mingwei1

Hi everyone, my husband and 2 children (ages 8 and 10) and I are visiting my sister-in-law in Toulouse in May, and we need to make our way back to Paris CDG. On the way down from arriving at CDG, we will have driven through the Dordogne (I may post a question about that too), and on the way back, I'd like to go thru Lyon and Beaune. It doesn't make economical sense for us to train and we'll be driving all the way through. We don't get to travel all that much, so I am in the camp of folks trying to get in as much as we can (while not wanting to be too too rushed either). The first half day from Toulouse (5/12) I am planning to drive thru Carcassone and stop over in Nimes. On 5/13 I was planning to see Pont du Gard, and am interested in Gorges de l'Ardèche and Aven D'orgnac. I was also thinking about Nyons and Dieulefit, and stopping over in Mirmande. That would leave the next day (5/14) going through Lyon, maybe having lunch there, up to Beaune, stopping for some wine shopping, and on to Auxerre where we would spend the night, and the next morning on to CDG where we are taking a 14:15 flight.

I guess my question is whether I should skip either Ardeche and D'Orgnac, or Nyons and Dieulefit (or both), and drive directly from Pont Du Gard to Lyon, and have a little more time for Lyon, Beune and Auxerre. I think I'm more interested in the scenery and wonders of nature as well as the towns and olives, than Lyon, but am I trying to pack in too much in a day, and would I be missing out on Lyon by not stopping for more than a lunch?

What would you do, if you had a choice?

thanks, Ming

StCirq

Why doesn't it make economic sense for you to take the train for at least part of this? Have you figured in the cost of fuel and tolls?

mingwei1

I calculate that if I take the tgv from Lyon to CDG, it will be at least $120 for train fare than cost of 2 additional days of car rental, gas and tolls, plus the range of hotels and pricing is much more restricted. (e.g., I'm planning to stay at a Formule 1 hotel in Auxerre). It is attractive that it cuts 2 hours of drive time off, however.

DougP

If I have the logisitics right, you are planning 3 days (12, 13 and 14th) and part of one more to drive from Toulouse to CDG which is 450 or more miles. If you drive more or less direct you will need to drive approx 120 to 140 miles per day (including some diversions). If you want to leave time to see some of the places you go I think that is about the max you could drive in a day. Choose what you want to see and what you enjoy and calculate your time from that. I don't know if you are aware, but tolls on the direct autoroute will probably be more than 100 euro and fuel is approx $7.00 per US gallon. If you must drive, my suggestion is to stop at one place halfway and explore and enjoy that location. It won't be much fun if even one person in the car says "I'm bored".

StuDudley

Can we talk about simplifying your itinerary so that you won't spend most of your time sitting in a car???

Your current plan:
Day 1 - start the day in Chartres & drive to the Dordogne. That sounds like a 5 hr drive. Then visit a cave or two.

Day 2 - take a canoe trip, and perhaps visit another cave. Drive to Toulouse - about a 2 1/2 hr trip.

Day 3-whenever Visit Sister in law

Day 5 - drive to Nimes (not one of my favorite cities) 3 hrs. Don't know what a drive "thru" Carcassonne is.

Day 6 - See some stuff (incl. another cave) in Provence that is quite far apart from each other.

Day 7 Start the day in Nimes, drive to Lyon for lunch (not practical), on to Beaune for a visit, then to Auxerre. This day is a Mess - probably 6 hrs in the car. Can't be done in 1 day.

Day 8 - From Auxerre, on to CDG for early afternoon flight - good luck.

What to skip??? Just stay in the Dordogne & Toulouse region. Take an early flight from Toulouse to CDG to connect with your flight home.

Stu Dudley

mingwei1

I know it's a lot of driving, but the cost of flying from Toulouse to CDG is prohibitive for us. We're already spending 6 days in Toulouse with family so don't need more days there. Can you help me with why driving to Lyon for lunch and then on isn't practical? Also why it would be a bad idea to go from Auxerre to CDG on a Sunday morning for an early afternoon flight?

thanks, Ming

macanimals

I'm familiar with most of the sights you have included in this 3 day itinerary--I have not read about the rest of your trip (prior). You are way over scheduling and way too optomistic about "driving thru" and "stopping" for lunch etc. I won't get into the debate about driving vs train/airplane but I can't imagine holdig an 8-10 yr old's interest in all this driving and "stopping". Use www.viamichelin.com to calculate driving times and distances. Don't figure on seamlessly dropping into Carcassone, Lyon, the Gorges deL'Ardeche etc.--these all would require a serious stay w/children. Pick one or two--you have a lot of driving! Or as Stu says--stay in Toulouse. You are trying to do too much and it will never work with children.

