PatrickLondon

<People using the bathroom on the streets>

From this side of the pond, a major cultural difference in some parts of the US must be euphemism to the point of comic exaggeration...

And as for hotels not supplying wash cloths/facecloths/face-flannels: I think that's been covered elsewhere, but personally I would consider this a personal item and would no more expect an hotel to provide it than I would expect them to provide my underwear.

But there you go..

Maria_H

I'm with Patrick on this one - I now have a vision of a guy in a bathtub on the corner of the street - not something often seen in the UK! I do however remember being quite taken aback in Italy, on the motorway between Pisa and Florence there seemed to be a guy in almost every layby, relieving himself over the crash barrier.

Sue_xx_yy

"Americans are not well educated regarding the horrors of war and invasion of their home."

Europeans might not be well educated about the American Civil War, which was the first large-scale war to be fought with the rifled gun, a weapon of unfortunately vastly superior accuracy to all that had gone before. European observers of the conflict were convinced the appalling casualties taken by both sides were the result of the topographical features of the various American battlefields. They thus failed to take home the lesson that any future European conflict was bound to be as bloody unless tactics were redesigned to accomodate the new weapons. The result was that World War I, that most European of wars, repeated, rather than introduced, the horrors of modern warfare already familiar to Americans.

As for Americans' presumed lack of experience with invasion, I leave it to Ira to explain the significance of the song, now consigned to folklore, of "As We Go Marching Through Georgia" and what happened when dear Mr. Sherman and friends paid a visit to Ira's home state.

****

Regarding Americans' lack of overall education, I believe this might indicate differences of opinion between the authorities of various nations as to what constitutes a sound education, or even just valuable information. It is extremely risky to draw generalisations when one's sample is both small and skewed (I have contact mainly with Europeans employed in the tourist industry but even if I had lived there for a time, I likely would be exposed to mainly people of a certain occupational class and income.)That said, I've rarely been able to find meteorological data to compare with what I can find in North America. In particular, I have never found a TV weather channel to compare with those available in NA which explain WHY one is getting the weather one is. If my observation is accurate, this might reflect a perception by Europeans that to educate oneself about weather conveys few advantages.

Tulips

Belgium does have compulsory voting, but few people I have met here object to this. And indeed, what you do with you ballot paper once you get to the voting station, is your business.

Sue, I really don't see the existence of a Weather Channel as a point in favour of US education! In worldwide surveys of educational standards, the USA never comes anywhere near the top, in any subject, as far as I know. This is not to say that there aren't excellent schools in the USA, as indeed there are, but these seem to be more for an elite.

ira

>I leave it to Ira to explain the significance of the song, now consigned to folklore, of "As We Go Marching Through Georgia" and what happened when dear Mr. Sherman and friends paid a visit to Ira's home state.<

Actually, Sue I am a transplant from the most northern Southern State, Maryland.

However, I can tell you that the folks down here haven't yet recovered economically or psychologically from The War.

Tulips,
I think Sue was pointing out that economic and cultural interests determine what is a "good" education.

How many Western high-school curricula still include Latin and Greek?

>This is not to say that there aren't excellent schools in the USA, as indeed there are, but these seem to be more for an elite. <

So what do the African, European, Oriental and South American countries do?

In 2000, about 1/2 of all high-school graduates (70% of those who started as Freshmen) in the US took the SAT and about 40% took the ACT. That is, 90% planned on going to University.

Anyone else have this high a level of grammar school graduates expecting to go to college?

ira

I think that this is a good example"

"Charity calendar ignites legal fears
Belles in the buff can't give cash to city"

The women range in age from 51 to 84.

See http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...GFOB2SRM12.DTL

Tulips

There was a recent worldwide survey, comparing high school students in their proficiency at maths, language, science. Some of the highest scoring nations were Taiwan and South Korea, especially in maths. The Netherlands, Flanders and some Skandinavian countries were mentioned in the top ten.

There are quite a few schools in Belgium where Greek and Latin are taught, and many children take these classes. In my daughter's first year high-school class, a majority of children take Latin/Greek.

zippo

If Americans have such a deep understanding of their own history how come half of them still think that the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqis?
Everybody over here knows the truth.
US media sucks.

GreenDragon

zippo, that's really not a comparable statistic, as many countries, such as the UK, have a different system. For example, you take an aptitude test which decides which type of higher education you will go to -- trade school, university, etc.

And remember... just because 90% of the students take the ACT and SAT, doesn't mean they all go to college afterwards. SAT's were required in my high school.

Many more flunk out, quit, or drift out of college.

I teach at a local college that specializes in students who are getting back into college, and concentrates on marketable degrees -- medical, legal, and business. You would be amazed at how many intelligent, hard-working students there are out there who get back into it after having children, getting laid off, getting divorced, etc.

It's still all choice, though, something more socialistically organized countries have less of. Not sure it's better or worse -- I would have given anything for the luxury of being able to attend college without working full time and attending at night. I would certainly have absorbed a lot more in class, not having to attend at night, worrying about bills.

But then again, what if I had not tested into the aptitude of the area I actually liked?

ira

>There are quite a few schools in Belgium where Greek and Latin are taught,...<

Thanks, tulips.

Thank you for your useful observation, zippo. Do you have a citation for your statement?

Tulips

By the way Ira, are you OK there in Georgia? I read about the awful weather you are having down there.
I remember from my time studying in Atlanta (Emory University) how the people there cope with snow, and wish you good luck.

smueller

"In worldwide surveys of educational standards, the US never comes anywhere near the top"?

American universities routinely dominate global rankings. Most recently a study by the Times of London concluded that 62 of the top 200 universities in the world were in the US. Outside of Britain, only a single European university made the top 20.

At the secondary level, comparing a 16-year-old American to his or her German or French counterpart is as meaningful as comparing a long-distance and short-distance runner 30 meters into a marathon. Both the process and the objectives are different in the US and European primary and secondary educational systems.

The most significant comparisons must wait until the process is complete. Per capita, more Americans earn a college degree than their European counterparts. Studies of adult scientific literacy indicate that Americans are at least as informed as European adults.

In parts of Europe, a child's non-vocational education may be effectively over by the age of 16. In the US, everyone is pushed through the same compulsory program until age 18 (a mistake, in my opinion). According to UNESCO, the average American has 12 years of education (this is an average of everyone - Ph.D.'s to high school dropouts). The equivalent number for most western European countries is at least two years less. On average, Americans have a few more years to learn what they will need to know as adults.

elina

"So what do the African, European, Oriental and South American countries do?"

At least in Finland schools are comprehensive. Everybody goes through the same drill, and the quality is the same no matter where you live. Same for poshy and far-from-poshy neighbourhoods, same for rich and poor kids. And the results are good. Finland tops that PISA survey tulips mentioned in all three categories, math, literacy and science.

The results are here for those interested are here: http://www.oecd.org/document/28/0,23..._1_1_1,00.html

You will find the "mean scores in math, literacy and science" for different OECD countries near the bottom of the page.

ira

Hi Tulips,

Thanks for asking.

We are about 60 mi E of Atlanta. We got 2-3 in of hail and some ice.

Everyone stayed home on Sat and Sun morning. Around noon it was almost all gone.

I moved here because the signs no longer said "Bridges Freeze Before Hiways".

Thanks, elina.
Very commendable system.