Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Do I really need advanced resv seats on trains around England in July?

Do I really need advanced resv seats on trains around England in July?

Old Feb 29th, 2016, 10:13 AM
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Do I really need advanced resv seats on trains around England in July?

We will be traveling around England for a couple weeks this July. We are adept at train travel. I know I could just google my question and/or read any of the bazillions of books and websites to find my answers, but I also know lots of you who read this forum will be able to help me, too, so I'll ask.

How important is it, in July, to buy advance reservations for trains from places like Bristol to Preston, or Preston to London, or Edinburgh to London? I know that it's usually cheaper to buy well ahead of time, but the trade-off, of course, is flexibility vs cost savings. The big question I'm asking is: how likely is it, in July, that mid-day trains, for example, would simply be sold out completely ahead of time?

Thx in advance.
tomseeley is offline  
Old Feb 29th, 2016, 10:36 AM
  #2  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you book Advance tickets you get a reservation automatically
dotheboyshall is offline  
Old Feb 29th, 2016, 10:50 AM
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,137
Received 26 Likes on 4 Posts
The issue for me is strictly cost, while maintaining as much flexibility as possible. Buying well in advance means I won't be paying sometimes several times more for longer journeys. I can be spontaneous between the long relocations but never want to pay what I consider exorbitant fares for last minute train tickets.

I suggest you try some hypothetical purchases on national rail.co.uk using the calendar for advance vs last minute itineraries. I think you'll see the differences and can then decide if last minute is worth it to you in precise terms/£s.

If you're over 60 also consider a senior rail pass if saving 1/3 will be of benefit. It may or may not be. You'll need to do comparisons.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...40.aspx#senior
MmePerdu is offline  
Old Feb 29th, 2016, 10:52 AM
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,137
Received 26 Likes on 4 Posts
Sorry, here's the correct link to compare fares:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk
MmePerdu is offline  
Old Feb 29th, 2016, 11:04 AM
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
do British trains sell out? If seats are full I've been able to board many trains and wait till one seat empties out but they must have a limit (though I've been on trains that folks were standing in every possible space)- anyway how many trips are you taking on UK trains - if 4 or more longer ones check out the BritRail Pass which gives you the complete flexibility to hop any train anytime and in first class which I always have I've never seen a full train in that class plus there is a world of difference in comfort level.

In Standard class I would always reserve a seat on long-distance trains - anyway investigate the BritRail Pass that gives you full flexibility to chose trains once there - there are so so many trains getting on them is rarely a problem - some sources: www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com for lots of good info on British trains.

There are senior rates on passes too
PalenQ is offline  
Old Feb 29th, 2016, 11:21 AM
  #6  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
trains don't sell out - if there's no seats you stand

it's fine if you want flexibility and don't want to book - but, and it's a big but, walk up fares on long distance trains can be very expensive

eg Edinburgh to London - Advance from £25; walk up £140

makes you think doesn't it?
sofarsogood is offline  
Old Feb 29th, 2016, 11:34 AM
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
eg Edinburgh to London - Advance from £25; walk up £140?

makes you think if you want full flexibility to hop any train anytime the BritRail Pass could pay off in just a few long rides - most folks are fine with pre-booking in stone (I think many discounted tickets are non-changeable and non-refundable but not sure) to save a lot but if you want flexibility look at passes:

For example a 4-day out of two-month BritRail Flexipass costs about $280 or $70 a day in Standard Class or about 45 pounds for each unlimited travel day and for that you get complete flexibility to hop any train anytime - 8-day flexipasses are cheaper per day.

But again passes are not usually the cheapest way but for those wishing to just show up at stations and hop on the next train with no advance prep they could be the best deal - seat reservations are free with passes but I believe you do have to go to the station to get them with a pass (not sure you can do it on www.nationalrail.co.uk- think not).
PalenQ is offline  
Old Feb 29th, 2016, 01:29 PM
  #8  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I believe you still need a seat reservation with BritRail Pass. IME you may have to wait in line anywhere from 15 to 45+ minutes ( at train station ) for a seat reservation.

As mentioned you can always get on the train but may have to wait for someone to get off for a seat. While this can be manageable for one person, it's a real hassle if traveling with others.
historytraveler is offline  
Old Mar 1st, 2016, 06:33 AM
  #9  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,728
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Seat reservation is optional on British inter-city trains, never compulsory.