While I like Dieulefit and Nyons, I would never include them in your itinerary--too far off the autoroute for not enough attraction. Check your maps and the roads you will be traveling on the michelin site. Good luc

StuDudley

Ditto macainmals.

We've spent 10 weeks vacationing in the Dordogne, 18 weeks in Provence, 2 weeks in the Ardeche, and 4 weeks in Burgundy/Beaujolais - so I know your "territory" quite well.

You really only have 1 full day in the Dordogne, 1 1/2 days in Provence, and 1/2 day in Lyon/Burgundy - not much time "being there".

If you just stay in the Dordogne/Tarn/Toulouse area - you'll have plenty of stuff to do without all the time on the road.

Like macanimals suggested, before you go any farther in your trip planning, use viamichelin to determine how much driving time you'll "waste" each day getting from the Dordogne to Toulouse to Nimes to Auxerre to CDG. Also note the toll road cost & fuel cost on viamichelin - and consider that in your financial planning - except add about 50% to the fuel costs.

Stu Dudley

mingwei1

Ok, so I went back to the drawing board and decided to drive from Toulouse to Arles, stay there for 2 nights, drive to Lyon, and take the early train from Lyon to CDG, for flight in early afternoon. How does that sound? thanks for the input,it's very helpful, Ming

StuDudley

>>How does that sound?<<

You are still moving around too much and loosing your limited vacation time to travel in the car. Stay in Avignon, Arles, or St Remy for 3 nights, and take the early TGV from the Avignon TGV station to CDG. Hotel to hotel, it will be about a 3 1/2 to 4 hour trip to Lyon along a very un-scenic freeway (lots of ugly commerce & nuclear power plants) once you get out of Provence. No need to go all the way to Lyon for just a short & possibly un-rewarding visit??

How about the Chartres to Toulouse portion of your plan - that needs some work also, IMO. There are some very interesting places to visit around Toulouse - we've spent about 2 1/2 weeks in that region. How long will you be in Toulouse? Your flight doesn't land in Chartres, so what is your entire plan for CDG to Toulouse?

Stu Dudley

StCirq

I totally agree with Stu. Especially since you have an 8- and 10-year-old along. BTDT and trust me, it will not be fun. Can't you do Chartres as a daytrip from Paris by train and then take the train to Toulouse and rent a car there? You should either be able to get cheap PREM fares or a family discount fare. There is very little of interest, IMO, between Chartres and Toulouse on the autoroute.

Agree there is no point at all in driving from Provence to Lyon for lunch or a brief stop. There is nothing much to see from the car window along the way and the kids will go stir crazy.

StuDudley

Furthermore

Lyon is the second largest city in France (tied with Marseille), and a pain to drive into - even on a Saturday. The train station where the TGV departs (Pt Dieu) for CDG is not close to the area you will want to visit, and too far to walk there also, IMO. So, your current plan:

- Check out of your hotel in Arles, and leave at 9am. Hopefully you'll pick up stuff for breakfast (in the car) the night before in Arles.

- 3 - 3 1/2 hr drive to the Lyon Pt Dieu station (allow time to get lost). Arrive at 12:00 to 12:30

- Return car at the Pt Dieu station - which will hopefully be open for during lunch hour (more times than not - they will be closed on Sat lunch). Carry your bags to a hotel close to the Pt Dieu station & check-in. 30-60 mins. Now it is 12:30 to 1:30.

- Take a taxi to "old town" - 30-45 mins - now it is 1:00 to 2:30.

- Visit old town. Will the kids hold out (no WC) till 10:00 tonight. If not, possibly taxi back to hotel. The hotel is in the "business" section of town, which is usually dead on a Sat night (we've never spent much time in the Pt Dieu area, however)

- Next morning, check out of hotel & catch the TGV.

The TGV station in Avignon is very easy to get in & out of - as long as you can find the section outside of Avignon where the station is located. I advise people to do a "dry run" to the station the day before.

Stu Dudley

mingwei1

Thanks, it's all very helpful. Will look into tgv from Avignon -- I had liked that the train from Lyon would get me to CDG by 9:30 or so, which gives a lot of cushion for checking in, but maybe the train from Avignon would do the same. I also thought about staying in Mirmande prior to driving to Lyon to cut down the drive the next day to an hour and a half rather than 3 hours, though Stu your description of time in Lyon if we do it that way sounds apt. Was going to stay in Novotel in Part Dieu and try to get into old town for a good meal.

On the way to Toulouse (Blagnac, really) from CDG, we planned to stay 3 nights in Paris, pick up rental at Versaille on day 4, see Versailles, drive to Chartres. On Day 5, plan to drive down through Limoges to Dordogne, spending one night and the next day before getting to Blagnac at night. I'm planning to leave our time in Toulouse for my in-laws to give input on and just spending time with family (5 days) before heading out again. I know it's not ideal to have so much drive time with only spending a little time seeing things and being places, but am trying to balance finances and little time with getting to see things that I hope to see, while knowing that our finances may not permit us to come back for a long time. Plan to take books on tapes for the drives, and my kids handle boredom fairly well, so. . . .

mingwei1

I looked up Avignon to CDG for day of departure. If train is on time, I would reach CDG at roughly 10:30. My flight is 14:15 Icelandair. It sounds like enough time if all goes well. Is this a reasonable assumption to make?

thanks, Ming

CaliNurse

I am following your thread,Ming, as a future area visitor, so can't help with specifics, except...
YES that 3.5 hours should be enough time

StuDudley

>>we planned to stay 3 nights in Paris, pick up rental at Versaille on day 4, see Versailles, drive to Chartres<<

Another suggestion.

I think your kids are going to be bored to death with Chartres - especially just after visiting Versailles and Paris. You might be quite bored also. There are nice cathedrals in Paris, Toulouse, and Albi (close to Toulouse). Chartres would not be on my list for a first (and perhaps only) trip to France.

Here is what I would do:

- Stay in Paris for 4 nights, and visit Versailles as a day trip from Paris

- Take the 8:55 train to Brive La Gaillard arriving at 1:18, rent a car there, and visit Collognes la Rouge & Turenne (cute villages close to Brive). There is an hour earlier train to Brive if you want to get an even earlier start.

- Then drive 1 1/4 hrs to Sarlat and stay there for 3 nights.

I think you are grossly underestimating the time it will take you to visit all the caves (lunch closings), canoeing (that will consune a half-day at least), and other sites in the Dordogne. The kids will love the Dordogne with all the medieval castles with turrets, seige warfare exhibits, birds of prey shows, and other "family" stuff. There is another thread running about the Dordogne with kids - click on my name or StCirq's name to find it.

The TGV to airline connection at CDG is quite easy & quick. I've done that 3 times on the day of airline departure. I think the TGV has a better on-time record than a connecting flight to CGD from within France.

To save money on the car rental, rent a manual transmission Diesel.

Stu Dudley

mingwei1

Thanks for the advice. Super helpful!

mingwei1

Stu and others, I'm not seeing an 8:55 train to Brive on either sncf or raileurope , only a 6:37 from Paris Austerlitz and then one after 7 that is almost double the price. Any thoughts on how realistic it is to get to the train station that early, assuming we are early risers?

thanks, Ming

StuDudley

They may not have loaded the summer schedule into the system yet. I use the German web site for train schedules.
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

dates are in DD/MM/YYYY format. Put in a March date and there are additional departures. Hard to imagine that they would reduce the number of departures in the spring/summer. There are other cities you can take the train to - Bordeaux, Libourne (a little closer to the Dordogne than Bordeaux), Perigueux, Limouges, Angouleme. I like Brive because it is close to Collognes - but the others would work fine. Check the train time and driving time after you get off the train for the train schedule that fits your schedule the best.

Betty1 is having problems with a May train from Paris to the Dordogne region, that seems to have disappeared for the dates of her travel. It is a current thread - so read it to get more info.

You can have your hotel in Paris arrange for a taxi pick-up for anytime you want.

Stu Dudley

mingwei1

Now I am thinking of cutting out Versailles and spending an extra day in the Dordogne. Thanks for all your input!