built quirkily (the Italians believe it shows millennia-old enginering skills and meets rhe needs of Italy's fast-reflexed drivers). Rapid changes from frequent gloomy tunnels to intense sunlight, sharp curves, narrow lanes, frequent desely-trafficked stretches and a culture of disregarding legal minutiae make for what motoring bores call exhilarating driving. All Italian towns have dense traffic, drivers who believe parking laws don't apply to them and traffic limiting rules Americans pretend they can't read when the fine turns up.
Personally, I loathe driving in Italy. (London is INFINITELY easier. It's also a great deal easier than Sydney BTW, though there's an inane affectation among visitors to fantasises about "crazy traffic", which just fatuous). However I've been driving in Italy for the past 30-odd years, had one minor accident when driving the Palermo ring road two weeks after passing my home driving test, and have been unscathed since. I'd loathe travelling round without a car far more - though there's absolutely no point in driving if you're visiting only Venice, Florence, rome, Naples and Palermo
Incidentally: not only is London driving a doddle (though navigating in it without a GPS isn't): it's far, far easier than any other British city. In particular: driving in ANY medieval/Tudor city, especially the cycle bus and kamikaze pedestrian-congested ancient university cities must be avoided if you're such a woose as to get old-maidy about London
Apr 29th, 2011, 02:59 AM
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At 6 meters, the vehicle would be longer than my Chevy Suburban, fine for the Autobahn, but a nightmare to park in Europe!
As an American who has driven in a dozen European countries in the last twenty years, I would welcome the "stay right except to pass" order I see on German roads in America. Americans have erected a few such signs to no apparent effect.
I have found it very easy to get around in Germany. A GPS will be helpful, but the German roads are very well marked. One thing I had to get used to was the little markers on the guard rails indicating the "B" road number.
France and Spain are a different story for me, with Spain being the wooliest. I was rearended there by a large truck when I hesitated a defensive-driving millisecond after a traffic signal turned green. Nevertheless, Spain was by no means as crazy as Mexico or China, where I would never try to drive myself. After reading Flanner's take on Italy, perhaps I would cross it off the driving list, too!
You have already set some good boundaries, such as avoiding London traffic. The closest I came to the City was round the Orbital and in/out of the LHR car hire.
A couple of key points regarding driving:
1) Allow enough time. In trip planning, DW used Google Maps predicted times and multiplied times 2. Although the actual multiplier turned out to be closer to 1.5 in England, we avoided the pressure of feeling late or hurried.
2) Enjoy the spontaneity afforded by the auto. I enjoy the ability to make unscheduled stops when I see something interesting. Light is so fleeting and sometimes I just have to stop and take an unplanned picture.
As an American who has driven in a dozen European countries in the last twenty years, I would welcome the "stay right except to pass" order I see on German roads in America. Americans have erected a few such signs to no apparent effect.
I have found it very easy to get around in Germany. A GPS will be helpful, but the German roads are very well marked. One thing I had to get used to was the little markers on the guard rails indicating the "B" road number.
France and Spain are a different story for me, with Spain being the wooliest. I was rearended there by a large truck when I hesitated a defensive-driving millisecond after a traffic signal turned green. Nevertheless, Spain was by no means as crazy as Mexico or China, where I would never try to drive myself. After reading Flanner's take on Italy, perhaps I would cross it off the driving list, too!
You have already set some good boundaries, such as avoiding London traffic. The closest I came to the City was round the Orbital and in/out of the LHR car hire.
A couple of key points regarding driving:
1) Allow enough time. In trip planning, DW used Google Maps predicted times and multiplied times 2. Although the actual multiplier turned out to be closer to 1.5 in England, we avoided the pressure of feeling late or hurried.
2) Enjoy the spontaneity afforded by the auto. I enjoy the ability to make unscheduled stops when I see something interesting. Light is so fleeting and sometimes I just have to stop and take an unplanned picture.
Apr 29th, 2011, 04:08 AM
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European highways are great, is so easy. I think the routes are so lineal. So don't be panicked about this fact. besides this, at least in Germany, everyone speaks English.
To avoid the big cities, which are a desaster, Paris overall, just drive around the cities, throu the rings/peripherique or whatever the name is.
Cheers!!
To avoid the big cities, which are a desaster, Paris overall, just drive around the cities, throu the rings/peripherique or whatever the name is.
Cheers!!
Apr 29th, 2011, 04:18 AM
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For an illustrated introduction to driving in Europe see http://tinyurl.com/3bc2ax.
Apr 29th, 2011, 04:43 AM
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I often rent the little 1-1.5 liter manuel type cars in Europe, and you really can get 5 people in some of them. I stick to toll roads and major highways and have not had a major problem. Granted Ive been cut off by a family of 4 on a Moped in Italy, humbled by the racers in Germany, restrained by the same roundabout a dozen times, and even given dirty looks by slowing for pedestrians in Greece...I too would like to rent the bigger cars, but with their gas prices and rental prices..the little ones are the best way to go
Apr 29th, 2011, 05:45 AM
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If you are avoiding the autobahn because you just enjoy the scenic byways, that's fine. But if you are avoiding the autobahn because you are nervous about driving on it, don't be. The autobahn is much safer than the scenic byways.
But, again, if you just want the byways because you enjoy getting to out of the way places, that is great.
But, again, if you just want the byways because you enjoy getting to out of the way places, that is great.
