Dordogne and Provence with teens 18 days
Jan 12th, 2013, 12:53 PM
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Dordogne and Provence with teens 18 days
I thought I might post my skeletal itinerary even though it has lots of holes. I’m getting a little bogged down, and ready to get some outside ideas.
I've read this board extensively, as well as the relevant portions of the 4 Michelin books covering our route, and have determined the trip will be fantastic no matter what, but I’d still like to minimize car time (while not compromising the “highlights” mentality of the trip) and try to set up the widest variety of experiences. For example if we visit two abbeys along during the trip, as much as I’d like to stop at the smaller intimate ones, for this trip we’ll try and hit the two most “wow” abbeys.
We’re a family of 4, two boys 13 and 15, so for this reason I think I will try and stick with the “impressive” highlights of each area. My wife and I would love to visit and explore all the small towns along the way, but this wont fly with the boys. The trick will be to say, have lunch in a small town but get “lost” trying to find the restaurant.
Flying into Lyon. All reservations are cancelable, so not locked into any timeline yet.
Day 1 Thursday: arrive Lyon at 2:30, pick up car and drive to Le Puy (reservations secured). Recover
Day 2-3: originally thought about overnighting in Salers and then in St Cere area, but now wondering if we should instead drive from Le Puy to Albi (Google says a 3:30 drive on N88, is this realistic?). Overnight Albi, head north to see small towns and overnight in St Circ Lapopie. These would be mutually exclusive – we’ll either see one area or the other, so I think the Albi area looks more dramatic?
Day 4 Sunday: (if via St Circ) Pech Merle am, Gouffre de Padirac pm, overnight Rocamadour (reservations secured at Best Western).
Days 5 -9: reservations secured at La Villa des Consuls in Sarlat.
Day 10 (Saturday) overnight Toulouse
Day 11 (Sunday) Toulouse day, late lunch Castelnaudary, Carcassone early evening, drive to near Peyrepertuse for overnight.
Day 12: Peyrepertuse, swimming, Queribus, head south to overnight near Abbeye St Martin
Day 13: Abbey St Martin, Serrabone and environs, hopefully more swimming. Overnight Montpellier or nearby.
Day 14-18 Stay in Uzes(?)
Day 19, last day, visit Orange(?) catch 7:30pm flight from Lyon airport
Is it “worth” heading to the Abbey St. Martin for a day? Peyrepertuse and St. Martin appeal to me on paper as “wilderness” days where we can stretch our legs and do some swimming in mountain streams, in addition to the obvious highlights. Anything comparably impressive in the Tarn Gorge area (or is it more impressive) so we could maybe drive a little less?
The only areas I’m locked into (mentally) are Dordogne and Provence. If there are opinions as to good compliments to these areas other than the ones I picked along our route, I would love to hear ideas.
Only 5 nights in Sarlat, so is it a good idea to spend one day seeing Hautefort and Perigueux, or should we just stick closer to home?
Thanks!
I've read this board extensively, as well as the relevant portions of the 4 Michelin books covering our route, and have determined the trip will be fantastic no matter what, but I’d still like to minimize car time (while not compromising the “highlights” mentality of the trip) and try to set up the widest variety of experiences. For example if we visit two abbeys along during the trip, as much as I’d like to stop at the smaller intimate ones, for this trip we’ll try and hit the two most “wow” abbeys.
We’re a family of 4, two boys 13 and 15, so for this reason I think I will try and stick with the “impressive” highlights of each area. My wife and I would love to visit and explore all the small towns along the way, but this wont fly with the boys. The trick will be to say, have lunch in a small town but get “lost” trying to find the restaurant.
Flying into Lyon. All reservations are cancelable, so not locked into any timeline yet.
Day 1 Thursday: arrive Lyon at 2:30, pick up car and drive to Le Puy (reservations secured). Recover
Day 2-3: originally thought about overnighting in Salers and then in St Cere area, but now wondering if we should instead drive from Le Puy to Albi (Google says a 3:30 drive on N88, is this realistic?). Overnight Albi, head north to see small towns and overnight in St Circ Lapopie. These would be mutually exclusive – we’ll either see one area or the other, so I think the Albi area looks more dramatic?
