Let's face it, if people normally go around looking like an unmade bed, no amount of advice on a forum is going to make them change their ways when they go abroad.
Mainly because of my age, I try to look kept and ironed and flatter myself that it helps me to get decent service.

Yesterday, I saw a couple where I live.
The man had those half-mast cotton trousers with strings at the bottom of the legs.
He had a white hairy gap between his trousers and his black woolly socks.
He topped the ensemble with a leather Australian hat.
His spouse had shorts and a shiny hat with the cross of St. George on it. I think that it glittered too.
They were British and as a matter of national pride, I challenge any American to look so ridiculous.
Still, it's a free country and so is France.
If tourists want to look stupid and give the locals a laugh, then good luck to them.

Whoops, I meant kempt not kept.

BTW, the site is playing up again.
It takes at least three tries to post anything.

kswl...you are right. i did not intend to be so mean spirited. too much wine and football. i apologise.

i hope you can look past my rudeness and consider the humour value of one american trying to teach another american how to be european. it really is priceless. actually i do find it charming and quaint that they are trying so hard.

French people do not wear shorts EXCEPT when at resorts or when near home is true (I've never seen cut-offs in the city except on Americans).

In Paris dress is smart casual unless you are 16-25 and have a gorgeous body - then feel free to wear what you want.

I agree that you should dress in what's comfortable but comfortable for some also means not being harassed by beggers, pickpockets and others. For help to avoid this do not wear cut-offs and white tennis shoes...

Having people ask you for directions may not mean that you look like a local, they may just be looking for someone to ask who speaks English.


I find myself doing that sometimes if I am not up to the foreign language and I am next to savvy lookiing English speaking tourists.

On my last trip to Rome two British ladies walked up to me and asked which way to the Vatican. They were comfortable asking me and we had a nice chat then they were on their way.

SeaUrchin,

What about when the French ask you for directions in French? Still think they're looking for an American? :)

If you look sharp, you will be treated better no matter where you are. My smart casual clothes (linen or khaki skirts and pants) are often more comfortable than jean shorts and t-shirts.

Walkinaround -

Have been to europe 60+ times. And I have yet to see adult europeans (not children or teens) walking around cities wearing cut off jean shorts. If you see this all the time - please tell me where - so I can go check it out.

It is perfectly true that many adult europeans do wear jeans - in more casuale places. They don;t go to Michelin 3* restaurants wearing tee shirts, levis and gigantic white athletic shoes.

Again - if you have seen this - please tell me where.

Obvsiouly everyone is entitled to wear whatever they want. But if one goes to world capitols and tries to go to truly elegant restaurants and hotels dressed for cleaning out the garage - they can expect to either be turned away - or made to feel uncomfortable (worst table, rushed service to get rid of them etc.)

And I'm not a dear boy - by the way.

And what is priceless about giving sensible advice I fail to see. (I would give the same advice to people coming to New York - and here people dressed like that would be treated the same way at elegant places. And I have seen people dressed like that turned away from restaurants. On one occasion the "gentleman" was told he could not be admitted wearing a tank top and cut-off jeans - that a shirt with collar and long trousers were required.)

aileron, then they would think you speak French or are French.

Why is this subject so popular on this forum. This and that silly Americans and their white sneakers?

One of my two trips to Paris, I went into the Lovre <SP?> Lord help me if I misspelled this to all the Paris nuts, I mean fans. ;)

But I wore a Zz Top T shirt. No one said anything, but I a sure there was some little snit who did not like it. LOL

lammom,

I think it is a valid question. A couple of anecdotes:

1. When I travel to Manhattan to visit friends, I ask what I should bring to wear. I live in a very "teva-central" casual part of the country. Sometimes I need a reality-check on how dressy you need to be to get into some restaurants, clubs, etc. I remember the time that my husband and I, as 25 year olds, visited friends in San Francisco for the weekend, and were mortified that my husband couldn't get into any of the grunge clubs that our friends planned for us to visit because my hubby only brought white tennis shoes with him. We had to buy him a pair of black leather boots the next day - to go with his grungy t-shirts and ripped jeans - go figure:). So, I always ask what the deal is - even in the US - before I pack.

2. I've been to Paris numerous times when I was younger as "the jean, shorts, white tennis shoe" tourist. Once I had to travel there for business. I was shocked at how much better I was treated in a "business casual" wardrobe at the same places that I visited a month before as a tourist. If you look a little sharper, you'll get better service.

3. When I lived in Paris, a friend (mid-60's in age) came to visit. She aked what she should pack. I told her "whatever you wear at home - no worries". She is one of the best dressers that I know. She works at a "tres chic" art gallery and is an incredible dresser - matching shoes, jewelry, etc. - totally put together. When we were in Paris, she stuck out like a sore thumb. She was constantly attracting the "gypsy element" at all the tourist attractions that we visited together. At nicer restaurants, looking around the room, she was focal point. She wore really bright colored clothing appropriate to her climate, but not good for fall/winter in Paris. No white tennis shoes, jeans, just bright colors. About five times, she told me "I wish you would have told me to bring all black. I hate sticking out like this." Being a "fashionista at home", I think this bothered her more than most people, but I thought I'd share the story.

Here's a web page that I wrote that I point my friends to when this comes up. Hope this helps.

http://www.parisescapes.com/paris_wear.html

I just wanted to offer my opinion, although I have never been to Paris. I work as a secretary in a company in Philadelphia that deals with extremely rich clients. Most of these people are old, old money, the kind of people that museums, parks, and hospitals are named after. Many of these folks dress very simply and conservatively. But, no matter how they are dressed, they exude an attitude that lets everyone around them know that they are important. Having this confidence is what causes others (salespeople, waiters, cab drivers) to show respect; it isn't the clothes they wear. If you have fine manners and an education, you can go anywhere.

Christine

People on message boards--or at least certain people--are obsessed with fashion.

Insofar as the Parisians are concerned, no one ever criticized my casual attire (nor was I ever denied a table in a restaurant due to not meetin Fashion Police dictates). Insofar as the shops are concerned, Parisians are delighted to have you spend money in them no matter what you are wearing.

Unless you speak fluent French, the whole idea that you can "blend in" is nuts. The moment you open your mouth, you will be unblended.

When you travel, there is no need anyway to blend in with locals, as locals are dressed for work and you, as a tourist, are more likely to be dressed comfortably to do a lot of walking and sightseeing.

And, yet, we get these threads over and over again. They usually degenerate to personal attacks when the Fashion Police insist that you MUST dress as they say you must. That's nonsense.

Please do not go out and buy a new wardrobe to go to Paris. Just pack what feels right to you and have a wonderful trip!

I sure understand how a person going to Europe for the first time would feel uncertain about what type of wardrobe to pack.

Here are my thoughts, for what they are worth.

First of all, what will the weather be like? There is nothing worse then not having clothes that do not fit in with the climate.

Next, where will you be visiting.
If large cities then takes clothes that you would wear in a large city in the US. If going to casual countryside towns again pack as you would if doing the same in the US etc.

What activities will you be wanting to do? If hiking is your planned activity pack hiking clothes that you would wear when hiking in the US.

What type of restaurants and cultural activities will you be going to. Will you plan on just going to casual places to eat or will you be going to upscale restaurants. Again pack as though you were going to enjoy those type of eating establishments in the US.

Comfortable shoes are an absolute must for tourists as you know doubt will be walking a lot more then you do in your own home town. But if you are going somewhere or attending an event where you would dress "nicer" at home then pack at least one outfit and appropriate shoes etc. for those occassions.

IMHO there is no need to worry about looking like a resident of the European places you will be visiting. But dressing in a sensible and respectable manner for the places you will be visiting and the activities you are planning always works for me. Best regards and happy travels to all.

Well, here is another take on what to wear. I (this is MY opinion) would NOT wear shorts unless it is 100 degrees.
I would wear long lightweight pants (summer) and a short sleeve knit or sports shirt, and if you need comfortable shoes some kind of all dark sneakers, I have black ones that look like shoes.
You are a representative of the US and should behave as a visitor, this is "their" country.
Don't be an obnoxious, loud, ugly american.
I have alwas found that I (we) get better treatment by being nicely dressed, quiet spoken, and pleasant.

But what if you ARE a big loud ugly American? Plastic surgery?

OK, I am getting silly, bye now!

"But what if you ARE a big loud ugly American? Plastic surgery?'

Yeah, I'm glad I'm not that big, or that ugly or that loud!

Is 325 considered big? Do big ears, broken big nose, and bushy eyebrows and big pores make you ugly?

Well, it's not quite THAT funny, but the rear guard trying to uphold the standards of bygone days will always be with us. Might as well let them dress the way they want. It's just a shame to see people getting scared into wearing clothes that they don't want to wear.

"Faux, in point of fact, you really don't know what might have happened had you been to any of "les grandes tables,"

Are we talking super long all you can eat buffet table here?

To the OP: If you will be in Paris this coming week, over the 4th of July period, don't worry a bit about your wardrobe, but do plan on bringing clothes that will keep you cool and comfortable.
It's going to be a HOT week. Temps in the 90s all week, and close to 100 around Thursday.
So take it easy. And if people are rude or abrupt to you, it's most likely to be because they're hot and not because of some steretypical French rudeness.
Here in our part of the UK, it will also be in the 90s most of the week (and Lord help anyone who ride the London tube this week...blecch, it will be well over 100 down there), I plan to move slow, drink lots of cold liquids, and relax.
(Some people may think a week of 90 plus temps are no big deal--but we live in the land of almost no airconditioning, it's very different from having temps in the 90s or above when you go from an air conditioned house to an air conditioned car to an air conditioned office to an air conditioned mall and then back to your air condition home!)

