nytraveler

lerasp -

Sorry - I'm a native New Yorker and there are many neighborhood restaurants/coffee shops that have minimum charges at lunch time as well as several neighborhood places that I know that have a minimum charge - several of them $20 - at dinner.

This is not a cover charge - they're simply saying you can;t sit in the restaurant for free. And if you choose not to order anything they charge you the approximate cost of a main dish.

You can, naturally, find many places that don't. But - if you walk into a restaurant at dinner time and take a table while ordering only one dinner for two there will be - at minimum - a plate charge. And they will NOT be happy.

traveller1959

This thread has turned into a thread for the US forum rather than for the European forum.

The recents posts show that restaurant etiquette differs a lot between continents.

Padraig

traveler1959 wrote: "In Köln, there was a restaurant which lost its third Michelin star, because they refused to split a dish.
Unfortunately the two gentlemen who asked for splitting the dish were testers of Guide Michelin.
So much for "upscale" restaurants."

So much for the Michelin guide. That is not an appropriate thing to ask of any Michelin-starred restaurant. It is out of keeping with the costs of running such an establishment, the huge emphasis on presentation, and the general style of such dining.

And I say that as someone who is not a food fetishist, and does not often visit Michelin-starred restaurants (and is too cheap to go past one star establishments).

ira

>"In Köln, there was a restaurant which lost its third Michelin star, because they refused to split a dish.

If I were to visit a 3*, I would expect them to accomodate my reasonable request to split a dish.

I would also expect to be charged for the convenience.

traveller1959

Seems that the anglo-saxon world has a different approach to restaurants than the continental world.

- The anglo-saxon approach is more business-oriented: "minimum charge", "costs of running such an establishment", "to be charged for the convenience".

- The continental approach is more consumer-oriented: Once a consumer has been assigned a seat, he or she cannot be forced to consume something that he or she does not want. It is also usual all over continental Europe that you keep sitting at the table as long as you want (while in America you are handed the receipt in order to clear the table for the next waiting customer). If you are not too hungry or on a diet, you may eat just a starter or you may share a dish - no problem! You may drink mineral water only (and not the profitable wine) - no problem! There are even legal provisions to secure consumers rights.

This is not intended to criticize the anglo-saxon way, it is just to inform travellers about restaurant etiquette in Europe.

Dukey

I'm sorry, Clarasong and I know you think i am a real jerk but IMO the confident traveler doesn't need to ask permission to do with the food they paid for as they wish, especially in Europe.

Do you think French folks ask if they can "share" their food with their dogs that sometimes sit in restaurants with them?

Zerlina

Dukey, Your analogy doesn't work.

The French folks' dogs share their food in restaurants in France. Of course they're not going to ask visiting Americans for permission.

I'm sure you're not suggesting that - if they are confident travelers - those French folks can share their food with their dogs in the US?

kenderina

I thought the thread was about having a meal served from the kitchen divided, which is a thing I wouldn't ask for here in Spain. But I do divide the food once it is in my table (because for the time being there..it is MY table and MY food). So I do with it whatever I please depending on my hunger state and my partners
You know, here is very common to ask for a big salad to put in the middle of the table and share between all the dinners. Also paella is eaten the same way, they put the paella in the middle of the table and everybody eats from the portion which is in front of you with a spoon, not a fork
So as you can see, traditionally we do split meals In supermega posh places...maybe you don't do it but then the portions use to be small enough for a three course meal

clarasong

Dukey::: the point was, we have friends who go into a restaurant with us (europe/britain) and say "I'll have the salmon entree between us, so divide it or bring an extra plate".

Now, I don't think that is in good form, and maybe not even allowed in some of the 'better' establishments...(remember, we are the 'affulent' Fodorites....ha ha.)

Lawchick

Has this topic not been done to death already?

Padraig

Lawchick asked: "Has this topic not been done to death already?"

Of course it has; so has tipping; so has how to get from CDG to any place in or near Paris; so has the Vatican museum; so has, so has, so has...

Flogging dead horses is a perennial here. It's merely a question of which one we flog today.

clarasong

Again I say, if it doesn't interest you, pass on by. Why is that so hard to do.? We don't all read ever post every day all the way thru...and thus there will always be some repeated stuff...plus we are getting new posters, etc.
I am getting ready to go on a lengthy trip again, and will probably miss some stuff, so might likely miss some stuff.

Padraig

clarasong wrote: "Again I say, if it doesn't interest you, pass on by. Why is that so hard to do.?"

It is not for you to say who should read or who should not read any particular thread, or what contribution any individual might properly make.

You have now entered discussion on how people should use this forum -- and that is just what other people have done in pointing out that this question has already been extensively discussed here (and quite recently, at that).

clarasong

Pad...Pulllleze...I don't care what you read/don't read/respond to/etc...it's just that when something/someone/subject irritates you, why not sooth yourself and not go there? Huh? Duh? Simple and sensible....

marilynl

I think that many restaurants willing to split an entree would merely charge a fee for it, similar to a corkage fee in restaurants that allow patrons to bring in wine. In a very fancy restaurant, I might also expect to be able to ask for an appetizer portion of something even if not listed on the menu. But really, when I am not particularly hungry, I have no trouble ordersing, say, a salad and an appetizer rather than an entree. It isn't a question of cost, or saving money.

Padraig

clarasong wrote: "Pad...Pulllleze...I don't care what you read/don't read/respond to/etc...it's just that when something/someone/subject irritates you, why not sooth yourself and not go there? Huh? Duh? Simple and sensible...."

First off, it is ill-mannered to muck about with a person's name.

Second, "Pulllleze, Huh? Duh?" are childish affectations -- kinda tacky.

Third, you have no clue about what irritates me and what doesn't, so don't presume on advising me what to do.

cigalechanta

Whoa! before you all fight. It is only respectful of you to follow a country's way. So no splitting in France but you can instesd order two samall first courses.

StCirq

And really, you might try the search function, which ought to (but being Fodor's actually might not) bring up the world's longest and most tedious thread on this very same matter from something like a couple of weeks ago.

alan64

"I'll have the salmon entree between us, so divide it or bring an extra plate".

If that's the way they state it, no wonder they get poor reactions. If we order one appetizer and two entrees, we'll explain that we plan to share the appetizer. It's up to the kitchen to decide if they want to plate it in two for us, bring us an extra plate, or just have it placed between us for us to share. Same thing if we order two appetizers but share an entree, or share a dessert. We don't presume to tell them "...so divide it..."

clarasong

Okay, we're getting ready to go to Portugal in the fall (again). Can't remember what the 'drill' is there, but we try to get in to the 'culture' we are in. Like there, they tend to eat a large meal in the early afternoon, light in the evening. If we stay in the Pousada's, it's easy, one can order "ala carte", but some restaurants in Scotland last summer had a 'set' menu, and you either ate it (or got it anyway), or didn't, same in Spain when you get the 'menu del dia', and you either order one or two.

If you just order one, they turn and say "and what will the lady have?"...."oh, I'll just have a watercress salad".....I don't think so. Jus order something on the menu, don't be so "American' as to expect them to understand our mores and behaviours.