Day 4 Sunday: (if via St Circ) Pech Merle am, Gouffre de Padirac pm, overnight Rocamadour (reservations secured at Best Western).
Days 5 -9: reservations secured at La Villa des Consuls in Sarlat.
Day 10 (Saturday) overnight Toulouse
Day 11 (Sunday) Toulouse day, late lunch Castelnaudary, Carcassone early evening, drive to near Peyrepertuse for overnight.
Day 12: Peyrepertuse, swimming, Queribus, head south to overnight near Abbeye St Martin
Day 13: Abbey St Martin, Serrabone and environs, hopefully more swimming. Overnight Montpellier or nearby.
Day 14-18 Stay in Uzes(?)
Day 19, last day, visit Orange(?) catch 7:30pm flight from Lyon airport
Is it “worth” heading to the Abbey St. Martin for a day? Peyrepertuse and St. Martin appeal to me on paper as “wilderness” days where we can stretch our legs and do some swimming in mountain streams, in addition to the obvious highlights. Anything comparably impressive in the Tarn Gorge area (or is it more impressive) so we could maybe drive a little less?
The only areas I’m locked into (mentally) are Dordogne and Provence. If there are opinions as to good compliments to these areas other than the ones I picked along our route, I would love to hear ideas.
Only 5 nights in Sarlat, so is it a good idea to spend one day seeing Hautefort and Perigueux, or should we just stick closer to home?
Thanks!
Jan 12th, 2013, 01:42 PM
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Where to begin...? In a nutshell, I'd simplify the trip considerably.
I don't see flying into and out of Lyon as logical for this trip. Heading down to Albi and then to the Dordogne and then back to Toulouse, then over to Cathar country and back to Provence, then up to Lyon again seems like wasteful circling around.
I'd fly into Paris and grab a train right to Brive. You're giving very short shrift to the Dordogne, especially with boys 13 and 15. They could easily be amused and kept active there nonstop for two weeks or more. I can't see going to Cathar country for swimming when you can swim all over the place in the Dordogne, in the river and lakes. And if you do stay only 5 days there, or even a week, no, don't bother with Hautefort or Périgueux (both perfectly fine places but I can't imagine boys of that age getting much out of either when there are so many more appealing venues).
After the Dordogne, you can head to Albi (yes, it's FAR more worthy of a visit than St-Cirq-Lapopie, which is really just a schlocky tourist venue in a dramatic geographical setting - Pech-Merle, though, is certainly worth a visit if you're not caved out after the Dordogne) and Toulouse and Carcassonne, then continue to Provence and extend your stay there and fly out of Marseilles, or Nice if you care to go to the Med. Uzès is a lovely town, but again...only 4 days minus the driving time to get there? There's so much to see in that neck of the woods...St-Rémy, Les Baux, Arles, the Camargue, Pont du Gard, Avignon...
I don't know the Abbaye St-Martin, but there are abbeys all over the place, including a beautiful one in Cadouin in the Dordogne. And of course Sénanque in Provence.
From what you've listed here, I don't get the impression that you're focusing much on what boys of that age will enjoy doing. They will love the Dordogne (canoeing, kayaking, rock climbing, cave explorations, spear-throwing exhibits, trébuchet exhibits, warfare museums in fortified castles, horseback riding, swimming....). They would love the Camargue (wild horses, flamingos, cowboys, salt fields, swimming...) and Les Baux and the Pont du Gard (you can swim there too). I'd get them immersed in research about these places so that you don't just end up driving them around to this place and that that appeals to you.
Good luck with the planning.
I don't see flying into and out of Lyon as logical for this trip. Heading down to Albi and then to the Dordogne and then back to Toulouse, then over to Cathar country and back to Provence, then up to Lyon again seems like wasteful circling around.