Off-Peak and Anytime tickets are always available in unlimited quantities, they can never sell out. You can always just buy one and get on the train, sitting in any unreserved seat you like.

But if more people show up than there are seats, the unlucky ones who turned up last (and who didn't reserve) have to stand. Simple as that.

How often does this happen? Not a lot, really.

Midday on a wet Wednesday in February, I wouldn't bother reserving. But a Friday night on the first train out of London on which the cheaper Off-Peak fares are valid? At that time trains can go out heaving, so a reserved seat is a good idea.

It'll take a few minutes to reserve a seat at any main station (the queuing standard is 3 minutes max, so no-one should have to wait 15 minutes to be served, let alone 45 min, unless something is seriously wrong!)

Incidentally, you're not forced to use your reserved seat. I often find it's next to a pillar between windows, with a restricted view, so I just ignore it and sit somewhere else!
Man_in_seat_61 is offline  
Old Mar 1st, 2016, 07:15 AM
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I believe you still need a seat reservation with BritRail Pass.>

Nope never has been and Man in Seat 61 confirms above - the beauty of a pass - just show up and get on any train anytime and to some that is priceless (like me) but many are content, understandably, with a series of discounted tickets booked in stone weeks in advance - whatever you wish go for it- yet if a series of discounted tickets even approaches the price of a pass go for the pass.

Groups traveling together especially should investigate passes if taking several longer trains - the Party Pass gives the 3rd member and up to ninth of a group a pass at half-price and kids under 16 get a free pass - factors that influence the efficacy of a pass - plus from Nov thru Feb the Off-Peak Special discounts passes 20%.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Mar 1st, 2016, 08:34 AM
  #11  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well, my two experiences in getting a seat reservation with my BritRail pass meant I had to wait 45 minutes in the queue at Kings Cross ( take a number ticket and wait your turn ) and another 20 minutes at Waverly. That wait would've been longer but a young man left and gave me his ticket which moved me up in the queue. This has been one ( there are others) reason I have never bought a BritRail pass since then. This also happened in Paris when I endured a 40 minute wait to get ticket. Ticket counters IME are always busy during prime times.

True it is optional but no reservation, no seat. True it probably seldom happens but it can. Last June on the 9:00 from Kings Cross to Edinburgh, the train was overbooked. Announcement made with many apologies but if you did not have a seat reservation you did not have a seat until someone departed train and, hopefully, no one else had reserved the seat.

Pal, the point of my post was that while one can certainly board any train with a Brit Rail pass there is no guarantee that you will have a seat without a reservation. With more than one person, it becomes even more difficult to secure seats on a fully booked train. As man-seat-61 said, this doesn't happen often, but it does happen especially on popular routes during the height of tourist season.
historytraveler is offline  
Old Mar 1st, 2016, 09:25 AM
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Or get a first-class pass like I do simply because Standard Class is often booked up more and more with discounted tickets and trying to run trains with few empty seats but in first class I have never EVER in decades of BritRail travel not seen empty seats and usually lots of them - in Britain the difference in classes can be astronomical with even gratis food and drink in first class - first class BritRail Passes are a great deal if taking several trains if you want complete flexibility vs full- fare fully flexible tickets.

Seats are much more roomy in 1st class IME and I always can put my bags on an adjoining empty seat - nice to have free food served at your seat, sometimes throughout the journey - now for locals traveling all the time without luggage Standard Class is fine but on the trip of a lifetime on trains IMO do not skimp - Standard Class IME resembles a full Greyhound bus and first class more like a limo.

Too bad you have to go to the station to book with a BritRail Pass and cannot do it online - primitive for sure -bring back a unified Brit Rail system in the UK and you could book at any station - why franchises do not allow that beats me - making reserving with a pass or open ticket such a pain. Maybe bookings can be done by phone or online? Anyone know for sure? Seems not.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Mar 1st, 2016, 09:28 AM
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 25,489
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
London to Edinburgh is the only one of your suggestions I'd make a reservation. But, and it is important i wouldn't worry about making the train. I used to do a similar London to Leeds a lot and apart from ensuring the ticket works on every train, I never (never) had to stand even Friday nights.
bilboburgler is offline  
Old Mar 1st, 2016, 10:42 AM
  #14  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27,609
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I really wonder how many posters here actually need or want all this flexibility PQ keeps going on about. If you have your hotel reservations ahead of time, as many (most?) people do, why would you bother about flexible transport? Especially if you had to pay extra for it.
thursdaysd is offline  
Old Mar 1st, 2016, 10:59 AM
  #15  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,137
Received 26 Likes on 4 Posts
I like the IDEA of flexibility but, on the ground, I rarely change the major plans. And know myself well enough that I'd rather acknowledge the fact and save the money buying in advance, when a discount is offered (not all routes are discounted, but many are).

