Doors Locked at the Madison-Paris??
Oct 17th, 2004, 09:05 PM
#21
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The Madison is a lovely hotel, in a good location. If you are inconvienced by checking your key at the desk or waiting for the door to be opened in the late evening, maybe you should try a more impersonal hotel ie Sheraton? When in ?(fill in) do as they do, lets not homogenize the world.
Sorry, but I think it is so sad that it has come to the point, that we expect everything right now! 24/7. Guess what, there are still places in the world that close at night, on Sundays and for the whole month of August.
My view is that we would be alot better off if we reverted to this antiquated practice. Maybe we would then think that home is charming, and would not envy the ? (fill in) their lifestyle.
Now I wiil get off my soapbox.
Sorry, but I think it is so sad that it has come to the point, that we expect everything right now! 24/7. Guess what, there are still places in the world that close at night, on Sundays and for the whole month of August.
My view is that we would be alot better off if we reverted to this antiquated practice. Maybe we would then think that home is charming, and would not envy the ? (fill in) their lifestyle.
Now I wiil get off my soapbox.
Oct 18th, 2004, 12:29 AM
#22
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Hotel Clos Medicis was certainly charming, and they had someone behind the desk at all hours. Sometimes I had to wait a minute for the clerk to appear to get my key, but it was never more than a minute, and I wasn't waiting outside in the dark and cold.
I fail to see how not wanting to stand out in the cold for 10 minutes (which is a very long time--I'd hope the desk clerk can use the toilet in less time than that) is equivalent to "wanting everything 24/7". Being able to get into your hotel when you want is the most basic in customer service.
I've never even had a B&B lock up on me--I'm always provided with a key.
I fail to see how not wanting to stand out in the cold for 10 minutes (which is a very long time--I'd hope the desk clerk can use the toilet in less time than that) is equivalent to "wanting everything 24/7". Being able to get into your hotel when you want is the most basic in customer service.
I've never even had a B&B lock up on me--I'm always provided with a key.
Oct 18th, 2004, 05:22 AM
#23
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this debate is not going to be resolved.
As always, one person's inconvenience is another person's reasonable delay.
What enrages one person doesn't bother another in the least, and vice versa.
It is helpful however, to know what the arrangements are in advance,if one is likely to be upset by this sort of thing. It is also a different matter if the night employee is MIA all the time.
When I return to my apartment building (home) late at night, there have been occasions when I've had to wait 5-10 minutes outside a locked front door because my doorman was presumably using the bathroom. It is somewhat inconvenient when it's cold outside, but absent a new electronic security lock or card swipe, I don't see an alternative. And if they're going to install one of those, then they might do away with the night doorman, and I'd rather have a person in the lobby during the night.
As always, one person's inconvenience is another person's reasonable delay.
What enrages one person doesn't bother another in the least, and vice versa.
It is helpful however, to know what the arrangements are in advance,if one is likely to be upset by this sort of thing. It is also a different matter if the night employee is MIA all the time.
When I return to my apartment building (home) late at night, there have been occasions when I've had to wait 5-10 minutes outside a locked front door because my doorman was presumably using the bathroom. It is somewhat inconvenient when it's cold outside, but absent a new electronic security lock or card swipe, I don't see an alternative. And if they're going to install one of those, then they might do away with the night doorman, and I'd rather have a person in the lobby during the night.
Oct 18th, 2004, 05:38 AM
#24
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You're missing the point.
"There have been occasions" is very different from "most of the time." I, too, do not begrudge the desk clerk an occasional break, but when being absent becomes a pattern, it's time to look for a better-managed hotel.
As the flight attendant says at the end of the trip, "you have a choice of airlines, and we hope you'll choose us."
The only relevant fact in this discussion is that inattentive staff is not something that one paying premium prices should have to accept. It's not a matter of being "upset" - it's a simple question of value for money, and what you can get down the street for the same price.
"There have been occasions" is very different from "most of the time." I, too, do not begrudge the desk clerk an occasional break, but when being absent becomes a pattern, it's time to look for a better-managed hotel.
As the flight attendant says at the end of the trip, "you have a choice of airlines, and we hope you'll choose us."
The only relevant fact in this discussion is that inattentive staff is not something that one paying premium prices should have to accept. It's not a matter of being "upset" - it's a simple question of value for money, and what you can get down the street for the same price.
Oct 18th, 2004, 05:56 AM
#25
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thank you for trying to enlighten me but I don't believe I am missing the point.