I'd fly into Paris and grab a train right to Brive. You're giving very short shrift to the Dordogne, especially with boys 13 and 15. They could easily be amused and kept active there nonstop for two weeks or more. I can't see going to Cathar country for swimming when you can swim all over the place in the Dordogne, in the river and lakes. And if you do stay only 5 days there, or even a week, no, don't bother with Hautefort or Périgueux (both perfectly fine places but I can't imagine boys of that age getting much out of either when there are so many more appealing venues).
After the Dordogne, you can head to Albi (yes, it's FAR more worthy of a visit than St-Cirq-Lapopie, which is really just a schlocky tourist venue in a dramatic geographical setting - Pech-Merle, though, is certainly worth a visit if you're not caved out after the Dordogne) and Toulouse and Carcassonne, then continue to Provence and extend your stay there and fly out of Marseilles, or Nice if you care to go to the Med. Uzès is a lovely town, but again...only 4 days minus the driving time to get there? There's so much to see in that neck of the woods...St-Rémy, Les Baux, Arles, the Camargue, Pont du Gard, Avignon...
I don't know the Abbaye St-Martin, but there are abbeys all over the place, including a beautiful one in Cadouin in the Dordogne. And of course Sénanque in Provence.
From what you've listed here, I don't get the impression that you're focusing much on what boys of that age will enjoy doing. They will love the Dordogne (canoeing, kayaking, rock climbing, cave explorations, spear-throwing exhibits, trébuchet exhibits, warfare museums in fortified castles, horseback riding, swimming....). They would love the Camargue (wild horses, flamingos, cowboys, salt fields, swimming...) and Les Baux and the Pont du Gard (you can swim there too). I'd get them immersed in research about these places so that you don't just end up driving them around to this place and that that appeals to you.
Good luck with the planning.
Jan 12th, 2013, 01:59 PM
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Don't bother with Toulouse unless you have a specific reason to stay there. Smaller towns are preferable for overnight stays. You might want to organize your itinerary as we did, going from <i>plus beau village</i> to the next, although I think that St. Cirq-la-Popie is not worth the stop once you have seen Domme, La Roque-Gageac, Collonges-la-Rouge (on the way to Albi), and any other village that strikes your fancy. Michelin does have a map of France where all these villages are indicated. If the children like train rides, the one going from Prades to La Tour de Carol might be interesting (one of the adults taking the car up to avoid a round trip).
An alternative to going to the Pyrénées orientales would be to stay on the southern edge of the Massif Central, going up the Gorges du Tarn. I think that Le Puy-en-Velais is worth a detour. You might want to read my trip report from last summer which includes a trip from the Dordogne to Nice; click on my name to find it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...th/4358891282/
I question the idea of swimming in mountain streams. They tend to be fast flowing, rocky and shallow, not to speak of being very cold.
An alternative to going to the Pyrénées orientales would be to stay on the southern edge of the Massif Central, going up the Gorges du Tarn. I think that Le Puy-en-Velais is worth a detour. You might want to read my trip report from last summer which includes a trip from the Dordogne to Nice; click on my name to find it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...th/4358891282/
I question the idea of swimming in mountain streams. They tend to be fast flowing, rocky and shallow, not to speak of being very cold.
Jan 12th, 2013, 03:25 PM
#5
walker - i can only speak from my own experience of travelling with our two kids which is generally that they [and therefore we] had a better time when we stayed put as much as possible.
so we might follow a day pursuing some activity with an excursion somewhere, and I agree with St. Cirq that if you were to adopt that approach, you could easily fill whole week in the Dordogne alone.
of course you do know your kids best, but my experience of my son is that at age 13/15, he was more interested in doing rather than seeing, and that what I think is impressive he might not - and one abbey, however impressive, might well suffice!
so we might follow a day pursuing some activity with an excursion somewhere, and I agree with St. Cirq that if you were to adopt that approach, you could easily fill whole week in the Dordogne alone.
of course you do know your kids best, but my experience of my son is that at age 13/15, he was more interested in doing rather than seeing, and that what I think is impressive he might not - and one abbey, however impressive, might well suffice!
