Do sites like this increase or decrease your purchase of (Fodors or other) travel books?
 

My main question is, how does having this site benefit Fodors? I got to thinking about this because of some complaining postings about censorship and how Fodors must be hiring new people to monitor the site. Since there is no advertising on the Forums and/or the Fodors site in general, Fodors must not be making advertising revenue. The site must be expensive to maintain, especially if it is constantly being monitored ;). <BR>The one big benefit of having this site that I can think of is building brand recognition and good will toward Fodors itself. With that in mind, I ask all of you, does visiting this site make you want to buy Fodors books? Or do you use the site (i.e. print out info) instead of buying travel books. Personally, I love books and use a trip as an excuse to buy lots of travel books. However, I don't necessarily always buy the Fodors book. Instead I buy whatever book looks best for the specific area I'm interested in. If the book I chose isn't Fodors, then I just print out supplemental information from this website. Any thoughts? <BR>It will be interesting to see if this thread gets deleted.

More likely, although I am obsessive about travel research (my aborted trip to Italy in January involved about 10 history/cultural books, 12 travel guides and countless web sites). Maintaining a site such as this means to me that Fodors is serious about addressing the concerns of 21 century travelers; although much information is contained herein, the convenience and depth of information in a travel book is usually far greater than what I can obtain from a web site, especially a web site's forum area--how are you going to cut and paste together hundreds of restaurant tips about, say, Florence without spending hours and hours of effort? <BR><BR>I think I probably buy more travel books as a result of participating in forums such as this because I see that one or two guidebooks can't possibly cover every sight in a given area. These forums make me appreciate a differing point of view, similar to what I get when looking at two more more guidebooks that have differing opinions on recommendations and differing "facts" (travel times, pricing, value, proposed walking routes . . .).

I once seriously suggested a proposal to tie together book sales promtion, optional registration, and a profit opportunity for this site.<BR><BR>Allow optional registration, at some nominal annual fee - - say $18.95 a year. It would simply allow a Fodorite to protect use of their "persona" name - - whether real or fictional - - it would be exclusively theirs, and could not be subjected to having an imposter use it. It would generally appeal to regulars. The non-registered use of names - - real or otherwise would still be perfectly fine.<BR><BR>Put a coupon into each new book sold, good for one year (or discount on some time period) use of name registration here.<BR><BR>You get a choice - - continue to use free, pay the fee, or buy a book.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

There are plenty of ads on Fodors web site, don't know why you can't see them -- they are on the home page and on both top and bottom of the Forums intro page. It's marketing and PR, the main reason most firms have web sites. The web site is not usually a product in itself with a user fee, it's PR. Charging people to use a web site that is developed for PR/advertising purposes and not a product in itself (ie, some professional websites that actually sell products or journals may have a subscription fee) would be the death knell. Really really bad idea. Nobody's going to pay money to use a travel forum web site (ok, I know one guy who would). Also, did it ever occur to you that lots of people who answer questions are not going to pay a fee for the privilege of giving out free advice and answering other people? Like me. Fodor's has gotten lots of publicity out of this website in print -- I've seen it mentioned in magazine and newspaper articles. So, Fodor's marketing dept must think it is worth the price in its advertising budget. Any site that has optional registration on a travel forum (ie, Frommer's) does it for free. I certainly do not use this site instead of buying travel books. It actually does make me a little warmer towards Fodors because I think it's a good web site, and I'm sorry to say, their books are not near the top of my guidebook list.

Christina, the reason that we never see the ads is that we've bookmarked THIS page!

Actually, Fodors uses the free information that they get on this website to include material in the books that they sell. You can test it out. Make some really astounding comment about a place and within two years it will show up in a Fodors book.

I took another look at the homepage of the fodors website and the only ads I could see were for Fodors products themselves or for Expedia. I would guess that Fodors charges Expedia a healthy fee to advertise on its site and I'm sure Expedia gets lots of business by doing so. My point is really that no matter how much good PR Fodors gets and no matter how much advertising they do the only product they sell is travel books and maps (correct me if I'm wrong). If people are able to get the Fodors information for free off of Fodors own website and they are getting additional information off of the forum then it doesn't follow that people are buying more Fodor's products. It sounds like Fodors is cannabalizing its own business. I really have no idea if that is actually true, it just seems to follow from my (perhaps incorrect) line of thinking.<BR>As I said in my initial email, I love to buy all kinds of books. I'm sure the other people who read and remark and this forum are a self selected group of travel lovers (take Mark Miller who replied to this thread and said he bought and/or read 22 books before his trip to Italy) who may buy travel books as well. However, do you think the fodors general website and perhaps the forum end up dissuading "casual" or "infrequent" travelers from purchasing books.