I agree that inattentive or irresponsible service at any level is undesirable. It remains to be seen whether or not the reported incident is a regular occurence or not, and it is a matter of opinion whether or not the reported issue is unacceptable to an individual, or if it affects the individually-perceived value of the Madision Hotel.
I agree that inattentive or irresponsible service at any level is undesirable. It remains to be seen whether or not the reported incident is a regular occurence or not, and it is a matter of opinion whether or not the reported issue is unacceptable to an individual, or if it affects the individually-perceived value of the Madision Hotel.
Oct 18th, 2004, 06:00 AM
#26
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don't get the complaints about handing in Keys and locking doors. This is standard in smaller hotels in many countries. To be honest I feel safer as a guest knowing someone cannot wander in off the street. Not really a big deal.
We tend to stay out late and after the first night for example we say we will be back late that evening so the night porter knows he will be waken up. I hate waking people up and being Irish and silly always apologise. Each night we were met with a lovely hello and smile at the Muguet from the gentleman who worked nights. He said its no problem etc etc. Sometimes it takes longer if they are asleep but as long as I am not in any danger I can wait.
We tend to stay out late and after the first night for example we say we will be back late that evening so the night porter knows he will be waken up. I hate waking people up and being Irish and silly always apologise. Each night we were met with a lovely hello and smile at the Muguet from the gentleman who worked nights. He said its no problem etc etc. Sometimes it takes longer if they are asleep but as long as I am not in any danger I can wait.
Oct 18th, 2004, 09:51 AM
#27
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This thread is not about "smaller hotels" - it's about the Madison in Paris, where a double on the courtyard is €240. A guest paying four-star prices has a right to expect better than two-star service.
<u>Insist on getting what you're paying for!</u>
<u>Insist on getting what you're paying for!</u>
Oct 18th, 2004, 10:11 AM
#29
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The Madison IS a smaller hotel. The price is not an indication of size. They do the exact same thing, look the doors, in the 3* hotel I usually stay at and it's about the same size. My hotel is about 100 euro per night cheaper, I admit, but the Madison is not a 4* hotel. That price is a reflection of expensive St Germain real estate.
I really don't understand what the expectation would be -- to hire two desk clerks even in a small hotel so one will always be there all night long, even if the other has to go away for a few minutes? This doesn't seem reasonable to me, but I don't stay in hotels that expensive so don't know what people expect for that money. I would for a 5* hotel or a very expensive 4* hotel, I guess. I always stay in 3* hotels, though, and none of them have that much staff in the lobby in the middle of the night.
Robespierre, you don't know how often this happens or how much--one guy on Tripadvisor you don't know says much or most of his stay which could be some other person's occasionally. If the desk clerk is lax in his behavior, I think he should be fired or reassigned, but perhaps you have unrealistic ideas of the duties and salary of a night desk clerk in a small 3* hotel. Madison's room rates aren't all or always 240 euro, and that isn't the rate of a luxurious hotel in that part of Paris.
Yes, the Madison is relatively small, there are only about 50 rooms. If there were a really big problem there, I don't think you'd see the very high ratings on Tripadvisor and other places I've seen. Look, I don't stay there and have no personal interest in this thing, I guess I just don't agree with arguments that seem illogical to me--that all hotels, regardless of size, should have more than one night clerk so the door is never left unattended for a few minutes.
I really don't understand what the expectation would be -- to hire two desk clerks even in a small hotel so one will always be there all night long, even if the other has to go away for a few minutes? This doesn't seem reasonable to me, but I don't stay in hotels that expensive so don't know what people expect for that money. I would for a 5* hotel or a very expensive 4* hotel, I guess. I always stay in 3* hotels, though, and none of them have that much staff in the lobby in the middle of the night.
Robespierre, you don't know how often this happens or how much--one guy on Tripadvisor you don't know says much or most of his stay which could be some other person's occasionally. If the desk clerk is lax in his behavior, I think he should be fired or reassigned, but perhaps you have unrealistic ideas of the duties and salary of a night desk clerk in a small 3* hotel. Madison's room rates aren't all or always 240 euro, and that isn't the rate of a luxurious hotel in that part of Paris.
Yes, the Madison is relatively small, there are only about 50 rooms. If there were a really big problem there, I don't think you'd see the very high ratings on Tripadvisor and other places I've seen. Look, I don't stay there and have no personal interest in this thing, I guess I just don't agree with arguments that seem illogical to me--that all hotels, regardless of size, should have more than one night clerk so the door is never left unattended for a few minutes.