Jan 12th, 2013, 06:56 PM
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I forgot the dates: July 18 to Aug 5. Prime time.
<it`s so nice when other people know your family better than you do, isn`t it>
Actually, I am appreciative of all the opinions here. There are some excellent points, and of course it's up to me to decide if that would work best for us.
StCirc, thanks. I wasn't clear. I've already booked tickets to Lyon, so that is where we're starting and ending from. Also, it would take the proverbial wild horses to dissuade me from the two pillars of this itinerary - Dordogne and Provence. The question I'm trying to answer is do I reallocate time from those destinations to the places we'll pass by on the way between them.
< Uzès is a lovely town, but again...only 4 days minus the driving time to get there? There's so much to see in that neck of the woods...>
Hopefully that is the kind of thing you folks with experience can help me with. There’s plenty to see everywhere, but it is not important to me to see any one area “in depth.” I would though like to hear about better alternatives that we may see somewhere else on our route (ala St Martin Abbey).
Thanks for the advice about skipping Périgueux.
< From what you've listed here, I don't get the impression that you're focusing much on what boys of that age will enjoy doing.>
Well who’s paying for this trip?
< I'd get them immersed in research about these places >
Excellent idea. They are already Greek and Roman history freaks, which is why Provence will give the Dordogne a run for its money.
Michael, I am leaning towards dropping Toulouse as well, thanks.
< I question the idea of swimming in mountain streams. They tend to be fast flowing, rocky and shallow, not to speak of being very cold.>
I had seen some pictures of attractive looking “swimming holes” like Duilhac Cascades near Peyrepertuse. I’ve seen pictures of some better looking spots, but didn’t bookmark the pages.
< i can only speak from my own experience of travelling with our two kids which is generally that they [and therefore we] had a better time when we stayed put as much as possible.>
5 nights in one place is a long time for us, but I agree on doing over seeing, I think St Martin Abbey for example would fit the bill for “doing,” especially if we can combine it with a longer approach hike. As I mentioned, and cute town stops will be for meals, not sipping wine in the square. My first itinerary idea was a serious hiking and mountain bike trip to the Italian Dolomites and Lakes region, but the equipment issues more than I cared to worry about. So “doing” is foremost in my mind.
<it`s so nice when other people know your family better than you do, isn`t it>
Actually, I am appreciative of all the opinions here. There are some excellent points, and of course it's up to me to decide if that would work best for us.
StCirc, thanks. I wasn't clear. I've already booked tickets to Lyon, so that is where we're starting and ending from. Also, it would take the proverbial wild horses to dissuade me from the two pillars of this itinerary - Dordogne and Provence. The question I'm trying to answer is do I reallocate time from those destinations to the places we'll pass by on the way between them.
< Uzès is a lovely town, but again...only 4 days minus the driving time to get there? There's so much to see in that neck of the woods...>
Hopefully that is the kind of thing you folks with experience can help me with. There’s plenty to see everywhere, but it is not important to me to see any one area “in depth.” I would though like to hear about better alternatives that we may see somewhere else on our route (ala St Martin Abbey).
Thanks for the advice about skipping Périgueux.
< From what you've listed here, I don't get the impression that you're focusing much on what boys of that age will enjoy doing.>
Well who’s paying for this trip?
< I'd get them immersed in research about these places >
Excellent idea. They are already Greek and Roman history freaks, which is why Provence will give the Dordogne a run for its money.
Michael, I am leaning towards dropping Toulouse as well, thanks.
< I question the idea of swimming in mountain streams. They tend to be fast flowing, rocky and shallow, not to speak of being very cold.>
I had seen some pictures of attractive looking “swimming holes” like Duilhac Cascades near Peyrepertuse. I’ve seen pictures of some better looking spots, but didn’t bookmark the pages.