I would happily pay a fee to Fodors, Christina, as would others, who have said so. Do you have something indicating otherwise? I would be happy to register and live by the rules. PROVIDED we could rid ourselves of the "get over yourself" types who are pure poison. His comments are personal, incredibly hateful. Just gratuitously nasty. Too bad, because he may be bright, and could be a helpful poster, if he could just clean up his attitude and stop attacking other people.

Well, Christina, I for one would not pay two cents to join this board or any other, just on principle. No matter how good it is!<BR><BR>Many boards with registration have members who are chronically offensive, obnoxious, or just chronically disruptive. I don't understand how registration would prevent this.

The people who are serious about travel (count me in that group) would invest to have a better site. If Fodors charged $25 or more annually, the really nasty people would go elsewhere. They wouldn't pay to be nasty, because it's their god given right, don't you know. I don't see what's the big deal about paying a little money to get the valuable services this site offers. You pay for everything in this world. Why so insistent in refusing to pay for good travel advice?

I am still very print oriented and use the internet overall and this site in particular to augment my reading of guidebooks, not to replace it. I buy as many guidebooks as I ever did. I think, however, that I may be a bit more likely to include a Fodor's guide among my purchases as I begin to research a country/area as a simple act of gratitude for their sponsorship of this site which has proven so beneficial to me on numerous questions. While the idea advanced by Rex is probably sound from a business strategy standpoint, it would probably cut down on a lot of the "first-timer" questions that can become the starting point for the sharing of some pretty useful information, not to mention something of a minor ego trip for each of us who can jump up with an answer or an opinion and get the enjoyment of sharing our experiences.

I am a big fan of Fodor's books and use this site to get details from people who have actually been there. I think this site is an excellent addition to the books. I fear, however, that the rude behavior exhibited by some old posters to new posters may turn them off to Fodor's in general. I think registration would keep these anonymous rude posters at bay and I'm all for it.

I know not on point of your question, but of your headline:<BR><BR>What decreased my purchase of travel books was the discovery that my library has a great collection, many of which are the curren editions. <BR><BR>I used to buy over a hundred dollars of books for trips, but now I check out 4 or 5 books at a time, and purchase my favorite (if it's smallish) to bring along on the trip.

I buy travel books, often Fodor's.<BR><BR> I would never pay to register for this site.<BR><BR> I think the kind of people who use this site a lot are "written-word" types, who are the kind of people who buy books.

I think Fodors travel books are among the best and I have an entire collection. I also appreciate having the website so questions not covered can be asked or advice can be shared. Marilyn

&gt;&gt;&gt;I got to thinking about this because of some complaining postings about censorship and how Fodors must be hiring new people to monitor the site.<BR><BR>I think what many don't understand is that this site is not public property, and free speech does not apply! We are charged absolutely nothing to read and post. No tax money is being used to support this site. It's like being a guest in someone's house. We're welcome, but if we are abusive or act inappropriately, then the host is under no obligation to continue to put up with that kind of behavior.<BR><BR>Jennifer

The point of my post was a lot less to do with the debate over registering, and more an attempt to try connecting book purchasing to use of this site.<BR><BR>Registering - - especially optional registering - - would not eliminate anonymous, mean or crude posts. You only have to spend 5 minutes on the Yahoo! Finance/Investing (individual stocks) message boards to see that.<BR><BR>Paying to register would be part vanity, part supporting something you like and want to foster - - rather similar to having a PBS membership.<BR>

Rex,<BR>Your comment circles back to my question about how the website benefits Fodors. Unlike PBS which is supported "by contributions from viewers like you," Fodors is a for-profit institution. I guess having the website does increase sales and is beneficial from a business perspective.

