Pepper_von_snoot

Oh, come on.

One ignorant American goes to Scotland on holiday and you condemn an entire country of over 300 million people.

I live in the great city of Philadelphia and you should see to clueless Brits, French, and Germans who wander around like untethered balloons looking for the Liberty Bell.

Most of them can't even dress themselves properly or wipe the cheese steak of their chins.

Do you want me to judge the UK by those who read and hold the views of the Daily Mail?

Do you want me to judge a nation based on my opinion of the fictional character of Mrs. Jellyby in Bleak House? To say that British ladies don't mind their children.

What other stereotypes can we pull up? Let us see:

All British men wear bowler hats and carry a brolly.

British ladies all wear wooly jumpers full of holes and scream WALKIES at their fox terriers. They wear wooly jumpers because they live in cottages with thatch roofs and have no central heating.

British people only eat fish and chips. They only drink tea out of cracked china cups.

There are no dentists in the UK.

British people only name their children Alistair or Elspeth.

All British people have a picture of The Queen in the lounge. They revere the Queen and all lords and ladies. This is because they believe in a strong class system were people should remember their place in society.

Many British children are employed as chimney sweeps.


So, Fodorites, that ignorant American on holiday in Scotland can join the witless and clueless who posted above. Seems like there are a lot of fools expressing stereotypical views out there.

Tales told by idiots.

And sod off!


American Thin

FrankS

the lecturer was discussing evolution when someone in the theatre said he didn't believe in it. I remember being aghast - it had never even occurred to me that anyone would ever believe it wasn't true. .....
University certainly does broaden life's experiences.<<

Kate
I went to a major University too and discovered that Evolution is still just an unproven THEORY. Perhaps there is still time for you to receive a tuition refund?

Gretchen

No need for THAT, but expected.

Nikki

I first studied evolution in 1960, when I was nine years old. I did a report on it for my fourth grade class with a boy named David. We had a dramatic introduction to our presentation. I got up in front of the class and said David was not feeling well so I would be giving the report myself. Then David burst into the room wearing a gorilla mask. We had made it ourselves out of the styrofoam padding from a typewriter box. I pulled out a toy gun and shot him. He took off the mask and emerged a man.

FrankS

Then David burst into the room wearing a gorilla mask. We had made it ourselves out of the styrofoam padding from a typewriter box. I pulled out a toy gun and shot him. He took off the mask and emerged a man.<<

A foundational moment in Evolutionary thought, not to mention the basis for Stephen Goulds theory of punctuated equilibrium

Gordon_R

Dukey - I don't disagree there are some in Scotland who would agree with the creationist American. The difference is that these views are right at the margins of society and there would be no support at all for telling museums or publishers what they can or cannot present about scientific theory.

Pepper_von_snoot : I don't see anyone apart from you indulging in national stereotyping. My question was one born out of genuine surprise. What a pity you can't contribute something more useful to the discussion.

Flanneruk - sadly there are ignorant, uneducated bigots in all societies who use the excuse of religion to mistreat others. Apart from some ugly incidents associated with football, Scottish sectarianism has largely died out.

zippo

FrankS - The theory of evolution IS proven and is regarded as true by scientists. I think perhaps, like many, you are not clear on the meaning of the word theory. In science, it doesn't mean unproven.

vjpblovesitaly

"I went to a major University too and discovered that Evolution is still just an unproven THEORY."

It seems to have more evidence that that BUYBULL you clutch.

Pepper_von_snoot

This is not a discussion.

This is America bashing.

I am sure their are PLENTY of creationists in the UK.

But, yet you are focusing on some daft and senile old American geezer you met in Scotland.

Let's take a walk through London and find a Kingdom Hall and see what the JW's have to say about Evolutionary Theory.

Again, you fail to realise the size and population of the US.

There are many places here that I have never been to. I can't describe the mentality of a Southern Baptist from Alabama or a Mormon from Utah.

I live in the Northeast Corridor of the US. We are an educated and liberal population. ET is taught in the schools here.

I don't know what they teach in Utah or Montana. That is an alien world to me.

Local school boards usually decide the curriculum of schools based on state standards.

We have 50 states here and probably a million school districts.

Your discussion is futile.

