differences in TGV ticket levels
 

Hi:

I'm buying some TGV tickets and wondered if it's worth it to spend more for first class tickets, or is it a waste of money? We're traveling from Paris to Avignon.

Any suggestions or tips would be welcome. Thanks in advance.

I was about to ask that question for the exact same route! Seems like a big cost difference for food and beverage service. Knowledgeable input would be greatly appreciated.

I don't think the minor difference in seating is worth the extra expense. You can bring a wonderful picnic on board for a lot less than the cost of the upgrade.

BTW, when last we were at Avignon TGV station, there were no signs for the car rentals. They are all on the west side of the station. So far as I can recall, no one has posted that signs have been put up in the last 18 months.

Thanks for that info, Jeff801! I did need to know about car rental, too.

no, it's not a waste of money, first and second class aren't identical. But no one can tell you how you will value that service, people have completely different opinions based on their taste for the differences and how they value that. I don't think anyone can predict for you what's important or how to value it. I like first because it's less crowded, mainly, and thus you have more room for your stuff and it can be quieter due to that, also. I guess mainly the seats are a little nicer, I'm not sure -- it depends on the route, I have been on some second class TGVs where the seats were not even upholstered, I think, but maybe those were regular trains.

I've been on second class TGVs near Paris that were filled with quite loud young people, also, and some were drunk, but that's not the norm. That was on a Sunday going back to Paris. That was a Tours to Paris run, actually, don't know if they were at some soccer game or just drunk in general (it was late afternoon, I think), but I don't think that would happen in first class. Now that wouldn't be an issue Paris to Avignon in the morning, I'm sure.

Tickets first class often aren't much more expensive, anyway, that's why I do it, in fact, sometimes they are the same price or almost (if you buy PREMs).

Some people will tell you it's a waste of money, they think it is. It's just opinion.

oh, I was going to add that the difference doesn't have anything to do with food and beverage service to me, in fact, I'm not sure what that means. YOu don't get food or beverages as part of your price like you do on an AVE, for example. Maybe they have someone asking you if you want to buy something, but anyone on the train can buy something somewhere, as far as I know, if you go to the right car. I never buy food on a train.

There is a difference between 1st and 2nd class - duh that's why folks will pay a lot more for first class - if no one thought it worth the extra euros there would be no first class. But i did not know you got food and beverages at your seats - at least not complimentary IME but perhaps this is new within the last year since i've ridden them. But anyone this frequent 'no difference between classes except money is nonsense.

IMO anyone who says there is little difference between the classes simply has not gone in first class and a quick glance won't tell you much.

Much more room for luggage and seats are bigger - 25% less seats in same train car size - lots of aisle and window - so called isolated seats - these seats can face each other and there may be a table in between them - ditto for 2 by 2 seats but i think rarely so in 2nd class.

Apply the same criteria to a long train ride as you do to the choice of a hotel, restaurant, etc. You can feed yourself perfectly well at McDoos as at more expensive restaurants, etc.

And as Christina says sometimes the PREM first class tickets can be cheaper than full-fare 2nd class tickets.

I agree with what Christina 100% or almost, including :

> I was going to add that the difference doesn't have anything to do with food and beverage service to me, in fact, I'm not sure what that means.

I don't know what you mean by that either. It is possible when you are in the first class, you can reserve a meal ato be served t your seat, that they don't in the 2nd class. But you have to pay like €30 (very approximate) and often heard the food is not worth the price. Also I'm not sure if you can reserve the 1st class meal if you buy your ticket on internet.

Well not worth it to me - yes there are differences but I'm perfectly comforatble in 2nd class. Sometimes there have been annoying passengers (I hate the cell phone talkers! and sometimes there are some annoying yewts) but I can make do for a couple of hours. Do try to get the PREM fares - they will save you lots of E's!

suec1's take is a good one - to her it is not worth it - this is a personal decision of whether it is worth it or not to each individual - but there is quite a bit of difference but that don't mean 2nd class is uncomfortable, etc.

actually, what I meant about first class being the same or cheaper than second class was even when both were PREM fares -- I think it depends on how many seats they have left. I'm pretty sure I've seen options where they say you can buy first class PREMs and the price was about the same as the second class PREMs.

Due to pricing oddities and train times, sometimes 1st class is cheaper than 2nd class! Other times, there may be 5 euros difference. In July on my annual trip to Avignon, I traveled in 1st class for 30€ each way.

(I am referring to 1st class Prem's being cheaper than 2nd class Prem's -- obviously they are cheaper than full fare tickets in either class.)

Due to pricing oddities and train times, sometimes 1st class is cheaper than 2nd class!>

brings to mind a thing i witnessed in line at CDG TGV station - an elderly American couple asked for tickets to Angers and the guy quoted them 2nd class fare and then said but for seniors it would be cheaper for them to buy 1st class senior tickets - now this was a few years ago and i do not know if senior standing any longer makes such a difference but indeed they went first-class cheaper than 2nd class.

Alright -- Went on to TGV site. Picked a Saturday in mid-January and here's what pops for fares (mid-day.)