Could somebody copy LoveItaly's message and add it to every question about dress?

He/She has made a lot of extremely sensible comments.
There is nothing to add IMHO

I'd be grateful if someone could explain how an entire city can have a "dress code". I was once refused entry to the Republic of Singapore because of my haircut, and I have no desire to repeat that mortifying experience (even more mortifying was the need to acquire an approved Chinese haircut from the airport barber).

Should I reconsider my plans to visit Paris on sartorial grounds, even though I wouldn't think of wearing shorts or white shoes? We may be travelling by car: do the fashion police man roadblocks as well as airports, bus and rail stations?

I don't know, I was in Paris for 2 days and walked about in my summer garg, a clean t shirt, blue jeans, white socks and sneakers and didn't get thrown out of anyplace.

I even dress that way when attending the theatre in London and they were very happy to seat me in my seat.

Of course I didn't go to any places that would be considered haute cuisine but if they don't want me, I don't want them.

Dress any damn way you please, it won't make any difference unless you really are going to upscale places and have loads of money to spend.

Just try to be clean (as I do).

nytraveler...
first, i did not call you dear boy or even silly boy...reread my post. it was part of a satirical statement and not directed at you.

i don't find it very interesting to argue over fashion as everyone has their own style. but if you must know, a very hot london was filled with people wearing shorts yesterday. shorts, flip-flops or teva type sandals and tshirts was the outfit of choice.

fashion in europe, as everywhere, changes with the wind. currently, the rural trashy look inspired by the american south is still extremely popular in london. so wearing cutoffs and looking like you are cleaning out the garage is considered cool in many circles. pair your cutoffs with a faded t-shirt from camp whatever-awg in arkansas and you will look just like many under 30's in london. obviously, you have never been to hoxton. i'm no fan of this look but just reporting what i see.

the "rules" of the american europhiles are little more than efforts to teach other americans, using worn out stereotypes, that europeans dress more sophisticated than americans.

anyway, it seems that you completely missed the point of my post. it's not to argue over what to wear but to get you to see how funny these posts are from a european perspective. it's the blind leading the blind. an american trying to teach other americans how to act and dress european IS funny.

relax and look at some of these posts from a different perspective...they really are quite funny.

Dressing nicer gets you treated nicer, even here in the US. I understand shorts are considered inappropriate in churches as are no sleeve tops. If it is going to be brutally hot, skirts and capris would be better.
If it were me, I look apple pie and all american so no matter what language I can speak, I am pegged an american a mile away. I was in Paris as a teenager many years ago and I probably did not blend in, but I didn't care too much at the time. :)
I usually dress better on vacation anyway. I guess it's the new clothes I buy for the trip! Have a great trip!

Just back from France. The weather was so hot that I saw almost no black on anyone or scarves for that matter. In Lyon I saw lots of broom stick skirts in any color but mostly brown with a pretty top on the outside and belt worn low. I saw broom stick skirts for sale in Paris but not so many on women. Lots of scarf hems. Lots of sandals, lots of jeans. Lots of linen. Lots of capris on French women.

The only people I saw wearing shorts were American women. They really looked out of place. I don't think shorts were any cooler than a skirt.

While in St. Remy I bought a cotton and raw silk light teal green skirt, calf length, slit in the back with little buttons which I wore with a white v neck sleeveless top with lace trim on the neckline and felt like I halfway blended in.

At the airport I observed a French family leaving on vacation - Mom and daughters were in Levi's and athletic shoes - perhaps they were going to the US and wanted to blend in or perhaps that is just what tourists everywhere are comfortable wearing.

I have never thought people in London or anywhere in Britain dressed particularly stylishly. Some people are nicely dressed but on the whole I have never been impressed with the styles or cut of the women's clothes. The men in London used to be dressed so smartly but I don't see that so much any more.

I wouldn't think the average well dressed or thoughtful tourist that LoveItaly describes would have to worry about what she wears in Britain. I am sure NY'ers could show them some styles from here.

Welcome back Ronda :-)
I hope you've had a great stay in France and you'll write a trip report. It is a pity you didn't have time to pop in Dijon!
You also left too early and missed the football match and all that happiness around... maybe another time! :-)

Hope you had a good trip Ronda. It was hot recently, but this week will be even hotter! I hope all Fodorites traveling to the heatwave regions have hotels with AC.
I've seen those same skirts on sale in Brussels, but like you, haven't seen that many women wearing them on the street. And lots of capri pants...unlike some other posters, I think most women look fine in them.

