Discouraged by Lonely Planet
 

I have been planning a eurail trip through Europe and just got my copy of L.P.'s guide book. I was so excited and now find that they are critical of so many things I was looking forward to. Am I a niave dreamer, or are they too harsh on things they personally don't enjoy? Among other things they slam, is Oktoberfest really such a horror, with nothing to offer but beer, and is everyone who enjoyed "The Sound of Music" and visits Salzburg a loon? Do I take their word and skip these things?

Pay no attention. You and you alone are the sole arbiter of what is meaningful, beautiful, interesting, engaging, thoughtful, and entertaining to the only traveler who is important: you. LP likes to pose as pseudo-sophisticated, worldly, and hip. You will be served much better by asking the questions that matter to you and reading the comments on this web page that interest and help you. I find that LP's web sites are populated by the lazy, the obscene, the foul-mouthed, and the castoffs from the drug scene. IMO, of course.

Stephanie, <BR>Al is correct about LP-especially their web page forum. I use their books as "extra info" on hotels and things to do -they do tend to suggest some off the beaten path sites to see in a locale, but I mainly rely on Fodors, Frommers and this forum for my info. I also go to web pages of local visitors bureaus. <BR>Kittie

Lonely Planet's products tend to cater toward the young backpacker on a tight or non-existent budget. For these travellers they provide a very useful service identifying where the cheapest local clean sheets and food are to be found. Unfortunately an attitude of 'my parents liked this place so it must be touristy and tacky' pervades their commentry and this appeals to the young alternative thinkers their guides are aimed at. Don't be put off, seek a second opinion in another guide book. For the 'ignore the tourism and focus on the cultural' viewpoint try the Blue Guide series which are very much the anithesis of Lonely Planet. There are plenty of guidebooks available for you to beg, borrow or buy. <BR> <BR>Of course the Oktoberfest is all about beer, its a beer drinking festival and has no pretentions otherwise. Its great fun if your into it, if you don't like the up front 18-30 atmosphere of the Hofbrau hall try one of the other 10 or so halls, or vice versa. Munich, on the other hand, has a long history and some fine buildings, the Deutche Museum is one of the premier technology museums in the world and there are some fine gardens and vistas dotted around the city. <BR> <BR>The important thing is to GO. Its your holiday, your time, go where YOU want to go. Look at it this way, if you don't go to Salzburg or the Oktoberfest you'll spend the rest of your life wondering whether Lonely Planet were right or not. <BR> <BR>Visit my web page <BR> <BR>http://wkweb4.cableinet.co.uk/george...tweb/fest.html <BR> <BR>for my impression of the Oktoberfest and the rest of the site <BR> <BR>http://wkweb4.cableinet.co.uk/george.holt/holtweb/ <BR> <BR>to get a feel for me and see if my opinions are worth anything.

This is the same Lonely Planet which, in the Postcards section of its web site, lists the Musee d'Orsay as an "off the beaten track" spot in France, right? <BR>In my experience, people have different reactions to travel destinations, no matter how good the advice is that they get beforehand. If your dream is to see Salzburg, you'll probably love it. (In addition to Sound of Music, try to get a sound track to the old musical, "Bells are Ringing," with its hilarious and hummable "Salzburg, Lovely Salzburg by the Sea.")

Stephanie: All the above is correct it is your trip. I follow Rick Steves, some fodors and this web. Rick did give a bankhand compliment to the "Sound of Music" tour. In July 1997 my husband and I went on it and enjoyed it, including the luge. Just before that our 21 year old daughter who was studying in Europe and had religiously avoided the movie Sound of Music, went to see it, and also enjoyed it. So much so, when she came home, could not wait to watch the movie. The wedding church was incredible and the cafe where you stop for pastries is superb!. Granted the bus ride can be a little hokey, but the whole group seemed to blend in and enjoy. We tend to stay away from city tours and do alot of independent walking tours, etc. but this was fun! The sound of music tour, especially if you do not have a car, will get you around to alot of different locations. PS we were also at Oktoberfest in 1984 and had a great time!! Six of us went and had a wonderful day. Both of these are nice diversions from museums, hiking, shopping, etc. What ever you decide to do, enjoy every minute of it!

Stephanie, I wouldn't discount everything in Lonely Planet. I have found them to be very helpful at finding good and cheap hotels (although Let's Go has worked even better) and restaurants. However, I am a little turned off by their negativity sometimes too. For example, I used their guide partly for a trip to the Yucatan last year. We stayed in downtown Cancun as a base but travelled to many parts of the peninsula. Their guide gave very short attention to this area and really had almost nothing good to say about it. To a degree they were right in some of their criticisms (I found other areas I liked better and would stay elsewhere if I went again), but for budget travel I prefer Rick Steves, where you find a good dose of honest criticism but not so harsh. Lonely Planet doesn't seem to understand that there are many different people with many different tastes (they did pick some good restaurants in Cancun though). I also use Fodors and Access a lot, as well as some Frommers.

Ditto the above. I like the front part of LP's guides the best (the part withthe culture and history). I like the maps and the practical info, although their evaluations of hotels and restaurants don't always jibe. But the main thing is to let yourself enjoy what you want to enjoy. As Al says, it's your opinion that's important. <BR>And what's wrong with being a naive dreamer, anyway? (Just don't be so naive that you get careless about your belongings or safety.)

If naivity equals optimism, then count me in (and, I would imagine, everyone on this forum). What - people travel hoping to have a LOUSY time? LP takes the viewpoint "you'll hate everything except...". They do have good restaurant and hotel recommendations, and their city maps are excellent (It was the only guidebook I could find on Morocco that covered non-tourist towns in depth). I prefer Let's Go guides, simply because they have a positive outlook - ditto Rick Steves. <BR>I visited an old friend who'd moved back to San Francisco, and she asked what I'd like to see/do. I said "oh ride a cable car and see Fisherman's Wharf...I know it's stupid..." Her response "Why do you think they're so popular? They're FUN!" So go to Oktoberfest and Salzburg; people go there because they're FUN..

Better than LP or Lets Go,are the Rough Guides.I've found them to be way more comprehensive,both in history and hotels and restaurants.If you are a budget traveller that is.

<BR>I like to go to the library or book store and browse several guide books. Then I can get kind of a balanced view point. I buy one or two that best fit what I am looking for. Certain guides are good for one trip while another is best for a differnt destination. I have used Fodors, Lonely Planet, Lets God, Rick Steves and Frommers from time to time and made notes from others. <BR>The others are right, it is your trip and if it something you have always wanted to see, check it out and then decide. There are very few places you can go and not find things that are worth your time and effort. Have a great trip.

Stephanie, I find that Let's Go is the best budget travel book. I've heard good things about the Rough Guide but I understand they are geared more towards the British. Anyway, Let's go is the definitive backpackers on a budget with a Eurail pass guide. (You didn't mention if you were backpacking or on a budget). Unfortunately, since all these people have the same Let's Go guide, some of their places to stay are crowded. It also depends on when you go. But I've generally never had a problem with their hotel recommendations and I've always gone during the height of the summer. There is usually some overlap with Let's Go and Rick Steves's recommendations. <BR> <BR>Salzburg is BEAUTIFUL (it was my favorite place on my first trip to Europe) and if you love the movie, The Sound of Music tour is a MUST. I loved it. Actually, it is also a good way to take a short tour of the countryside. Another great thing in Salzburg is to take the cable car to the top of the Untersberg (the nearby Alp). <BR> <BR>If you want to do something, forget about what LP's opinion is and just do it! <BR> <BR>Have fun!

I can't imagine anyone not enjoying Salzburg. I have been there 3 times and have twice taken a Sound of Music tour. enjoyed both of them - once in '70 and in '87. If you like the movie/play, you will certainly like the tour. <BR> <BR>In general, do what you think you will like. I have enjoyed many places that were rated 1 star over those rated 4 stars

Hi! My wife and I went to Oktoberfest about 2-3 years ago. Its a great place to visit if you don't have claustrophobia, mind people falling down dead drunk right in front of you, emt's rushing through crowds to pick people up. As for the beerhalls we could not get into any of them. I later heard people make reservations to get a sit. It was a horrendous experience. We had to follow lines and go where they did because we could not get out of them. The hotels raised their rates. I know this because we stayed at the same hotel before oktoberfest and told the owner we were coming back. He told us that the rates were being raised. It is true that most of the people attending are young, quite a few are American and other English speakers. Think of Mardi Gras on steroids. Lonely Planet is wrong about Salzburg however, it is a very beautiful city and worth visiting for a couple of days at least. Not the most inexpensive city but certainly worth a visit. Unlike Innsbruck, buts that another story Enjoy alan

Given the above cautions, do go and enjoy the Oktoberfest - I used to live 5 minutes away from there as a kid and obviously there are drunks, but you do not have to go into the beerhalls and there are plenty of other distractions to keep you entertained, if you do not mind crowds. <BR> <BR>Make sure to buy a "Lebkuchenherz" with some tacky inscription and some of those giant "Brezeln". Great with beer. <BR> <BR>This is high tourist season in Munich - but there is so much else to see there! <BR> <BR>Salzburg, too, is definitely worth a visit. <BR>

My wife and I were lucky enough to be in Munich a few years ago for a different celebration that I have not seen mentioned anywhere. It was a day devoted to celebrating the anniversary of Munich's founding (held in June). There were performers everywhere and big tables set up throughout the Marienplatz. It was a lot of fun and maybe a good alternative to the more crowded Oktoberfest celebration. I had a feeling that this was something held every year. Has anyone else experienced it?

Oktobefest is great - but steer clear of the opening week to avoid overcrowding. Also weekdays a better than weekends. You can get into the beerhalls without reservations. You just meet some locals that to have reservations and most of the time they do not mind if a couple of people join them for an hour. A great way to meet people! Also all the beer halls have garden bar seating outside. <BR>

Whenever i start to plan a trip i browse through a wide variety of travel guides. When its time for nuts & bolts planning, I use Frommer, Fodors, Lonely Planet & Lets Go. I have only used Rough Guide once and found it to the very negative & condescending to the point of snobbery. Lets Go can come pretty close and it also focuses a little too much on party, party, party - which I just can't do anymore. In due fairness to lonely Planet, I have always thought they were pretty fair. i don't want a guide book that tells me evry place is spectacular, because thats just not reality. I have been to some places LP panned that I found delightful, and some places Fodors raved about that I thought were awful. Bottom line - like a movie, play or restaurant review, a travel guide is a person's opinin. And these guides will vary within their own label as different people are writing them ( I will probably give Rough Guide another shake). I would not let a guide book dictate what i saw & didn't see. Each trip is full of some wonderful experiences & sites, and some awful ones - thats part of the adventure.Rick Steves, whom Ilike immensely is not a fan of the Yorkshire Moors. I loved them!

My most interesting observation of Oktoberfest. With hundreds of drunken young people in the huge tents, when the music got a little out of hand, and people started to get on the benches or the tables, someone would come around and tell them to sit down and. . .THEY DID!!!!! Can you imagine that happening in the US? I thought it was great fun and wouldn't have traded the experience for anything... but then, I never would. <BR>And I also had some of the best roast chicken I have ever eaten!!! <BR>

Minority opinion on LP. <BR>For starter's I AM a budget traveller, though not a "Backpacker" per se. <BR>I like LP. I like them more than Let's GO, I like them more than Rick Steve's. There is plenty of historic, and cultural infomation. They INCLUDE negative aspects you are likely to encounter. I do not consider this a detraction. I have often wondered why guidebooks gloss over annoyances and dangers. The end result is a candy coated depiction, not a rational observation. My Central Europe LP was the only book that gave comprehensive advice as to how to avoid - or try at least- getting mugged on subways and public transportation. <BR>I agree with Al that LP sometimes has a jaded outlook with respect to the tourist establishment in some places. However, with more and more travellers placing value on "Authenticity" in their travels, I don't think a word to the wise regarding the schlockier locals is out of place. <BR> <BR>As always, I feel the best advice is two take 2 guides books, as they all have different strengths and weaknesses. I personally feel that LP is THE best coverage for historic and cultural information. Pair it with another guide that fits your preference for accomodations, and eating establishments.

As a non-driver, I find LP's detailed descriptions of available public transportation from town to town within a region excellent. In fact, I've often wondered why more guidebooks don't include such information.

I want to add my vote to the minority. I've used LP guides for Western Europe, Britain (repeatedly) and Turkey. I've never really found them to be exessively negative. Besides, if I've waited all my life to take the "Sound of Music Tour", I'm not going to cancel just because one guidebook gives it a negative review. <BR> <BR>I've recently started buying other guidebooks to compare, but I still haven't found anything I prefer. To me the greatest assets of the LP guides are their encyclopedic listing of locations and the emphasis on public transport. In this respect I would say that LP and Rick Steves are the best of two extremes. LP guides are great for exploring; many times I've hopped off the train to see a castle or cathedral because it was listed in my LP guide (and often ignored by the other guidebooks that I've checked). In contrast, Rick Steve's guide to Britain (which I recently read) basically sets out an itinerary for a few sights, with more commentary. If you want to visit Bath and the Cotswolds with reservations made in advance, that's fine. But if you want to go to Hastings or Kyle on the spur of the moment, tough luck. For someone who's looking for a GUIDE-book rather than a reference book, Rick Steve's is a good choice (as long as you enjoy his constant search for the cutsie phrase). For someone who's looking for lots of choices, LP guides seem to have the most. (They also happen to fit my budget and interests pretty well.) <BR> <BR>Most of the other guides I've read fall somewhere in between - more cities, hotels, restauraunts than Rick Steve's; classier digs, more recent prices than LP. In fairness, Fodor's seems to be the best of these. But for my style of travel, LP seems to have the most info and more useful info in my price range. <BR> <BR>By the way, the above opinions DO NOT apply to the LP website. On that subject, I have to agree with Al's posting above. <BR> <BR>-------------- <BR> <BR>I feel a bit guilty about defending a competitor's product on this wonderful website, so let me put in a plug for Fodor's "Compass America" series. I bought the Wyoming book this summer and loved it. These aren't so much guidebooks, as in hotel listings, museum hours, etc. Rather, the Wyoming book was a very enjoyable travelogue (and wonderful picture essay) of the state. Although I was only interested in one small section, I ended up reading the whole book from cover to cover.

BOOKLLIST just gave the ROUGH GUIDE series their "Best Travel Series 1999" award. <BR> I, too, leaf through several books and use parts of all of them. I used to love the old Temple Fielding books as he was so opinionated and quite funny, therefore I appreciate Lonely Planet for their forthright opinions and also Rick Stevesfor his common sense approach ( althoug I disagree with many of his calls). I don't take any opinion as carved in stone. Now, the LP website is another story entirely... <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

I have to agree with Dave & Dan. I took the Lonely Planet Guide to Turkey with me and would have been lost without it. It has practical information for the independent travelers that you just don't get with other travel books. Rick Steves' books are also very good for practical advise, but Lonely Planet's are more thorough. I, too, ignore the disdainful attitude they have towards the touristy sights. That's why we go there!! For the record, I took the Sound of Music tour a few years ago. The next to last stop was St. Gilgen. I fell absolutely in love with it and missed the tour bus. No problem, my sister, brother-in-law & I took another bus back to Salzburg. Use the books as a guide but plan your own adventures!!

Hi! My wife and I went to Oktoberfest 3 or 4 yrs ago. It was horrendous. People passing out drunk in front of us. The crowds are so large that a person is forced to folow it, even when they want to go somewhere else. We were unable ato get into the beerhalls, which by the way are not the regular ones. We were very surprised to see the age of most of the participants as well as the number of young Americans. The beerhalls in the center of Munich are much better and you will have a good time. I don't know how many of the people that posted have been there, but as one who has go at another time. If you do decide to go make hotel reservations earlier and expect higher prices. I know this for a fact, we stayed at the same hotel prior and during Oktoberfest and the owner charged us more and explained to us. Salzberg is a beautiful city and you will enjoy it very much. Yes, it is touristy but we are tourists. It is very pretty. alan

no one has mentioned that in salzburg there is an awesome beer hall in a huge old building on top of a hill that used to house a monastery...the food stands are great, and you can while away an afternoon in the company of other travelers as well as natives. and btw i loved the corny sound of music tour! most of us grew up watching that movie at least once a year (is it thanksgiving or easter that it's always on?) and i was very interested in seeing the sites.

Guidebooks: In some ways I regret the advent of the practical guidebook, as distinct from the cultural guides that I relied on in the 'old days', such as Michelin and Guide bleu. It does nearly all the work for you, as indeed it is designed to, but it was so much more fun in many respects to be thrust entirely on one's own linguistic and common-sense resources when travelling through(I'm talking 1960's here)rarely <BR>visited parts of the world, like Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Rumania and Thailand. I am surprised that no-one else on this thread has promoted this point of view. <BR>Personally, having been obliged by my travelling companion to adopt a more modern travel philosophy. I use LP, and <BR>Trade and Travel (in North America Passport Books). The newer editions are fine, and certainly save a lot of time, and no doubt money. <BR>As to the Oktoberfest, my advice as someone who lived in Germany for 15 years, is, forget it, and try to visit one of the many festivals held in other cities and towns throughout the year e.g. the biggest of all, Karneval or Fasching, held primarily in the Catholic areas (Bavaria, and States along the Rhine) in the last days preceding the start of Lent. <BR>