What I do value is day to day flexibility in the activities I enjoy although, even then, if I want to see a place that will sell out (not many do) or those for which there are timed tickets for convenience, I buy in advance. I used to travel without accommodations booked but now I like to know I'll be in a given place that is the best I can afford, so booking the train journey follows.

There are places in the world I'm still comfortable leaving things to chance but the UK is no longer one of them.
MmePerdu is offline  
Old Mar 1st, 2016, 11:12 AM
  #16  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pal, I was in First Class when the London - Edinburgh train was fully booked. In fact I was very comfortable in my single seat ( advanced purchase) with a cup of tea when they made the announcement. In the last few years First Class has always been full ( speaking only of the 9:00 Kings Cross to Waverley ). I think more people are taking advantage of advance purchase rate.

Have to agree with thursdaysd, when I'm ready to move to the next stop on my itinerary, I want to get there at a reasonable time, get to my hotel, unpack and get started with my sightseeing or whatever. I'd hate an itinerary written in stone,so to speak, but I do like some kind of order.
historytraveler is offline  
Old Mar 1st, 2016, 01:43 PM
  #17  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
historytraveler - thanks for the update on first class becoming more fuller - not sure if still the case but on some trains there is a Gold first class - mainly for business travelers and there are other first-class cars for folks with discounted tickets - passes can use the Gold cars and in those I've never seem them full - but things are changing and I have not ridden trains the last few years and not sure the Gold cars are around anymore and may vary from franchise to franchise - Virgin Trains use to have them as did the East Coast line.

So there were two types of first class and perhaps now there is but one.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 12:31 PM
  #18  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think many train lines allow folks with a 2nd class ticket on weekends to upgrade to first class for a small fee - ten pounds or less - and on Virgin you can easily eat 10 quid of food - this is because business travelers use first class on weekdays but not on weekends.

So if you want to experience first class on weekends ask about an upgrade (again trains like Virgin I've been on put these upgraded tickets into a few first-class cars but not in the Gold section, which may or may not still exist - I've been in the Gold part with very few others and roomier seats than the folks in carriages with upgrades that were all full. don't really know what's up with that but seen it many times.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 02:47 PM
  #19  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wow. I started a thread, didn't I?! I'm glad. I got a lot of good ideas to think about.

All said and done, I'm a seasoned European train traveler, so I'm not surprised or distressed about all I've read here. I guess I'll stick with my usual practice, and try to make a few intelligent advance choices without totally rigidly locking ourselves in with no flexibility at all!

Since one of our trips will be Edinburgh-London the day before our flight home from Heathrow, that sounds like one we should probably lock in ahead of time. But if we're going from, say, Preston to York, with no preconceived idea that we MUST be in York by a set time, for example, maybe we'll split the difference once in a while in situations like this one.

Thx.
tomseeley is offline  
Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 08:41 PM
  #20  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"I think many train lines allow folks with a 2nd class ticket on weekends to upgrade to first class for a small fee - ten pounds or less"

Only at weekends, even then very rarely, almost never for £10 (London-Edinburgh in-train First upgrades, when offered, are £25), food worth eating is rarely available free in First at weekends - and if you sit in First without upgrading BEFORE you get on and the train's not offering in-train upgrades, you'll get a stonking fine.

Back in the days of a government-run, mismanaged, railway trains often did run empty and it was more or less standard for £5 or £10 First upgrades to be offered on weekend inter-city trains. These days, in spite of massive capacity addition, our trains are generally full and it's decades (offhand, I'd say 1995) since I heard the upgrade announcement.

Some of the train operating companies' websites refer to in-train upgrades - but they're full of weasel words like "many of our trains offer them" or "prices from £15". A terrific selection of these weasels is at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...pes/46557.aspx which sort of explains how to get First tickets cheaply.

For journeys that rarely take more than a couple of hours, I honestly can't see the point if it's your own money you're spending.
flanneruk is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -