Doggie Bags for Wine in Paris!
 

Today's NY Times has a most interesting article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/26/in...pe/26PARI.html

While in much of the US, restaurants refuse to allow patrons to take their unfinished wine home with them -- encouraging to drink it all there and then get in a car and drive home, in Paris they now offer and actually encourage the practice. Doesn't it make more sense for safety sake that people not drink so much before driving home, but be allowed to take it home for later use?

While this practice may or may not catch on in Paris (Chez Paul is the main example being discussed), it certainly seems to make a lot more sense than the American custom of suggesting that it is safer to drink all your wine and drive, rather than have an open bottle in your car that you're taking home while still sober enough to drive and drink it later.

Chez Paul has been mentioned so many times here. Do those pictures do it justice?

Don't ask me. We finally planned to have lunch at Chez Paul last summer and arrived about 1 PM on a weekday without a reservation. There was not a single person eating there, but a handful of waiters standing in the doorway in great anticipation. We were turned off by the emptiness, so still haven't eaten there. Very recently another Fodorite emailed me with a long discussion of their Paris restaurants and mentioned how disappointed they were with Chez Paul.

Pardon my ignorance...
what do they say to us in US when we ask for wine "to wrap" ?
Just NO ! in your face ???
I never had this issue, so just curious, I can't believe they will not let you take what was paid for.

Unfinished wine???? In 30+ years of dining out, I've never encountered a drop of wine left at the table. I usually leave craving one more sip.

With so many great restaurants serving excellent wines by the glass these days, I'm surprised this topic even exists.

This article is about the French goverment trying to crackdown on drunken driving so they have distributed "sacs de chiens" to bistros and restaurants. So far it seems to be only tourists who take the left over wine back to their hotels.

In many states, having an open container in your car is illegal. Perhaps the restaurants don't want to be an accessory before the fact.

Well, Cigalechanta, then maybe it's logical the article focuses on Chez Paul -- isn't that strictly a tourist restaurant?

I'm with you, NYFoodSnob. I have no idea what "leftover wine" means! But I have seen single diners ordering a bottle and leaving half of it. If I were dining alone and for some strange reason (maybe because I was driving home) chose not to finish my wine there, I certainly wouldn't be too proud to ask for a "sac de chien".

I like a little wine most every day ;), but can never finish a bottle at a meal. Perhaps we could consume a half-bottle between the 2 of us.. I have never mastered the pronunciation of 'bottle', so help me out - how do I pronounce 'une demi bouteille' ?

Is it 'oon deh-mee boo-tay-uh' ?

That's my question, Patrick, is it a tourist restaurant?

I take the coward's way out, Travelnut. I don't order them often (sometimes in the afternoon though, we'll split a half bottle at a cafe). I simply say "demi" and they know what I mean. Think Demi Moore.

P.S. when I tried to find old posts about this place, they all came up as chez maitre Paul. Are they the same place?

In many places in the U.S., restaurants' liquor licenses allow them to sell alcohol for consumption on their premises only; they are barred from selling it for take-away, whether the bottle is open or not.

Laws governing alcohol vary so much from place to place -- I'd expect to be able to take the remaining wine home in New Orleans (where Hurricanes are sold in large plastic cups on the sidewalks of the French Quarter), but not in nearby Mississippi.

In Indiana we have some quirky liquor laws. Most restaurants do not have a license that allows alcohol to be taken off the premises. You have to go to a package liquor store for that.

I was in a bar once that had a package license too. You could buy a six-pack to go, but it had to leave. You weren't allowed to sit there and drink it.

If you ordered a beer for drinking in the bar, they had to crack it open for you. It was not allowed to leave with you. Of course the pricing structure was different for the beers. Much more expensive to have them crack the beer open for you.

Kayd and clevelandbrown, you've brought up my basic point. Isn't there something inherently wrong about a law which essentially tells people it is better to drink up all their wine before driving home rather than stopping and taking the rest home to drink later?

This topic has me mystified. I cannot imagine having any wine left at the end of a meal, and I cannot imagine anyone wanting to drive to or from a restaurant in Paris.

Alright then... it's une "Demi", or un verre du vin rouge, pour moi.

Doggie bags is an american inventions..When i was in manarola this past summer I was so embarresed by am American couple next to my table.They had just a little pasta leftover and a little piece of bread left from their meal and asked the waitress for a doggie bag.
The waitress graciously gave it to them...
Talking about being Cheap..

Kismet: Your post reminds me of a dinner we had at Marina Piccolo in Manarola. All three of us ordered the most wonderful pasta and shrimp dish, so they brought it all on one platter. There was a fair amount left when we were done, and had I been in the U.S., I would have definitely asked for a doggie bag. However, I remembered my Fodors manners and walked away without looking back (sigh), (and it would have made such a nice snack later that night after a few glasses of wine on our balcony!)

Travelnut,

Your pronunciation is spot on.

At cafés and some bistros you can just ask for "un pichet" (rouge or blanc) (peechay)to get a little jug of the house wine.

I'm American, living in England at the moment, and have also lived in Belgium. Now, I haven't asked for a doggie bag in years, but I'm mystified why it is considered 'cheap' to request one. My reasons:

1) I enjoyed the meal very much, but there was obviously too much for me to finish in one sitting. If I request a doggie bag, that's some indication that I want to enjoy the meal, and the memory of my experience at the restaurant, again. Might sound cheesy (or rather, cheap, to some of you) but I would think that the chef would be flattered that a patron enjoyed his creation that much.

2) I PAID FOR the meal, so it's not like the restaurant is losing anything.


Some restaurant portions are quite large. What's the difference between my eating the huge meal all in one go and possibly looking like a real oinker and feeling overstuffed and bloated, versus eating what I can right then, and saving the rest to enjoy again later, versus eating as much as I can right then, and then walking away, leaving the food that I really enjoyed to be thrown away and wasted? In the first two scenarios, the food gets eaten. In the last scenario, some of the food is wasted. In all three scenarios, the food is PAID FOR by the patron, so to my way of thinking, why shouldn't I take home what I paid for?

Now, the OP was talking about wine, not food....

During my teenage years, I lived in southern Louisiana, and back then, we had drive-thru 'Daquiri Huts', if you can believe it. I only go back to LA to visit the folks every few years, and I don't know if that's legal anymore. Shouldn't have been legal to order an alcoholic drink in a styrofoam cup with a lid and straw, and then drive, in the first place, but there ya go. That's Louisiana for you.

Since I feel the way I do about 'leftovers' in restaurants, I think that encouraging people to take the leftover wine home, instead of drinking it all up and then getting behind the wheel of a car, is a good idea. But, as someone mentioned, there are open container laws, etc. I'd think that would be a tricky issue to resolve.

I'll be interested to read other people's comments.

In Orvieto earlier this year we had a really nice dinner at a nice restaurant and I could not finish my plate.

The waiter/manager asked if I didnt like my meal, I said I loved it but couldnt finish it. He said then take it with you and wrapped it up for without being asked. Maybe it was because we were American or maybe it was because he was proud of his food and wanted me to enjoy it later, which I did at our villa.

I have put corks back into half unfinished bottles of wine and just taken them with me (in Italy) I have never thought about it. Sometimes one bottle is too little and two are too much so there is some left.

My mother has always taken her unfinished bottle with her in France. My father only drinks martinis so she has always has wine leftover.
I was once at Taillevent when an American at the next table asked if they could box the complementary cookies and candies they give with coffee. I thought that was tacky.

clevelandbrown and kayd are correct...

liquor licensing is a bizarre panalopy throughout the US. some states (or even specific counties and municipalities) require exclusive either on/off premises permits, others both and several neither.

driving with an open container is illegal in most states wherein the defining concept is that one may be drinking while driving (as opposed to the universally prohibited "driving under the influence" or "driving while intoxicated").

from the restauranteur or bar owner's perspective, doggy bagging alcohol opens up a whole range of legal exposures including complicity in any vehicular homicide involving a patron. there are many cases on the books wherein patrons or victems of patrons have sued an establishment for providing alcohol.

i don't think that the operative philosophy is that: "it's better to drink it all here and , then, drive", but rather to drink responsibly enough to realise that if you can't take it with you, you're better off to leave it.

one ploy i've used when having over ordered is to invite the chef or the wait staff to enjoy the rest of the bottle. it's generally appreciated and ends up potentially saving you an ass-load of trouble down the road.

In the US, we don't ask for doggy bags. When I enjoy the meal, I enjoy the meal and when I'm full, I leave the rest. It doesn't bother me. There will be other meals. The restaurants do have to pay for the bags or styrofoam containers so it's not entirely free for them!

Haven't noticed in Paris, but in lots of smaller towns where there were lots of locals at lunch, they ordered wine copiously and when they finished eating, they left . . . often leaving several half-finished bottles on the table. I suspect it's a case of, "We enjoyed it. Lunch is over."

Since we're driving, we usually order a carafe of tap water. In the evening we order a pichet or demi bouteille and that's enough.

BTW, is Chez Pauls different from Pauls. Pauls is a chain of boulangeries where we like to eat breakfast and I know they sell sandwiches, but I can't imagine them serving dinners. Just curious.

I was recently eating at Bistro Don Giovanni's in Napa, CA. There were several tables where a group of 4 had brought with them 4 or 5 bottles and did tastings with their food. They paid corkage and took the bottles away with them with what was left.

Since the restaurant didn't sell the wine there's no off-site licence issue, and it wasn't seen as strange there in the heart of California's wine country.

I have friends with a very fine wine collection that bring bottles to restaurants about 30% of the time. They never feel a need to drink it all (especially if you start with a white and move on to a red). They've never been told they couldn't take their extra wine away with them, nor was it ever suggested that this was uncouth.

SalB..often in small local restaurants, in France and Italy, whole bottles of house wine will be placed on the table , but you only pay for what you drink..then they refill the bottles from their barrels or vats. So it might appear that patrons are leaving half-full bottles on the table when they leave but they have only been charged for what was consumed.

In England in several fine country house hotels, if you order a whole bottle and don't finish it, they will recork and label it for you for dinner the next evening. I appreciate this , especially if we are having a white with the starter or fish course and a red to follow. We never have any trouble finishing the red , but a whole bottle of white to start is too much and sometimes there are not half bottles available.

Cigalechanta,

In answer to your question, the Chez Paul featured in the NYTimes article is on rue de Charonne in the 11th, and has a clientele that is mostly French. There seems to be a Chez Maitre Paul in the 6th which may be the touristy one.

I ate there earlier this month prompted by the recommendation of a French friend who used to live in Paris. The place is very busy on the weekends, and the food is very good. Although I didn't have one, the steaks looked wonderful, and the tarte tatin is well above average.

While I didn't take any wine home after my dinner at Chez Paul, I did do that one time in NYC. My dining companion, who was driving, thought he'd had enough to drink, and because we had a half a bottle left, we decided to ask to take it with us. ( Of course I could have continued to drink, but that wouldn't have been fair would it?;)) So yes, it does happen.

Thanks, Matisse I appreciate your responding.
Here's to you(she says sipping her Gigandas)

Matisse, thanks for the clarification of Chez Paul vs. Chez Maitre Paul. And no, SalB, no relation to the great little pastry shop, Paul's. Whoever knew Paul was such a common French name?

My husband and I live in N. California. We often bring our own wine to a restaurant, in fact, it's a pretty common practice. We always expect to be charged a corkage fee, which ranges from about $7 a bottle to as high as $25! (Carmel). Obviously the ones charging $25 are trying to discourage the practice (and we don't do it there). When we bring our own, we like to offer a glass to our server. If the restaurant allows this (more often than not), the server LOVES the gesture. One good guideline to go by is to never bring inexpensive, or "common" wine to a restaurant. For example, if at all possible, you would try to make sure you don't bring a bottle they have on the wine list. Or never a bottle of two-buck-chuck (gak!). Now THAT would be rude. (And believe it or not, I've heard of it.) Also, if we know a restaurant is well known for their wine list, we wouldn't want to insult them by bringing our own. After all, that's often part of what they pride themselves on. On the other hand, there are some restaurants with excellent food (a Moroccan one we love, for example), but a terrible wine/beverage list.

Several times we have started out in a restaurant, with a bottle of white then moved on to red. We couldn't drink both, so we corked the two partial bottles and headed on our way. However, don't get caught in California with an open container *in* your car. It must be in the trunk (with no rubber tubing leading to the mouths of the driver or passengers!).

We have also, many times, brought leftovers home. Usually when the meal was very good and I couldn't eat it all in one sitting. I never imagined it would be looked at as rude. Eek! Usually, as someone else mentioned, I am asked if I would like to bring my leftovers home. I've even been asked if I would like to bring the bone from my meat home to my dog! Guess I shouldn't expect to hear that in Paris this summer, eh? ;)

How funny. I can't imagine someone paying a $7 corkage fee for a bottle of two buck Chuck. Sort of defeats the purpose.=D>

Would you disappoint your most loyal friend in order to appear polite in the eyes of the waiter (many of whom shamelessly nibble off your your plate BEFORE you get it -- gross, I know but it does happen. Don't fool yourself)?

My deserving pup always wiggled with anticipation when he saw I came home with one of those white, squeaky boxes. So, who cares what the waiter thinks? Of course, this was in the U.S.

On the other hand, my French mother-in-law's favorite pastime is making fun of Americans and the doggie bag topic is one of her best-loved (by her) routines. When she traveled to the U.S. for the first time last month, it was with glee that she suggested asking for doggie bags at the end of every meal. I can assure you, it got old after a few days!

People !
It started as "because of the law we can't take left-over wine with us"
If unfinished bottle of wine COULD be transport in the trunk of the car - what are we talking about then ???

If every client offered glass of wine to the waiter - can you imagine what kind of service last guest would be receiving ...

And YES I am FOR doggie bag. It IS paid for ! Why not ? Just do not whine if you want to take it, but too proud of yourself ... then later drink your beer without !

One reason why 'take-home bags' for food may be more popular in the U.S. is due to the increasing portion sizes at our restaurants. The Super-Size-it mentality has led to unrealistic portions in many American restaurants.

Portions seem to be smaller in most European restaurants, so a normal eater can usually finish a 3 or even 4 course meal.

"Author: NYCFoodSnob
Date: 01/26/2004, 11:20 am
Message: Unfinished wine???? In 30+ years of dining out, I've never encountered a drop of wine left at the table. I usually leave craving one more sip.

With so many great restaurants serving excellent wines by the glass these days, I'm surprised this topic even exists."

Obviously, drinking wine and knowing about wine are not the same thing.

Obviously having a brain and using a brain are not the same thing.

Platzer,

Are you feeling all right?

You seem to be stalking NYCFS.