Thin

WeisserTee

I was a regular churchgoer for most of my life in the U.S. and have spent a lot of time with people who are deeply committed to their faith. NOT ONE has ever said a single peep against evolution. Some of the MOST devout Americans I know are scientists, including geneticists.

Please check your stereotypes at the door or at least move them to the Lounge. Or, better still, spend some time on the websites of America's superb scientific museums and resarch institutions.

Michael

<i>I'm very surprised that someone would take offense to Darwin's theory. It's something that was taught in schools in America, particularly if the gentleman was older.</i>

Not in all parts of the country. There is nothing very monolithic in American culture, and varying traits predominate in varying parts of the country.

thursdaysd

The NE corner of the US is not representative of the rest of the country. (I live in NC.)

Later posters seemed to have ignored the first response on this thread. Further confirmation of the widespread rejection of evolution in the US: http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/Maj...Evolution.aspx

The prevalence of anti-scientific rhetoric and policies in the US is one reason I am seriously considering moving back to Europe.

WeisserTee

Oh for crying out loud, even Pat Robertson believes in Evolution
http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/11/29/pat-r...-earth-theory/

I cannot believe that someone who lives in NC's world-renowned scientific research triangle can say the U.S. is so anti-science that they feel the need to flee the country.

thursdaysd

Just as the NE is not representative of the rest of the US, Research Triangle is not representative of the rest of NC. You must have forgotten that for many years NC kept re-electing Jesse Helms, or noticed that both houses of the state legislature and the governor are currently Republicans.

mr_go

As much as I (and thin) would like to shrug off such episodes as wholly uncharacteristic of Americans... proud USAers like FrankS love to prove us wrong on that account.

(FWIW, the fact that the word "Theory" means something different in science than what it means in the general vernacular has been explained repeatedly to FrankS in the Lounge already. Save your breath.)

Pepper_von_snoot

Thursdaysd, I highly doubt that Chris Christie or John McCain (or even the late Barry Goldwater) are Creationists.

Saying that Republicans are Creationists is specious. There are probably many Creationists who are Democrats.

Thin

Gordon_R

>>But, yet you are focusing on some daft and senile old American geezer you met in Scotland.<<

I actually described him as an older man (probably early '60's), but he was certainly not a "daft and senile old American geezer" (your words not mine). I have no reason to believe he did not hold his views sincerely, or that he saw any reason at all why his remarks would be inappropriate and crass given the setting. It's precisely because I couldn't just dismiss it as some incoherent rambling that I find his view so remarkable - and to me - alien.

thursdaysd

"There are probably many Creationists who are Democrats."

Yes. But the opinion polls show that the percentage of Republicans is higher than the percentage of Democrats. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_...#United_States

hetismij2

Surely the simple answer to Gordon's question is no, not many but some do. Just as some Britons/Dutch/Germans/Indians/name a nationality do.

PalenQ

I can't help wondering though if this American was just a one-off creationist zealot, or whether his views are widely held by his countrymen.>

Whilst not a one off nut case - as everyone who believes in Creationism literally from the Bible must be IMO - there are many such folk here - a rather small minority - who would vocally express such nonsense but I have seen preachers at Speakers Corner in London saying the exact same nonsense.

In my schooling I was always taught Evolution was the way things evolved and nothing about Creationism - thank God we have a strong separation of Church and State that forbids teaching religious dogma in public schools - yet Creationists in some rural and southern areas mainly push for the inclusion of Creationism to be taught along with Evolution - under the title of Intelligent Design - that only God could make such a complex world - but these are in the minority by far - no one I know believes in literal Creationism but a sizable number of Americans do - yet still a real minority - most just do not think about it at all and in polls may say they believe in the bible literally without really thinking about it.

My French son's French cousin has become a Creationists and has joined a sizable conservative religious movement in France so folks always believe nonsense regardless of where they come from IMO.

But more Americans believe such nonsense than in any other 'developed' country and to me it is a national shame that such nonsense is perpetuated.

But come to think of it it is no more daft that believing in God at all - both are equally implausible - zero proof for either one - and I applaud the U K for now being a bastion of non-believers - regularly on Coronation Street characters say they are not religious - you would rarely see this on an American popular TV show.