Apr 29th, 2011, 06:22 AM
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"For an illustrated introduction to driving in Europe see http://tinyurl.com/3bc2ax."
I like the photo on the website of a group cars turning round when faced with a line of "bollocks". The correct word is "bollards". "Bollocks" is English slang for testicles, and I would not like to be faced with those blocking my way.
I like the photo on the website of a group cars turning round when faced with a line of "bollocks". The correct word is "bollards". "Bollocks" is English slang for testicles, and I would not like to be faced with those blocking my way.
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:48 AM
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"I like the photo on the website of a group cars turning round when faced with a line of "bollocks". The correct word is "bollards". "Bollocks" is English slang for testicles, and I would not like to be faced with those blocking my way."
Do you mind Chartly, I was drinking a cup of tea when I read this, now it all over the monitor screen!
I just had to send an e-mail to the author about his little "balls-up".
Do you mind Chartly, I was drinking a cup of tea when I read this, now it all over the monitor screen!
I just had to send an e-mail to the author about his little "balls-up".
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:13 AM
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I drove in Germany on my first trip to Europe - very easy. I drove on the autobahn, secondary highways, little towns, mountain roads - the signage is fabulous and for the most part, the other drivers are really good.
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:19 AM
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I've only driven in France (I'm American) and it was the same as any place in the US as far as I'm concerned -- it can be difficult in big cities which you don't know, same as usual, it is easy on roads without traffic, etc. I only drive small cars in the US, in fact the car I got for rental in France was slightly larger than my own car, so that is my big fear (I hate big cars). I know French, though, so can read signs if I have to and learned what a few unusual ones in France mean (not unusual eactly, just different) , but other than that, driving is driving. I drive a lot at home and have no problem with maps, so how could there be a problem.
I have lived in several large cities in the US (eg, Los Angeles) so traffic doesn't scare me that much, it's just a little disconcerting when you don't quite know where you are going and looking for something.
I have lived in several large cities in the US (eg, Los Angeles) so traffic doesn't scare me that much, it's just a little disconcerting when you don't quite know where you are going and looking for something.
Apr 29th, 2011, 05:08 PM
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IMHO driving in europe is way easier than in the US. Road are better, signage is better and drivers are MCUH better - and tend to take driving more seriously. (In the US a chimp could get a license.)
If you are a competent, confident driver europe will be a breeze. We have done numerous road trips all over europe and loved all of them.
Agree not to drive in central London or Paris - it's not dangerous - just an exercise in futility - since there is no lace to put a car except an expensive garage.
If you are a competent, confident driver europe will be a breeze. We have done numerous road trips all over europe and loved all of them.
Agree not to drive in central London or Paris - it's not dangerous - just an exercise in futility - since there is no lace to put a car except an expensive garage.
May 1st, 2011, 12:41 AM
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Thank you all; that website on Driving in Europe is a gem. And 6 metres x 2 tons? An ordinary Ford, three at home and a Mercury Crown Marquis I HATED last trip to the US. Swapped it for a Taurus X, much nicer. Later some sort of Camry sized Pontiac, I think it was. Not offensive, just ordinary. Previous trips, Cadillac DTS - lovely cars but very poor lights for night driving so swapped to Fords. Had a Suburban in South Dakota and that was nice too, especially in a huge storm. Had a Taurus years ago in Toronto, 2003 model - YUK!
Bear in mind that our part of Boondocks has a population of 300, the town where I shop 5,000 or so, and the 'City' I go to about once or twice a week 350,000. A long way off London or Paris - even Sydney is much smaller, at least in population.
I am not a nervous driver just don't want more hassle than is necessary. I don't mind what petrol costs and will happily feed a V8 if I can find one - and it won't be 1.5 litres. They are probably OK for cities but I am used to my big bangers and to drive something so different in a strange environment would be an invitation to disaster. We have both formed fixed impressions over the years of what happens when you put your foot down, and if it doesn't happen it will throw off my judgement, badly. Even the wallowing Marquis had some power.
Fortunately all this has become a bit academic as we've put the European trip off until 2013 so we can go back to the USA next year. With luck I will talk him into skipping some parts entirely.
I WILL drive in the Loire Valley, Devon, Cornwall, Germany and probably Switzerland, but NOT Italy. You've confirmed all my worst fears about that and there really doesn't seem to be any need to drive in Italy.
Fingers crossed for Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico - much more my taste.
Bear in mind that our part of Boondocks has a population of 300, the town where I shop 5,000 or so, and the 'City' I go to about once or twice a week 350,000. A long way off London or Paris - even Sydney is much smaller, at least in population.
I am not a nervous driver just don't want more hassle than is necessary. I don't mind what petrol costs and will happily feed a V8 if I can find one - and it won't be 1.5 litres. They are probably OK for cities but I am used to my big bangers and to drive something so different in a strange environment would be an invitation to disaster. We have both formed fixed impressions over the years of what happens when you put your foot down, and if it doesn't happen it will throw off my judgement, badly. Even the wallowing Marquis had some power.
Fortunately all this has become a bit academic as we've put the European trip off until 2013 so we can go back to the USA next year. With luck I will talk him into skipping some parts entirely.
I WILL drive in the Loire Valley, Devon, Cornwall, Germany and probably Switzerland, but NOT Italy. You've confirmed all my worst fears about that and there really doesn't seem to be any need to drive in Italy.
Fingers crossed for Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico - much more my taste.
