Gardyloo

OMG do you mean we can use our FF miles at Taillevent? What a putz I've been.

But perhaps my point eluded you, ira...

fishee

ira,

fine dining is my biggest conflict... I love to eat in restaurants that I really have no business being in and I pay ridiculous sums of money for degustation menus. Anytime I have a chance to upgrade on anything, whether it's airfare or accommodations, I always think -- "but I could do try the tasting menu at (blank) for this price".

The other issue for me is while I can cash in 90,000 miles for a J ticket to Europe, it doesn't leave me anything extra for my friends, most of whom are in non-profit or education and are poorly paid. When I can, I try to cover their airfare with an award ticket so we can travel together. So it's traveling alone in business class or with friends in coach.

KT

I would rather go to Europe twice in cattle class than once in business. I take a pill, I sleep, and I try not to dwell on the discomfort. Now, if I were somebody who travelled for work and had miles to burn, or if I had money to burn so that I could afford more non-FF trips, it would be a whole different story. This is one of those times where "value" depends on your circumstances. A BMW may give you more value for money than a Kia, but not if you can't afford the BMW.

Patty

ira,
Your argument would be valid if it weren't for the "of miles" part. Miles can't be used to pay for dinner at Taillevent, etc. so I don't see it as an either or proposition. If it was real money, that would be different.

KT

But it is like real money, in a sense. Assume somebody wants to go to Europe twice. If they go twice in coach with FF miles, all they've spent is the taxes. If they go once in business and use up all the miles, and then they have to spend real money for the second trip. Money that they otherwise would have been able to spend elsewhere. Again, this is assuming that they don't have tons of miles.

Carrybean

One IS able to upgrade to business AND dine at Taillevent. In my case, I have one vacation per year. It's not a case of going more often because I use miles for coach tickets. I can't be away from work to go to Europe 2-3 times per year. So different strokes, etc., etc.

Besides, it leaves more J class upgrade seats available for me!

KT

Clarification.: I don't (usually) go more than once a year (alas!). But since it takes me a while to accrue miles, I don't have enough miles to go twice a year, either. I use some miles one year, then other miles later once I've earned more of them. It still adds up to more trips with a smaller cash outlay, even if spread out like that. As I said, things would be different if I had more miles...or more cash.

Jolie

I earn a lot of miles, but rarely get to use them.

My husband is quite tall and he will NEVER fly coach. I use most of my miles to upgrade him while I suffer in coach (I'm short, so it's not so bad). My only other alternatives are (A) leave him home, or (B) pay for his first class ticket (I usually take option "A&quot.

But in my dream world where I am able to actually use my miles for myself, I would choose two coach tickets over one first class (but again, I'm short).

Gardyloo

Let me clarify some earlier numbers.

Generally <b>you pay between $0.015 and $0.025 per FF mile, usually in the lower range. That's the amount merchants (credit card companies etc.) have paid (real money) to the airlines and have passed on to you (with a profit) through annual charges, finance charges on your monthly unpaid balance, etc. when they re-sell those miles to you when you charge something. It's for this reason the airline FF plans almost always have a very strong book value (even when the airlines are in financial kimchee.) They've received your money (indirectly, from Visa et al) and you have yet to use it for airline tickets. Many millions of FF points &quot;leak&quot; out of the system - 5000 miles in your Skyhigh account that never get used, etc.

If you spend 50,000 miles to obtain a coach ticket worth $1000, you've spent miles at the rate of $0.02 each. Okay, but no cigar - that's about what you paid for them in the first place.

However, for that $1200 difference I mentioned above for Hawaii, your 30,000 miles are worth $.04 each. Ding, ding, winner.

If you spend 90,000 miles for a $3500 business-class ticket, ding ding. We just redeemed 75,000 miles each for a business class Europe-Africa itinerary that pencils out at $12,300 commercial. Bonnnngggg.

The thing about FF miles is that you've paid for them, so try not to lose money on the transaction. May take some calculating, but not to do so is dingy. IMO.</b>

Gardyloo

Oh god, sorry - forgot to turn off the bold key. Sheesh.

KT

Okay, I'll use all my miles for one business class ticket so that I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I maximized their value...while I sit at home a few years later because I can't afford another ticket and don't have those miles that I could have used to go coach. We don't all have the same spending power, miles-wise or dollar-wise.

wombat7

Gardyloo
But I think that the FF spending shoudl be &quot;valued&quot; rather than &quot;costed&quot; - to some a bus class ticket from YYZ-LHR (for example) is not &quot;worth&quot; $6k - therefore not worth spending the extra miles.

This thread is a bit like the tour/solo threads - all depends on what the individual wants/values

ira

&gt;But it is like real money,...

Very good, KT.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Patty

&quot;We don't all have the same spending power, miles-wise or dollar-wise.&quot;

Fair point. I don't think I could go on any more trips a year even if I had more miles so for me, the tradeoff isn't an extra trip.

Judyrem

Hoard miles!? ;-) Now I am using Capitol One not Delta Skymiles, because I am worried about Delta's future. I have no loyalty anymore either.