Oct 18th, 2004, 10:16 AM
#30
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If this is an ongoing issue, which is hard to tell from what has been posted, a good customer-service solution would be to put a sign on the door saying "Back in 10 minutes" or whatever.
I think I would feel uncomfortable waking up a night clerk, even if I know that's their job. So if I were planning to stay out past midnight, I think I'd only look for hotels where this wasn't an issue, however it's handled.
I think I would feel uncomfortable waking up a night clerk, even if I know that's their job. So if I were planning to stay out past midnight, I think I'd only look for hotels where this wasn't an issue, however it's handled.
Oct 18th, 2004, 10:31 AM
#31
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<i>I just don't agree with arguments that seem illogical to me--that all hotels, regardless of size, should have more than one night clerk so the door is never left unattended for a few minutes.</i>
I wouldn't agree with that either - if anyone had ever said it. The more one pays, the better the service. That's part of what is included in the price. I maintain that people paying $300 a night should expect a standard of service that does <u>not</u> include being stuck at the front door <b>most of the time</b> as the Trip Advisor poster was (not for a few minutes occasionally). Evidently the Madison behavior is chronic, and I'd take my money someplace where the help isn't inconvenienced by the presence of paying customers.
I wouldn't agree with that either - if anyone had ever said it. The more one pays, the better the service. That's part of what is included in the price. I maintain that people paying $300 a night should expect a standard of service that does <u>not</u> include being stuck at the front door <b>most of the time</b> as the Trip Advisor poster was (not for a few minutes occasionally). Evidently the Madison behavior is chronic, and I'd take my money someplace where the help isn't inconvenienced by the presence of paying customers.
Oct 18th, 2004, 11:05 AM
#32
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The Madison otherwise consistently gets great reviews. One person has posted a criticism. I don't evaluate hotels these days based on one person's bad experience unless it is something very objective, like, 'the wallpaper is peeling in the lobby and corridors.'
That person may have indeed experienced the problem several times during the stay. That week may also have been an anomaly; perhaps they'd just hired an unsatisfactory new person, or maybe they had to put on an untrained person due to a staff shortage. Other than this experience, I don't so far see any 'evidence that the Madison behavior is chronic', but even if it is that problem wouldn't necessarily be enough to keep me from staying there, like Christina, it's the overall price that would most often lead me to another hotel.
I once visited the hotel des Tuileries just to see it. It is not a cheap hotel, priced similarly to the Madison, mainly due to an excellent right bank location. The rooms I saw were very pretty but so small that there was hardly any walking room around the bed,and the bathrooms sized so that two people could not stand abreast. The corridors were uniformly narrow such that one person would have to flatten themselves against a wall in order to let someone else pass. Those evaluations are relatively measurable, though some people might not be bothered by them at all. On the day I was there, the one elevator was also out of order, which didn't help my impression of the hotel as being a good value. On the other hand, I would not assume unless I knew otherwise that the elevator is always out of order.
Whoever is bothered by possibly having to wait for a few minutes outside for access to the hotel, should clearly not choose to stay there, whether the 240 euro is an 'average' price for that area or not. One person's good value, in hotels or sports cars or restaurants, is another person's rip-off or waste of money.
That person may have indeed experienced the problem several times during the stay. That week may also have been an anomaly; perhaps they'd just hired an unsatisfactory new person, or maybe they had to put on an untrained person due to a staff shortage. Other than this experience, I don't so far see any 'evidence that the Madison behavior is chronic', but even if it is that problem wouldn't necessarily be enough to keep me from staying there, like Christina, it's the overall price that would most often lead me to another hotel.
I once visited the hotel des Tuileries just to see it. It is not a cheap hotel, priced similarly to the Madison, mainly due to an excellent right bank location. The rooms I saw were very pretty but so small that there was hardly any walking room around the bed,and the bathrooms sized so that two people could not stand abreast. The corridors were uniformly narrow such that one person would have to flatten themselves against a wall in order to let someone else pass. Those evaluations are relatively measurable, though some people might not be bothered by them at all. On the day I was there, the one elevator was also out of order, which didn't help my impression of the hotel as being a good value. On the other hand, I would not assume unless I knew otherwise that the elevator is always out of order.
Whoever is bothered by possibly having to wait for a few minutes outside for access to the hotel, should clearly not choose to stay there, whether the 240 euro is an 'average' price for that area or not. One person's good value, in hotels or sports cars or restaurants, is another person's rip-off or waste of money.
Oct 18th, 2004, 11:24 AM
#33
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We stayed at the Madison this summer and came in late every evening without ever having to wait. In fact, I didn't even remember whether the door was locked at night or not. I think it was, but it wasn't an issue at all.
