Do ATM's charge?
 

Hey :) So I hope this question makes sense...
I am traveling to Europe this summer and trying to figure out whether to take my debit/credit card from my local bank (It is a VERY small bank, but it is also a VISA card) or to get an actual credit card (Since I'm only 19, I do not already have one and doubt I would get a very good rate.) If I get the actual credit card, I would have my parents pay my bill at the end of each month, since I will be gone for 2 months.

BUT I asked my bank, and they said they have no foreign transaction fee and only a $2 ATM fee, but they had no idea if the ATM itself would charge me. Since I have never withdrawn money even in the states from an ATM, I also have no idea... I am hoping one of you out there does...

Thank you :)
-Emm

Oh, and I am visiting Ireland, England, Italy, and France

No, ATMs in Europe do not charge a fee for withdrawals.

I would try to find a US bank that doesn't charge you any fee at all for an ATM transaction, though.

ATMS connected with banks do not charge. But commercial ATMS - such as you might find in a store or hotel - typically do have a charge - just as they do in the US. To minimize charges - on either end - take out enough money for a few days at a time. (I had a friend who always took $20 or $40 at a time- paying $3 for the privilege at the ATM in the corner CVS. I couldn't convince her the oly thing that makes sense is to take at least $200 at a time to minimize the percentage you are paying for the service.)

Separately I would never go to europe with just one card. If, god forbid you lose it, an ATM eats it or your bank goes weird you will be stuck. I would ask your parents to get you an extra card on their checking account as well as an extra of one of their credit cards just to be safe.

Typically it is your bank which makes any charges, not the ATM itself. That's been my experience every time - the only charges on my account come from my bank. Does your bank charge $2 every time you make a withdrawal even in the US?

What you do NOT want to do is to get a credit card and use it to get cash. Cash advances on credit cards charge a lot of interest - much more expensive than withdrawing cash from your checking account using a debit card. It might not be a bad idea to get a credit card anyway, both as a backup for your trip and as a way to get a credit history started for yourself (assuming you can pay the bill in full every month and won't rack up debt). Just don't use it as a means to get cash.

Whatever you do, use an ATM in the States first, and make sure you call your bank(s) to let them know you'll be traveling. Otherwise your card(s) might be frozen when you get to Europe.

Do you have a credit union to which you can belong? They often do not charge any fee for ATM withdrawals abroad.

Make sure that you withdraw money only from a bank ATM, not a free standing private one, which could charge you a fee.

I would get a credit card of some sort to take with you in addition to the ATM card. It's always nice to have a backup source of funds. Keep the credit card hidden away or something, so if in worst case you lose your ATM card/cash you would have some quick source of funds. Take about $100 USD with you as well to have some emergency cash you could change if need be - I usually do this but have never needed to exchange it in Europe - so far! Exchanging cash is more expensive than using an ATM card.

Let your bank(s) know before you leave for Europe that you are traveling over there, so they don't suspect fraud when you start using them over there!!!

FYI, I've never been charged an ATM fee in Europe. My credit union doesn't charge for the first six uses per month at any non-CU ATM. All I pay is the 1% Visa currency conversion fee.

Make sure you have a chip and pin card, as in some places in Europe swipe cards are not accepted everywhere (eg UK) or at all (eg Estonia).
My experience with a small bank debit card was not good: in Barcelona I could not use my Visa debit card in any Spanish bank ATM. When I enquired why, the banks would tell me that they were unable to communicate with my bank to verify the balance. Credit cards worked fine however. And I managed to workaround this by drawing cash from a British bank ATM.

I agree that the fees (if any) come from your home bank.

I would want to have a charge card along even if you don't plan to use it, as a back up for emergencies. Also a small stash of cash you could change.

For a big trip like this (4 countries) you definitely want more than just one way to be able to get funds.

Not all fees come from your home bank.

1. as stated above, bank ATMs in Europe do not charge a fee.
2. the ATM network (Visa/MC, akd Cirrus or Plus) usually charge a 1% foreign exchange fee - as Andrew stated. Some banks will add on another 1-2% fee, but none of my banks do so I never see that.
3. your own bank's fees, which range from $0 to $5 or more per transaction.

#2, the 1% is hard to avoid, and not a big deal. There are some banks that may absorb that fee, but they are few and far between.

#3 is much more variable.

I usually bring $100-200 USD cash with me on trips to europe, as a backup. For the last 10 years or so I've returned home with the same $100-200 USD cash in my pocket. Lately I've stared the practice of coming home with about 50 euros leftover, to carry with me on my next trip, so I've abandoned the $US backup plan.

You can ignore this bit >><i>Make sure you have a chip and pin card, as in some places in Europe swipe cards are not accepted everywhere (eg UK) or at all (eg Estonia). </i><<

You almost certainly won't have the choice, your current ATM card doesn't have a chip, and the info is unnecessarily confusing the issue.

Agree with Janis - you're not going to have a chip-and-pin card and you won't need one.

Look at the back of your bank card. If you see the PLUS network symbol or the Cirrus symbol, you should not have problems withdrawing money. If you do NOT see those symbols, you will have problems because you will not be connected to the two largest networks connecting cash withdrawal services.

Do NOT check balances or perform other transactions - just withdraw money because every transaction will cost you if your bank charges a fee.

Do NOT ever withdraw money with a credit card - you will be charged interest from the minute you're transaction is complete AND you will be subject to minimum charges from the credit card company.

Your debit card is on the Visa network for use as a cash equivalent, it is not a credit card because your account will be debited immediately.

I love when banks say "we charge no transaction fees." They define "we" narrowly hoping you interpret no means zero. Except for a few financial institutions, they all pass on MC/Visa 1% conversion fee. When pressed about these charges "oh, that comes from Visa/MC and we just pass it onto you, but WE don't charge any fees."

@janisj and BigRuss. He/she will have problems using a swipe (non-chip and pin) card at point-of-sales (ie. shops, which is where you would use the card to avoid extra charges) in some European countries. As I said through my own firsthand experience, in UK most but not all retail outlets did not accept the card and in Estonia I was unable to use swipe cards anywhere, even though in both cases it was a VISA card.

Not only will you not need a chip and pin card for most transactions, you almost certainly will be UNABLE TO GET ONE, as they really don't exist in the USA. So I agree to avoid that advice.

I have used my ATM debit cards in shops, restaurants, cafés...everywhere...all over Europe for years, without a problem. The only place I've ever not been able to use it is at the gas pump outside the major supermarket in Le Bugue.

Admittedly, I've not been to Estonia.

I've never had trouble in the UK (several visits, though the last was in 2009). You can't stick it in the chip-and-PIN machine yourself, of course, but I've never had issues with just letting the clerk know he/she will have to swipe my card. That's everywhere from London museum shops to grocery stores far from tourist spots.

I've never been to Estonia so can't comment there, though as it's not on the OP's itinerary either, that probably won't be an issue.

>>>StCirq on Mar 5, 12 at 1:07pm
No, ATMs in Europe do not charge a fee for withdrawals. <<<

Not so. There are some ATM's that are not bank ATM's that do charge fees. If you use bank ATM's, the only fees are the ones charged by your US bank, not the European bank.

Use your ATM card to get cash as needed from a bank ATM that has your same logo on the back. Usually your home bank will have a list on their website. Use your credit card for other purchases.

Yes, I should have specified that. I don't ever use non-bank ATMs (in Europe OR the USA), so it didn't occur to me to mention it.

Chip and pin cards are practically imposible to get in the US. Regular credit cards simply don;t have them. If you do a premier card (black or whatever through AmEx) you may be able to get one - but yuo have to have a huge income and great credit history to do that.

OP - just ignoe the chip and pin thing. It is something that european cards have that ours don't. But you can use ours anyway. I hve never ha d aproblem.

Just be sure your ATM card is linked to a checking account.

Ah, now I see why some people were so worked up about chip and pin. Well if you can't get them in the USA, it's pointless my recommending them. Good luck. Jent, things might have changed since 2009 ... my experience was in 2011. But as I said, I have never tried using the cards in an ATM - I use them at point of sales terminals. So if anyone can assure us that they had no problem using ATMs in London in 2011, that's settled...and I will in fact use the (good) news myself. Estonia is definitely a strict chip and pin though.

Just a couple pieces of advice
Make sure your ATM card has only a 4 digit PIN. I had a 7 digit PIN on my card and I couldn't use it in Germany. When I got back home I changed it back to a 4 digit.

Whatever Euros you return home with, keep them with your passport for your next trip so you have some money to start with. Once you go the Eurpoe you will want to return.

I typically pay down my final hotel bill with leftover euros, and save about 50 for my next trip.

<i>I had a 7 digit PIN on my card and I couldn't use it in Germany</i>

You should not have this problem in France. French bank ATMs will generally accept 7 digit PINs. If you have any problem with any ATM, try another location.

In the past PINS did need to be 4 digits -- but AFAIK that hasn't been true for several years.

"...or to get an actual credit card (Since I'm only 19, I do not already have one and doubt I would get a very good rate.)"

I think it is a good idea to get a credit card in the event of an emergency. You don't have to use it if you don't need it, but for backup.

It should not matter what your interest rate is, you just have to make sure it is paid in full every month and you won't have to pay any rate. You should be able at 19 to get a credit card with no annual fee.

FWIW - there is a true CHIP and PIN [no signature required] card available to US residents. Andrews Federal Credit Union issues it. It can all be done online. There is no annual fee; there is the 1% VISA charge. I applied last week and am now waiting for the cards. This is a CREDIT CARD, not ATM or Debit.

http://www.andrewsfcu.org/globetrek

Follow-up: our new Andrews FCU CHIP and PIN card came today, 10 days after applying for it [ 2 weekends probably slowed it down some].

I would never use a credit card to get money out of an ATM machine. It is considered a loan to you and the fees can be anywhere from 10-20% and the loan begins at the time you make the withdrawal, not when you get the bill.

When using an ATM bank card, your bank may or may not charge you an ATM fee, but the bank who "owns" the ATM machine will. Unless your US bank is a "sister" bank to the European bank. For example, Band of America is matched with a number of European banks to provide no fees on either end.

nanabee...I know what you wrote is the conventional wisdom but it is not ncessarily so. First of all, according to the rules of the shared teller networks, the bank owning the machine you use to get cash is not allowed to charge a fee when it is an international transaction. Some private ATM's do charge a fee but if the withdrawal is from a cirrus or plus network bank ATM in Europe and you have a USA debit or ATM or credit card, the bank owning the machine levies no fee. Your bank may charge a fee and as you noted the situation there is very variable. Some banks do, some don't. As you wrote, Bank of America in general does unless you use one of its partner bank's machine (Barclay's in the UK, BNP in France; otherwise the fee is something like $5 per withdrawal. The other part of the fee is currency exchange. You withdraw sterling in the UK. Using cirrus or plus, your transatin goes through the mc or visa system as cirus is fully owned by mc and plus by visa. The rules of mc and visa clearly show a 1% currency exchange fee abover the interbank rate at the instant the transaction hits their system. But your bank can add to that fee, just pass it along or eat the fee (in the same way some enlightened US banks eat the fees charged by banks if you have the audacity to use their machines for a cash withdrawal). It's a bank by bank situation. You have to check with the bank whose ATM/debit card you use and if there are any fees, I suggest you look on the internet, open up a checking account with an internet bank that has no minimum balance, move money into it when you travel, use that bank and that bank only for any cash withdrawals while on holiday and at the end of the trip, drop the balance back to a minimum...again it requires a bit of homework but the rewards are substantial.

Finally the question of a cash advance from an ATM with a credit card. Yes, the rates are high, in some cases as much as 24% but that's an annual rate...they are prorated by the month. So if it's necessary (say your debit cars are damaged and you use a credit card to make a cash withdrawal from an ATM, say $100, at the end of the month that comes to $2. Pay it back as soon as you get home and that's the end of it. The problem is that some but again not all banks charge outrageous fees for a cash advance on a credit card but again there are some enlightened banks around for which these fees are non existant. In that case, it's hardly a big deal.

I hope this helps with how it works.

In my experience, the only place that wanted to charge me for using my ATM card was in Madrid, Spain. I had the option to decline which I did because there was always another that didn't charge only a few steps away. You won't be going there so you shouldn't have to pay a fee unless your bank charges.

I'm not sure I would feel comfortable with only having an ATM card for 2 months. I only travel for maybe 2 weeks at a time and always take my ATM and one credit card. Many times, I don't even use my credit card. I carry it for back up.

Just wanted to say thanks to the OP and all the replies... This was the best post Ive read on ATM / Credit cards. I have been really concerned with the Chip and pin mayhem I have been reading about on the other threads, and feel so much better after you all cleaned it up!! So thanks esp to everyone who said not to worry about swipe cards :)

Do you think there would be a problem with swipe cards in smaller areas like Manarola?

Thanks

I have not read all the post carefully but I do want to say that we were NOT able to use our credit cards in some places in Stockholm, Sweden last year. Our credit cards were rejected at the tourist booth where tourist buy the passes to museum and the transit system. Our cc were Master, Visa, Amex issued in USA. The teller kept swiping but the machine asked for a pin number. I replied there is no pin number attached to credit cards. She said there is nothing she can do unless I punch in the pin number. On the same trip, we went to Estonia and Latvia, we had no cc problem there. The year before S.E. Asia, no problem there and no problems in Italy and Paris previously. Fortunately our atm card worked well.
RE: fees to Atm. Citibank told me there is a fee everytime when one withdraws cash out of the ATM machine outside of the USA except for ' gold members'. To quality to be gold members you park a large sum of money in their bank earning almost no interest. It's a bad deal I know that. Let me ask this, do the bank have the obligation to post the fee? I have a feeling they don't. If you figure out a good way to avoid fee, please share.

Just for future reference, many have reported in circumstances where a pin is requested that you can try entering any four digit number (a lot claim 0000 works) or the pin associated with using your c ard in an ATM. Some have reported success. Some say no go anyway. It's worth a try.

...or enter nothing and press the green button. All have worked for some in the past but no guarantees. Incidentally, some Europeans report when using an American swipe terminal say at a gas pump that requests entering a zip code when they don't have one, you can try 0000 and it has been known to work.

There's no need for a chip-and-pin ATM card because an ATM card can only be used in an ATM, and that always requires a PIN.


US credit card issuers will let you establish a pin for the card so it can be used to get cash advances from ATMs. (Could you use a credit card to get cash from an ATM without a pin? I don't think so.) I used that PIN for a credit card purchase in a Copenhagen store several years ago, but I don't know how common that practice.

Oops, sent too soon. I should add that the credit card in the Copenhagen transaction was the usual American swipe variety and the store terminal asked for the pin after the swipe.

In theory, it's supposed to be two different things i.e. the pn provided for use n ATM's for cash advancdes with credit cards. Some on various boards have said they used their ATM pin when asked for a pin on a mg strip card and it worked but then again there is a theory out there, as I said, that any four digit combination would work too. I really don't know but the solutino for everybody is now obvious and it is here. Any American who does any amount of foreign travel should immediately apply for an Andres FCU world traveller card. Tje siccess pf the Capital One credit card program was built on their willingness to not only not charge a foreign transaction fee but to eat the 1% visa/mc fee. I am sure their bean counters have looked into at least passing along the 1% visa/mc fee and have come to the conclusion that to do so would lead to a mass abandonment of their credit cards. This Andrews fcu card might just be the tip of an iceberg of more emv chip and pin to come sooner rather than later. Interesting stuff ahead.

Those who do not make frequent trips to Europe can get along just fine with swipe credit cards, knowing there are a few situation where they won't work--avoiding those and/or being prepared with cash from ATMs.

Granted...but then why would they be on this forum?

Well, you just don't know what machine where would ask for a pin number. I am going to Turkey and Greece and I hope i don't get stuck in a situation where I have no language skill, not enough cash and my cc don't work.

I guess I didn't see the post where the OP said she was American,, so in case she is Canadian,, we do have chip and pin cards here, most banks have changed to them. Get one. Get a CC too just for backup.
Better to arrive with 100 euros for emergencies, American or Canadain cash is NOT going to be accepted,, even in an emergency in 99% of places,you willl have to find a bank or exchange bureau,, not easy at night, or in a small town on a sunday etc etc. , Euros will be.