< i can only speak from my own experience of travelling with our two kids which is generally that they [and therefore we] had a better time when we stayed put as much as possible.>
5 nights in one place is a long time for us, but I agree on doing over seeing, I think St Martin Abbey for example would fit the bill for “doing,” especially if we can combine it with a longer approach hike. As I mentioned, and cute town stops will be for meals, not sipping wine in the square. My first itinerary idea was a serious hiking and mountain bike trip to the Italian Dolomites and Lakes region, but the equipment issues more than I cared to worry about. So “doing” is foremost in my mind.
Jan 12th, 2013, 07:35 PM
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would be interested in hearing what you decided to do and where you decided to stay. We are planing 7 days travelling by car from Paris to Barcelona. then another 7 days travelling from Barcelona to someone in the lake como area. Any advice would be great
Jan 13th, 2013, 05:59 AM
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You're welcome. And aside from the Roman aspect, from Arles, it's an easy day trip to the Camargue and a swim at the beach (fantastic one at Saintes-Maries). I'm betting that after all the sightseeing you'll have done to that point, a few hours relaxing on the beach will be a hit with teenagers and parents alike....
- Kevin
- Kevin
Jan 13th, 2013, 07:36 AM
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Yes, I will have to schedule in some relaxing activities.
I'm about to put down a deposit on a gite in Sarlat, a house just outside of town with a garage but just a 3 minute walk to the center of town. That would mean 7 nights in Sarlat, which I doubt anyone will tell me is too long.
When I confirm this, The first half of the trip will be:
Thursday: Arrive Lyon, drive to Le Puy for overnight.
Friday: Drive to overnight in Rocamadour.
Saturday: 7 nights Sarlat gite.
I'm about to put down a deposit on a gite in Sarlat, a house just outside of town with a garage but just a 3 minute walk to the center of town. That would mean 7 nights in Sarlat, which I doubt anyone will tell me is too long.
When I confirm this, The first half of the trip will be:
Thursday: Arrive Lyon, drive to Le Puy for overnight.
Friday: Drive to overnight in Rocamadour.
Saturday: 7 nights Sarlat gite.
Jan 13th, 2013, 08:39 AM
#12
walker - i like the idea of the gite in Sarlat - and as you predict, i don't think that a week will be too long. we spent a week in a gite nearby, and we ran out of time, not things to do.
does the gite have a pool? I think that would be essential in July/Aug, especially as it's unlikely to have A/C.
does the gite have a pool? I think that would be essential in July/Aug, especially as it's unlikely to have A/C.
Jan 13th, 2013, 08:50 AM
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Oh, and don't overnight right IN Rocamadour (it has little appeal in that regard). Stay here: www.domainedelarhue.com
Jan 13th, 2013, 09:07 AM
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Outside of the old town, I should have said:
http://www.ownersdirect.co.uk/france/FR16221.htm
Google maps says 5 minutes, the landlord says 3.
No pool, and the A/C issue is concerning. Not so much during the day, but at night. Isn't it usual for the temp to drop down at night?
St Circ, I saw that place you recommend and liked it and I liked the hour walk to Rocamadour from there. Do you think there is no advantage to staying in town and "closing and opening up shop" early and late? I must confess I am only assuming we can wander around the good bits during the early or late hours.
http://www.ownersdirect.co.uk/france/FR16221.htm
Google maps says 5 minutes, the landlord says 3.
No pool, and the A/C issue is concerning. Not so much during the day, but at night. Isn't it usual for the temp to drop down at night?
St Circ, I saw that place you recommend and liked it and I liked the hour walk to Rocamadour from there. Do you think there is no advantage to staying in town and "closing and opening up shop" early and late? I must confess I am only assuming we can wander around the good bits during the early or late hours.