If registration will keep just one looney tunes away, then I am for it. If paying a fee will keep several others away, then I am for that too. Fodors, just tell me where we pay. We are serious travellers, like most who post here - 2-3 international trips annually, 8-12 domestic trips each year. And we both work fulltime - we are not anywhere near retirement. We access Fodors as out first and last step in making all plans. The loonies will not block our access, to be sure, but their nastiness is a distraction, and when they are doing their stuff, we'd just rather not be in the vicinity, so we sign off at first opportunity. I suppose one question is whether Fodors wants to do something major to fix this website so they can keep people like us, or is it to be status quo which makes it easy for the psychos and other assorted nuts to keep us away. We post trip reports and enrich the information base. The loonies merely pollute the site and make real travellers a bit queasy.

Dear Observer (and Fodors if you're reading) PLEASE speak for yourself. I am a serious traveller and I happen to like the oddball troll-like thread just as much as many of the serious, serious, travel threads. I'm not funny enough to think of things like that myself, but it lightens up the attitude some days. Let things alone.

I use many travel books. I like Rick Steves for itinerary suggestions, but Fodors has the best hotel information for me. Reading what others say on this site about those hotels aids me in my selection. Plus suggestions from others has pointed me in a direction in Switzerland I hadn't considered.<BR><BR>I'm with you serious, I like the funny posts as well. I have laughed myself silly reading some of them but I don't like the malicious ones. <BR><BR>What I have observed about people is that there are many different personality types. There is the class clown, the leader, the logical thinker, the nurturer, and no one is perfect. We all need each other. If we were all logical thinkers, wouldn't this world be a boring place. But if we were all class clowns, nothing would get done. <BR><BR>So, I think we should be a little more understanding of others and appreciate each other a little more. If the class clown makes a silly post, laugh, but know that we also need the logical thinker to post their train schedules, cost analysis, etc. We can all learn from each other. As Mr. Rogers would say (boy, am I gonna get it for this) "you are special."

Sure, Serious, I'd agree with you, IF it were only the oddball, funny, lightening, to paraphrase your view. And, you may be sure I speak for only us. What I am referring to, as I imagine you already know, are the attacks, the nastiness, where one persons completely denegrates another. Yep, lets keep the light-hearted trolls and goofballs and funnies, no harm there. But lets try to get the obsessive attackers, who are ill, off the site. Surely you can see the difference when they start up, and surely you're willing to support making the site healthier. If you don't, you're entitled to your views. But I hope Fodors doesn't accept the status quo quite as easily as you do. Some people have gotten hurt on this site, and when you're one of them, you'll be calling for change too.

too many people not willing to stand up and be counted when the crap starts here cause they dont want to be a target for the nonsense. The nasties really got some of you on the run, afraid to complain cause they'll be on your ass next. Hey, its all anonymous, say what you really believe, and stop being so PC.

I actually have bought more travel-related books since discovering Fodors on-line- books that have been recommende online!<BR>ja

I'd appreciate it if anyone out there can name ONE previously successful and FREE internet site or service which suddenly decided to implement a service fee and continued to be succesful.<BR><BR>Yahoo considered a pay site, but hasn't figured out how to do it yet. Microsoft tried to charge a fee for the previously free ListBot mail service it hosts, and its competitors jumped all over it, encouraging former ListBot users to switch to THEIR free services instead. Napster is trying, but there are too many mirror sites out there. Everyone just migrates to the new free sites instead. <BR><BR>No one is going to pay for what was previously free, there are too many entrepreneurial web hosts out there who will step up and create mirror sites to capture a customer base. <BR><BR>If Fodor's implemented registration and fees, you can be assured that a site similar to Fodor's will crop up elsewhere and urge users to move to there instead. The remaining Fodor's clique will be the same old pompous fools who like to pontificate and pat each others' backs, except that no one will be around seeking their "sage wisdom" any more. Nah, they'll all be at the FREE site.

Surely there are business models of "clubs" - - for consumers who are "really into it", run by for-profit companies who sell products to those same people.<BR><BR>An airline (hospitality lounge) club is an example of this, right? Everybody can have a magazine and a soft drink on the plane (and some airlines have magazines and coffee in the boarding area - - or maybe they used to - - haven't flown southwest since 9/11).<BR><BR>If you want to pay, you can have something a little nicer. Mostly for your ego. Strictly optional.<BR><BR>I think we got on this subject from "how does this site influence your willingness to buy Fodors books?"<BR>

Speaking of ..."same old pompous fools who like to pontificate and pat each others' backs..."