Nov 5th, 2004, 04:10 PM
#34
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Wow. I had not looked at the replies to this because initially I only recieved a few. Thanks for all of the tips and controversy. Regardless of locked door or not, I am looking forward to staying at the Madison. It seems to have a fine reputation. I'll just bring my gloves and hat
I'll let you know how things go.
I'll let you know how things go.
Nov 5th, 2004, 04:34 PM
#35
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i agree with ktw...
if you want to avoid any chance of quirky customer service stay in one of the chain hotels.
in the US, preventing a paying customer from waiting more than 2 seconds is customer service 101...anyone who travels in europe knows this isn't the case here. whether you like it or not, this is the reality.
anyway, i suspect that the wait time only FELT like 10 minutes to an american obsessed with the thought that "this would never happen in the US".
if you want to avoid any chance of quirky customer service stay in one of the chain hotels.
in the US, preventing a paying customer from waiting more than 2 seconds is customer service 101...anyone who travels in europe knows this isn't the case here. whether you like it or not, this is the reality.
anyway, i suspect that the wait time only FELT like 10 minutes to an american obsessed with the thought that "this would never happen in the US".
Nov 6th, 2004, 05:32 AM
#36
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I have reserved a room at the Madison for late May 2005, based largly on posts here on Fodors, and having to wait to get inside the door at night is not a high priority for me in determining where I will stay. I have found it very common in hotels in Eurpoe, and some in the United States, to lock the doors at night and not provide the guests with a key. Big deal, I am on vacation and don't particularly care if I have to wait ten minutes or so, I am not on a timeline because I am on vacation. If that is the biggest problem that presents itself during my travels then I will easily be able to live with it. I will report on the "waiting at the door" situation when I come back but I very seriously doubt that it will be an issue that ruins my stay at the Madison or in Paris.
Nov 6th, 2004, 06:54 AM
#37
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I'm confused after reading all the posts and about how the Madison gets "consistently good reviews"...when I went to TripAdvisor I saw quite a FEW not so great reviews about the hotel and it made me pause.
Underhill, I know you've stayed there and enjoyed it and that was one of the reasons I considered staying there, but the reviews on TripAdvisor had more to say than just the locked door issue;
I hate it when I get "hotel schozophrenia" and always wonder if I should stay were I always do rather than getting adventurous. I've got a post out about the de Vigny (since reading the Madison reviews on TA)...
Sigh! decisions..decisions..
Underhill, I know you've stayed there and enjoyed it and that was one of the reasons I considered staying there, but the reviews on TripAdvisor had more to say than just the locked door issue;
I hate it when I get "hotel schozophrenia" and always wonder if I should stay were I always do rather than getting adventurous. I've got a post out about the de Vigny (since reading the Madison reviews on TA)...
Sigh! decisions..decisions..
Nov 6th, 2004, 07:26 AM
#38
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The negative reviews on Trip Advisor date back some months, to the time when the hotel's rooms and hallways were being renovated. More recent reviews are highly favorable.
I can only say that since finding the Madison I've stopped looking for a better hotel when we stay on the Left Bank.
I can only say that since finding the Madison I've stopped looking for a better hotel when we stay on the Left Bank.
Nov 6th, 2004, 07:38 AM
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TopMan, we stayed at the Madison in July and loved it!
We, too, had read all the negative reviews after we had made our reservation. After a very pleasant phone call to the hotel assuring us that all renovations would be completed, we decided to go and find out for ourselves. It was just wonderful.
The hotel is in a great location for sightseeing. Our room was fabulous - facing the boulevard - large and beautifully decorated. We were very lucky to get this room for our run of the house rate. We never found the front door locked but we didn't stay out really late. It seemed as if someone was always at the front desk or in the little front office.
I think you will enjoy your stay there - ask for a boulevard facing room. Rooms with 2 twin beds (ours was) may be larger than a double bed room.
Enjoy you trip!
We, too, had read all the negative reviews after we had made our reservation. After a very pleasant phone call to the hotel assuring us that all renovations would be completed, we decided to go and find out for ourselves. It was just wonderful.
The hotel is in a great location for sightseeing. Our room was fabulous - facing the boulevard - large and beautifully decorated. We were very lucky to get this room for our run of the house rate. We never found the front door locked but we didn't stay out really late. It seemed as if someone was always at the front desk or in the little front office.
I think you will enjoy your stay there - ask for a boulevard facing room. Rooms with 2 twin beds (ours was) may be larger than a double bed room.
Enjoy you trip!
