Dordogne Cave Experience
 

On our trip to Dordogne valley in end May 2010, we were trying to decide any 2 sets of caves amongst the many choices. Being a family with 3 kids 10, 10 and 5, and having a rental car, we chose the caves at Padirac and Rouffignac for the following reasons:

Padirac has an underground boat ride, something that we had not experienced before. We have seen some other cave systems with beautiful stalagmite/ stalactite formations, and were not disappointed with this choice. I would highly recommend it, especially for families because it combines guiided boat experience about 150 below ground level with hiking the ups and down.

For the other choice we wanted to do a cave with paintings and decided on Roufignac over Lascaux II. Roufignac has an underground rickety train that takes you through in complete darkness (apart from the guide's flashlight), and was quite interesting without being overbearing for us. Though Lascaux II are more famous caves, I was having a hard time convincing myself to see painting replicas that were only a few decades old rather than the real thing (unlike Roufignac, where the limited number of paintings are original).

In both the experineces, the presence of train/ boat added an additional element to claim exploration which made the experience quite good. Of course, both the caves were quite cool, with Padirac being wet (with water dropping at several places without necessarily making oyu wet), and Roufignac being dry and somewhat musty perhaps because of lower ceiling height and darkness

Cheers and Happy travels!

Thanks. Really useful info. I am in the middle of planning a Perigord trip and have been having trouble trying to decide on which caves to visit.

I feel the same way about Lascaux, so your info is very helpful.

Any other thoughts from others appreciated.

-Kevin

I thought Padirac was great fun. I enjoyed Roufignac a lot. But it didn't really compare to Lascaux II. You really do forget you're in a reproduction.

Rouffignac does not offer any tours in English. We went twice this year (two different guest couples wanted to see caves) and each guide has a different take when describing the cave paintings.

I have no problems with Lascaux being a reproduction. In a sense one can admire it on two levels: for the work and skill that it took to duplicate what is amazing art. But this year's tour (we went once) was short on explanations and it does feel crowded.

Well, it depends what you want to see in a cave. There are caves with stalagmites/stalactites, which are interesting, and Padirac is certainly a good one.

But if you want to see cave paintings, then Lascaux, despite being a copy is really wonderful. Probably better not to see it in high season, when they are churning people through. A lot of people liek Font de Gaume, which has the advantage of being original, though never as big or diverse as Lascaux. The disadvantage is that, because it has been open for over a hundred years, it has suffered damage. So, when the guide says - here is a painting of a horse, she has to outline it with her lamp for you to see it. At Lascaux, you walk in, they turn the lights on , and it's amazing, all there before you - exactly as it was in the original.

A good compromise might be Pech Merle, near Cahors. It is a really interesting cave for 'cave' things, plus has some paintings. And it accepts more people per day than Font de Gaume, and is probably not as crowded as Lascaux.

And if you are really into caves, have a look at the Grotte de Maxange, near Le Buisson. Discovered in 2000, it has
concretions' that have developed horizontally, unlike other caves.

Thanks for the replies - again really helpful.

I'd like a bit of everything in my caving - amazing natural beauty and of course, painting. Looking to do 4 or 5 caves in total. Less crowded is better for sure and informative guides would be a big plus.

I take your point about Lascaux - but I just know myself and I am sure I wouldn't be able to get past the carbon copy part of it.

My list for the moment looks like this:

Font de Gaume
Grotte de Rouffignac
Gouffre de Proumeyssac
and possibly the Grotte de Maxange (thanks Carlux) which looks really interesting.

Any others in that area to add ?

-Kevin

How about Cougnac - again, fairly small, not too much visited, but interesting, with mostly concretions, but a few paintings. Very fine, needle-like stalactites. I live about 10 minutes away, and it took me almost 15 years to get there, but it was worth it once we finally did.

A little bit of trivia. In Chabrol's masterpiece, Le Boucher, the teacher takes the kids out for the day to Cougnac, after which they find another murder victim and an important piece of evidence. Not that you actually see much of the cave, but since it's one of my favourite movies, taking place in one of my favourite towns, Tremolat, it's nice to have a close-to-home reference

http://www.grottesdecougnac.com/Sitefr/index.htm

Am I nuts? I haven't been to Rouffignac for a few years, but I don't remember any paintings. My recollection is that it is entirely engravings, and mostly about the bear cult, which doesn't interest me much at all compared to the actual chromatic caves. And the train is rather hokey, IMO.

Padirac is like the Luray caves in Virginia - a large array of stalagmites and stalactites, with boats and " gondoliers" to take you on the underground river. An experience, for sure, and certainly a treat for kids, but again a major tourist attraction.

The caves that interest me in the Dordogne are Grotte de Font-de-Gaume and Combarelles ("sister caves" in Les Eyzies), the Grotte du Sorcier (which happens to be next door to my house), Lascaux (because in taking the tour you learn very precisely how the caves were used and how the paintings were conceived), the Grotte du Grand Roc, and the grotte hidden up in the hills near St-Leon-sur-Vezere, the name of which escapes me now.