Rex, you offered a comparison that is really apples and oranges. The internet is not the same as traditional old business models that may have worked in the past. It's a new business model, and to my knowledge, napster is correct. I don't think anyone has figured out yet how to get customers to routinely pay for sites or services that used to be free. That's the big challenge to most net companies now. <BR><BR>Oh, except for porn, of course. They are the only industry on the net that can routinely get people to pay for service. :)

"Club" is exactly what the controlling types here are trying to create and everyone else wants to avoid. No one is going to visit a "club" site so they can feel like an outsider if they don't conform to the cliquishness of the "club." Sounds like a guaranteed way to decrease site hits to Fodor's Travel Talk. <BR><BR>

I have gotten wonderful tips, encouragment, and information from this site that have enhanced my trips. That said, using this site does not decrease my travel book purchases one bit. In fact, it may increase it. I also take travel books out at the library. I usually take more reference books and notes on a trip with me than anything else! rebecca

Apples and oranges seem pretty similar to me. An apple is much more similar to an orange - - than an airplane ticket, a car, a house or a college education.<BR><BR>Each of those four require different marketing and advertising strategies. In my local paper, they put apples and oranges right beside each other on the same grocery ads page.<BR><BR>Aren't we talking about how to promote the sale of travel information - - printed on paper, with a binding?<BR><BR>If my local grocery store determined that a small number of people loved those grocery ad pages SO much, they would be willing to pay - - for their own personalized copy??!! I don't know - - why wouldn't they do it?<BR>

No Rex, YOU'RE talking about it, in your usual convoluted and pompous way, as if Fodor's gives a darn. How did they ever manage to create a successful business without you? They must wonder about it every day. And after they read all those "helpful" business suggestion e-mails from some two bit wannabe tour guide, they probably enjoy a hearty laugh before hitting the delete key.

Okay, so even assuming that people going to this site, then finding the Forum, then reading and replying to this message are NOT a self-selected group who would buy travel books regardless of the existence of this site (which I think is a huge assumption), note that only one or two people mentioned that they consistently buy Fodors products. (sorry for the long sentence, I'm a lawyer).

I think this site is an excellent marketing tool for Fodor's. They can glean a lot of demographic and marketing information from the visitors and responses on their site, and possibly even use it to evaluate their marketing strategy. <BR><BR>Personally, I see a large division between the predominately budget/moderate travelers who visit here and the obviously high income travelers Fodor's travel books target. <BR><BR>Every time I come here I get great budget travel advice. Every time I read a Fodor's book it harps on "the very best of everything"...the five star hotels and restaurants, the glitzy shops...stuff I'm not interested in and wouldn't pay for if I was. I don't want to isolate myself from the culture in American style luxury surroundings, nor spend my vacation time shopping. I can get more of the practical information I want from other travel books. <BR><BR>IMO, that may be one reason that the Fodor's site is a hit, but the visitors here don't often buy the books.

Surely there are business models of "clubs" - - for consumers who are "really into it", run by for-profit companies who sell products to those same people.<BR><BR>An airline (hospitality lounge) club is an example of this, right? Everybody can have a magazine and a soft drink on the plane (and some airlines have magazines and coffee in the boarding area - - or maybe they used to - - haven't flown southwest since 9/11).<BR><BR>If you want to pay, you can have something a little nicer. Mostly for your ego. Strictly optional.<BR><BR>I think we got on this subject from "how does this site influence your willingness to buy Fodors books?"<BR><BR>I think.

I only purchase books if it is a "big" trip such as 10 days thru Italy or 10 days to Hawaii, say. But, I confess, I prefer Frommers. I use this site tons, but I also go to my local Borders, grab ALL the books for my destination, curl up in a chair, compare recommendations, take notes, etc. Hence, I always quite OVERPLANNED by the time I get to where I am going. I also do a lot of internet research and send off for tourist stuff, since I also prepare far in advance, trying to utilize FF miles or hotel points.

This site is great, but it doesn't make me buy Fodors books. I didn't buy them before either because like "just" above they emphasize the high end too much. I am pretty comfortable financially, but I see no reason to just concentrate on things because they're expensive. The only guide books I've bought lately have been "Time Out". Others I read in the store, thankfully I have a good memory.