Jan 13th, 2013, 09:12 AM
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<i>Thanks for the advice about skipping Périgueux. </i>
If staying in a self-catering gite and doing some of your own cooking, the Wednesday market in Périgueux is superior to Sarlat's Saturday market, especially if you like fish--checkout the fish monger in front of the cathedral. One could spend a day in Périgueux between the market, the old town and la Vésunna.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...21148969/show/
If staying in a self-catering gite and doing some of your own cooking, the Wednesday market in Périgueux is superior to Sarlat's Saturday market, especially if you like fish--checkout the fish monger in front of the cathedral. One could spend a day in Périgueux between the market, the old town and la Vésunna.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...21148969/show/
Jan 13th, 2013, 09:31 AM
#17
somehow i just lost my [too] long reply to you, but have you looked here?
http://en.gites-de-france.com/
or for something slightly more up-market, here:
http://www.french-country-cottages.co.uk/
July/Aug can be very hot - 2-3 years ago we rented a gite in the southern loire [further north than the Dordogne] in July, and at night it was well over 30C. you are unlikely to find A/C but with lads of that age, i would want access to a pool.
http://en.gites-de-france.com/
or for something slightly more up-market, here:
http://www.french-country-cottages.co.uk/
July/Aug can be very hot - 2-3 years ago we rented a gite in the southern loire [further north than the Dordogne] in July, and at night it was well over 30C. you are unlikely to find A/C but with lads of that age, i would want access to a pool.
Jan 13th, 2013, 09:44 AM
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<<Isn't it usual for the temp to drop down at night?>>
What time of year are you going? It can be hot as blazes in July and August and not much relief at all at night. That said, I don't have AC in my house and I've managed just fine for 20 years with fans. I don't think you'll suffer. That's an interesting rental property - looks quite modern and commodious, but I do think you might want to look for a place with a pool, assuming this is a high-season rental. There are municipal pools, of course - Le Bugue has a nice one that costs 2 euros - but it's really nice to have an evening swim on those hot summer nights.
<<Do you think there is no advantage to staying in town and "closing and opening up shop" early and late?>>
No advantage at all IMO. Apart from the pilgrimage aspect and the fairly interesting geography, it's a kitschy, unappealing place full of T-shirt and junk souvenir shops. I'd rather stay in just about any nearby town than actually in Rocamadour itself. The Domaine de la Rhue is a gorgeous property with lovely hosts.
I agree with Michael about the Périgueux market and old town.
What time of year are you going? It can be hot as blazes in July and August and not much relief at all at night. That said, I don't have AC in my house and I've managed just fine for 20 years with fans. I don't think you'll suffer. That's an interesting rental property - looks quite modern and commodious, but I do think you might want to look for a place with a pool, assuming this is a high-season rental. There are municipal pools, of course - Le Bugue has a nice one that costs 2 euros - but it's really nice to have an evening swim on those hot summer nights.
<<Do you think there is no advantage to staying in town and "closing and opening up shop" early and late?>>
No advantage at all IMO. Apart from the pilgrimage aspect and the fairly interesting geography, it's a kitschy, unappealing place full of T-shirt and junk souvenir shops. I'd rather stay in just about any nearby town than actually in Rocamadour itself. The Domaine de la Rhue is a gorgeous property with lovely hosts.
I agree with Michael about the Périgueux market and old town.
Jan 13th, 2013, 12:05 PM
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I like your 1st part of the trip:
<< Thursday: Arrive Lyon, drive to Le Puy for overnight.
Friday: Drive to overnight in Rocamadour.
Saturday: 7 nights Sarlat gite.>>
I also recommend Domaine de la Rhue
http://www.domainedelarhue.com/gb/accueil.htm
We stayed there last year. On Saturday morning you can visit Padirac when it opens before the crowds arrive. Take the route thru Carennac, Autoire and Loubressac on your way to Sarlat.
We rented a gite near Sarlat with a pool. The boys loved it.
<< Thursday: Arrive Lyon, drive to Le Puy for overnight.
Friday: Drive to overnight in Rocamadour.
Saturday: 7 nights Sarlat gite.>>
I also recommend Domaine de la Rhue
http://www.domainedelarhue.com/gb/accueil.htm
We stayed there last year. On Saturday morning you can visit Padirac when it opens before the crowds arrive. Take the route thru Carennac, Autoire and Loubressac on your way to Sarlat.
We rented a gite near Sarlat with a pool. The boys loved it.