BTW, Proumeyssac is just a standard stalagmite/stalactite cave and another tourist attraction. You might want to substitute Bara-Bahau, which at least has prehistoric art. La Village Troglodytique de la Madeleine and La Roque-St-Christophe and Cap Abri are also actual prehistoric sites, not just caves with formations.

And to be precise about the geography, the majority of these sites - there are 147 of them in total - are in the Vezere valley, not the Dordogne, and Padirac isn't even in the province of Dordogne.

I found Grotte de Font-de-Gaume outstanding. The paintings are heartbreakingly beautiful. I'd take any opportunity to return in an instant if in the area.

<i>My recollection is that it is entirely engravings, and mostly about the bear cult</i>

Wrong recollection. There are bear scratches on the walls and dens on the floor, but they preceded the historic drawings by millenia, and that is clearly explained. There are engravings, but also monochrome drawings, mainly of mammoths, but also of wild sheep and horses. As for the train, how would you get a group of 20 to the main drawings which are 1 km. into the cave?

hi pg,

it was a few years ago now - 7 I think - when we went to the Dordogne with our kids, then 12 & 15, and we faced the same dilemma. from memory, as well as Lascaux [brilliant, who cares that it's reproduction, especially as the original is unavailable] and Padirac, [a great experience] we saw the Font- de-Gaume and Rouffignac, all of which we enjoyed.

we also saw the Grotte du grand roc and st. Christophe. If all these seems a bit much, it was raining for quite a lot of the time when we were there and caves are ideal in those circumstances!

Lascaux II -- we didn't go for the first five years we lived here, because it is a reproduction. Then we went. Now we recommend to ALL our guests as a first visit before seeing other caves as the tours are in English, and visitors get a great introduction to the entire subject of prehistoric art. Think of it as a Intro Course being taught in a living lab of sorts.
If you are interested in prehistoric art of the region, and there is an excellent lecture and video in English available where you could experience a passionate and informative brief overview of the subject matter, would you refuse to go? The Lascaux II visit is that, and more...because you're getting that lecture and background in an actual replica that shows you the true original beauty of the art.

But if you're actually not that interested in the knowledge base, and the information provided by those tour guides, and prefer to visit other caves "blind" and read about what you were looking at later, then skip it.

I still think it's a valuable starting point for any visit to the other caves and prehistoric sites in the region.

We visited five caves this past May. Lascaux II - good info in English and a good starting place for cave info, Font de Gaume, Rouffignac (be sure to bring warm clothes - the coldest of the caves for us), Cougnac and Pech Merle. Our favorites were Cougnac - two caves, one with stalagmites and stalactites and one with those PLUS prehistoric paintings, and Pech Merle. We also went to Abri du Cap Blanc (sculpted horse was a stand-out). "NEXT" visit, we'd go to the Grotte des Combarelles.

We went to three caves on our trip - Pech Merle, Font de Gaume and Lascaux II. My favortie was Font de Gaume (agree with julia 1 - it was breathtaking), my husband liked Pech Merle best. Our least favorite was Lascaux but I am glad I saw it. Really Lascaux was the reason I begin planning the trip. Happy travels!!!

La_Tour_de_Cause .........Lascaux II -- .........

Ditto

((I))

Kevin - I think you'll pass right next to Peche Merle on your driving rout to the Dordogne. I sure wouldn't miss it !!! I think it is the only cave with footprints & handprints. Do an "up & back along" to Figeac (visit) along the Cele & then the Lot river if you have the time.

Stu Dudley

We will be visiting the Dordogne next May and are looking at cave visits. I have one question: my husband really doesn't like heights (he's acrophobic). In a building he doesn't like it much above the fourth floor or so -- third floor in Europe. Of all the caves are there any we should rule out because you spend time up high on a rickety, see-though staircase?

Mimar
The caves are below ground - but there are some spots where you are on a ledge with a big drop below you. Most are not - Lascaux, Font de Gaume, Granc Roc, Rouffignac and Peche Merle (I believe). I think Gouffre de Proumeyssac might be trouble and Padirac is a huge hole that you can descend down into via stairs or an elevator. I don't recall if the elevator has glass doors or not.

Obviously, the caves that have primarily pre-historic cave paintings won't be a problem. Cro Magnon man would not venture too far into a cave without light if there were steep drops all around.

Stu Dudley

At Padirac, you walk down a whole load of rickerty steps and come back up in an old rickerty lift.

probably not one for your DH!

Kevin, I understand what you mean about not being that interested in Lascaux II as it's a reproduction. I kind of felt the same way, and unfortunately couldn't get that out of my mind when touring. I booked an English tour, but ended up with a large Japanese group whose guide was speaking Japanese loudly. I think I was the only English-speaking person on the tour! It wasn't the greatest experience for me - but maybe would have been better under different circumstances.

Font de Gaume, on the other hand, was a wonderful, awe-inspiring experience. That was inspite of being with a small group of too-talkative American women. They were talking to each other about other things while the wonderful tourguide was trying to explain the paintings. Embarrassing (me being an American!).
Anyway, Font de Gaume is well worth it.

I think my favorite, though, was Pech Merle, which has a little of everything, and is not overrun with tourists. Actually, it was definitely my favorite. Padirac was interesting, but definitely a "tourist attraction". I was there in May. I imagine in the summer there must be really long lines to get in. However, it can accommodate a lot of people at once.

We went to Pech Merle in May. We enjoyed it but even though it wasn't busy it did feel rushed - and we overstayed our 50 minutes and had over an hour in there.
I hate to think what it is like in summer.

We also visited Grotte de Presque, in Lot, since it was close to where we stayed. It is a standard stalagmite/stalactite cave, but very good. Not large and only found when the road was built - and even then not explored for another 100 years. the guide spoke English, we were allowed to take as many photos as we wanted and we thoroughly enjoyed it.
http://www.grottesdepresque.com/en/index.php

Fortunately, we will be going during the off-off season, so I understand we won't have to fight the crowds. On the downside, it seems as if many caves (as well as castles) have much restricted opening days and times. We'll just have to work around that.

And expecting pretty much lousy weather - in fact, a bit of rain sounds really nice right about now !

Really appreciate all the insight. I'm amazed at how much there is to see and do in the area and since I am sure we won't get to even half of it in 10 days, it's nice to have the input to try to narrow things down.

Will definitely give Lascaux a miss. Seems as if a number of the other caves have very good guided tours and figure we will start with the museum in Les Eyzies to get a good overall grounding.

-Kevin

Well the great thing about caves is that bad weather doesn't matter too much. Caves are cool and damp anyway.

Well, we just came back from Lascaux, which I have now seen 5 or 6 times, and every time I am blown away by how beautiful it is. Even today, when they were taking tours through every 10 minutes, (staggered) and I had no great expectations. But since our visitor could only come this week, off we went.

I still find the Salle des Taureaux incredibly moving. I've never seen a reproduction that does it justice in any way. So obviously I recommend Lascaux.

My hair stands on end every time I visit Lascaux. I'm sorry you've chosen not to go there. I don't understand the "it's only a reproduction" mentality, because in order for there to BE a reproduction, amazing artists and craftsmen had to figure out, in laborious detail, exactly how those paintings were created and recreate them exactly the same way. So not only do you get to see exactly what you would see in the original, you get the benefit of a thorough explanation of the techniques used to create it - something you don't get in any of the other caves.

Hear hear!

My thoughts also.

We put off Lascaux II on the first few visitis to the Dordogne because it was not "the real thing". We finally went there on a later trip and it is amazing. Took my father in law there several years later after visiting Font de Gaume & Pech Merle - and this was his favorite cave also. He thought Font de Gaume was not that interesting.

Stu Dudley

Hmmm... 3 people I truly respect pushing a visit ? I'll have to give it some more thought.

I am sure if no one told me it was a reproduction, I'd happily go and be amazed and think it was well worth the price of admission.

And it's clear that the technique involved in reproducing so exactly something so ancient is pretty impressive.

And yet, I kind of like the fact that there is this truly marvelous, incredibly significant piece of the world's patrimony that is being protected from the ravaging hordes and so I won't get to see it and can only read about it or watch a documentary about it and imagine what it must be like in person.

For those who have been, is the Museum in Eyziès worthwhile ? I was thinking of starting there to get the background and understanding before venturing out into the caves.

-Kevin

Here's another thing about Lascaux: obviously, with all the years of foot traffic, the paintings in the original caves have faded. At Lascaux, you can see just how vivid and brilliant they were when first painted.

And I'm not sure you're going to get much education about cave art techniques, or even caves, at the museum in Les Eyzies. It's pretty much just stones and bones. I haven't been since they totally renovated it a few years ago since I have plenty of stones and bones in my own front yard, so maybe someone else can chime in.

The maison de la presse in Les Eyzies has an impressive collection of books, many in English, about cave art and all things prehistoric. The tourist office has a few good ones, too.

The renewed museum at Les Eyzies is far more than stones and bones, although I do not recall much on cave paintings. See pictures 19-21 in this set:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7623164797649/

'Here's another thing about Lascaux: obviously, with all the years of foot traffic, the paintings in the original caves have faded. At Lascaux, you can see just how vivid and brilliant they were when first painted.'

Well, that's my feeling exactly about Font de Gaume. It's amazing to see the original - but you can't see it the same way you can see Lascaux. In Font de Gaume, the guide has to really show you where the various lines begin and end. The cave has been open for a long time, and has suffered.

At Lascaux, however, the colours are as they were originally - both in the cave and in the reproduction. You walk in, and 'wow' it's right there. What I'd suggest, though not possible for very many people, is to go on a cold Februrary day just after they reopen, following the January holiday. We did that, and were the ONLY TWO people in the cave. No one else waiting to come in, a guide all our own. But even today, with hordes of people, it's still magic.