(the temp in the top floor of our three-storey cottage was 110 degrees today. Fortunately, we have a portable AC unit [the converted attic is also our den] and it's brought the temp down to a balmy 82F)

Yes, we did have a nice trip although it was hot. Sorry to have missed Dijon. It would have been so easy for us to go there but.... Next time. I am currently working on our photos and will let you know when they are ready.

We were in Frankfurt as well so got to get in on the football craze.

110 Degrees! In London now or Brussels, Barbara? It is foggy and cool here in San Jose so I can't complain. My head is in a fog as well and drinking lots of coffee and tea to try and stay awake during the day!

I'm curious about these type of statements... "I don't think shorts were any cooler than a skirt." I don't think that any of us can say what is cooler or warmer for anyone else. I know people who are perfectly fine in hot weather wearing long sleeves, but I prefer to be sleeveless is appropriate. For myself, a skirt is much warmer than capris, but for others it would be the opposite.

In the office where I work, no one can agree on the temperature of the office, it's too hot, it's too cold, it's just right....

So I don't think "any" article of clothing is cooler than another, it's all a matter of personal comfort.

Long skirt no undies beats shorts in my book!

Regarding standing out as an American (based solely on appearance, before you open your mouth): my impression is that this has changed considerably over the years. When I first went to France in the 1960's, it was usually obvious at first glance whether someone on the street was a local or a tourist. Everything was different - the clothes, the shoes, the hairstyles, and the eyeglass frames. The only place it was hard to tell the difference was on the Ile du Levant.

But now, everyone buys from the same multinational companies, people look pretty much alike, and it's often hard to tell the difference. I've never taken bluejeans to Europe before my most recent trip. But on this trip, we did. We wore them in cool weather, and noticed that lots of people were wearing them, locals as well as tourist from many nations.

- Larry

There is not one time when I have been to Paris that someone has not asked me for directions in the local language. When it's French, I can answer them. The rest of the languges are pretty much hit and miss (I can ask "Where are the toilets?" in many languages though).

And I never thought I looked like a local.

Well, I'm going to Paris the first of November this year and I'm just going to be done with it....I'm wearing a black burka!!! But.....now I'm wondering, should the hem be just above the ankle bone or is it better to hit the top of the foot...but if it's hit the top of the foot, is that with or without my boots on? Please help, I'm meeting with my dress maker tomorrow.

lyb: When I observed the American family in shorts, we were on the train. Mom was in great shape as was daughter. They were wearing very short shorts, and tank tops with built in bras and athletic shoes. They were sitting on those yucky red plastic seats to which your legs stick and resting their bare arms and backs on the same yucky seats. I would have prefered not to have my skin touch those seats especially in hot weather. Most local metro trains in paris do not have AC. I think they would have been more comfortable NOT touching the seats and therefore capris or skirts would have been a better choice. Additionally, would you want your skin to touch the seats that appear not to have been washed in a decade? YUCK

I was thinking of this thread this afternoon when I left my office in Paris and waited for the metro at the George V station on the Champs Elysées. I saw every single item that people have said not to wear, including cutoff jeans; half of the people were wearing flipflops or shower sandals, there were plenty of shorts and T shirts and tank tops, without a thought for fashion and only for comfort. Mixed with these people were people leaving offices like me, miserable in normal clothes, women in long flowing skirts that looked really hot (and I mean that in terms of temperature, not allure), ridiculous heeled shoes, men in suits and ties (I don't wear a tie in this season), or even just jeans and a normal shirt.

It was 33° in Paris this afternoon, and I say throw fashion to the wind if you are not working in an office this week.

Kerouac:

You've been posting on this board to know facts are quite irrelevant in this "debate".

The assertion by a native Parisian that there's no dress code in Paris simply cuts no ice with the "well, there is. And if there isn't there should be" brigade.

The charitable would say these people simply practise a different kind of logic from the rest of us: possibly a kind the philo section of your bac just didn't cover.

The less charitable would say there's no point arguing.

We arrived in Paris on a 30 degree Sunday afternoon recently. Most people were dressing for comfort in the hot weather.

Bonjour tout le monde !/Hi, everybody !

Let me say that I loved reading these lines ! You've made my day and now is the time to go to bed on this side of the pond... But it's so hot in Normandy, what am I gonna wear, lolol ???!!! Marie (Rouen, France)

Author: david_west ([email protected])
Date: 06/26/2006, 08:37 am
You need:

Black trousers, stripy breton fisherman's shirt, beret , three day stubble and a string of onions.

Then you'll fit right in (Ignore any advice to the contrary).

Oh and by the way - you have to communicate by the medium of mime - it's what the locals do.

Author: ira
Date: 06/26/2006, 08:38 am
Hi L,

You will find the dress code posted on the front door of the Hotel de Ville, in three languages.

Author: david_west ([email protected])
Date: 06/26/2006, 08:41 am
The Hotel De Ville is also about the best hotel in each town - hence the name.