Economy Restricted 2nd class -- $100.00
Freedom Flexible 2nd class -- $158.00
Comfort Restricted 1st class -- $137.00
Premier 1st Class -- $260.00 (meal included)


These are one-way fares. Seems like the higher end 2nd and 1st allow you refundable/flexible fares if you end up wanting to take a different train. Why would I spend $58 extra in 2nd class for that or almost double the differential for "flexible" and yes, (per the website) a meal. The only info the website provides is the claim "Dining cars are a unique part of the train experience, where the quality of the food and wine can rival that of a gourmet restaurant."

I realize that everyone has different standards of what is worth it, but it's hard to judge why it is worth it to pay an extra $160 by looking at the website. Less crowded and hectic does sound nice, but with 3 travelers that is a costly "nice."

A couple of years ago we took the train from Rome to Venice and had a killer meal and wines in First class -- I enjoyed it immensely but I wouldn't say the experience is worth $120 extra to get the "Premier". Any further knowledge out there?

Don't know what you're looking at, but I just checked the TGV site and there are prices as low as 44 euro one-way Paris to Avignon in 2nd class on Saturday, January 16.

I would never order a meal on a French train, so I wouldn't plan to do that no matter what trains you end up taking. Save your euros for when you can sit down and enjoy a restaurant. Take a picnic on the train - that's what the French do.

Googled TGV and came up with this:

http://www.raileurope.com/index.html

Is there a different website? Is it more expensive if I'm buying from the U.S.?

No wonder you're getting such high prices. That's the RailEurope site, where you can easily pay 2-3 times more than you need to. Go to www.voyages-sncf.com and look for PREM fares.

No, it's not more expensive if you're buying from the USA; it's more expensive if you're buying from RailEurope.

SuzChicago, most people who have read about RailEurope on this forum would not buy from them. Do a text search here for " RailEurope ". It's often mentioned (usually negatively) relating to TGV and other European train travels.

If you could find PREM fares (www.voyages-sncf.com) in 1st class and you know for certain that you want to take that train, buy the ticket before it's gone.

Bringing your own food onto the train is a good idea.

I personally don't think there's much difference between 1st and 2nd in terms of the seat size; it's more about the space to store luggage and the number of people in the train car.
For some, these two factors might be big issues.

Definitely do not use rail europe site!!

When in Paris for month in the Spring, I decided to go to favorite spot of mine in Les Baux. My decision was made after the 3 month out purchase to hope for prems. I looked aat first class and I received my ticket going down for 35 euros and my return was 70 euros, I think. This was my first TGV experience. All I can say is..I wish we had something like that in the US! Marvelous. Very comfortable, wide, spacious seating. Areas along the way for luggage storage. Great way to go.

Do your purchasing 3 months out and look for prems..real bargains..alwys use the sncf site..do not ask for it in English as I think it will then take you to the rail europe site.

Oh, when I did mine online, I reserved my seats online and I picked up my tickets here in Paris at a nearby boutique. All very easy to do.

Joan

Not even a thought--not worth it!! Three hours at the most--piece of cake.

Not even a thought--DEFINITELY worth it!! ;-)

At least to us, we travel first class on all European trains unless there's a particular reason not to. We like the peace and quiet in first class, especially in the cars that are "silent" (meaning no mobile phones). Groups are usually in second class, so are families with noisy kids (but not always). Unfortunately, loud mobile-phone talking business types are usually in first, hence our preference for the silent cars.

We're planning two weeks in Paris in the very early spring, possibly preceded or followed by a few days in Dijon/Beaune. First class train travel is a firm part of those travel plans.

I have not at all found it necessary to reserve 3 months ahead as long as I stay off the weekend holiday dates. Even to go to Avignon in July, I bought my cheap tickets in June by calculating ahead of time what the high traffic days would be and asking for different dates.

Wow -- Big difference with the French site in terms of cost! My French is not good enough to really help me understand what exactly I am agreeing to. Do I purchase the ticket on-line and then pick it up the day of travel? Or, should I go to the station a few days in advance to pick up the tickets? Do I get an e-mail confirmation or hope for the best in terms of knowing that my tix are confirmed?

my understanding is that either via RailEurope (largely owned by the SNCF or French Railways!) or via www.voyages-sncf.com you get an e-ticket and pick up the ticket at the station (or any station in France) - i think you may have to go to a ticket window as for the automatic machines i think you need a credit card you paid for the ticket with and American ccards seem not to have a necessary magnetic security strip to make these machines work - i am parroting what i think i have read - many times about this - an 'evergreen' Q here and successfully using the voyages-sncf.com site can be problematic it seems as well for novice users who often report their total frustration - yet the savings can be immense so it is worth trying and several Fodorites like St Cirq, Christina, Kerouac, etc do know how to work the site and routinely help others help make it work - so ask questions here and you'll get the right answers IME

That premium fare is something I don't think I've ever seen, so it is higher even than regular first class. You don't have to buy a meal on a first class TGV fare. Maybe they offer that to me and I automatically just don't choose it, I really don't remember.

I admit I would not normally recommend someone buy something online when they can't even read what it is you are buying, you never know. And there are various options, so it's hard to tell what you are agreeing to -- regarding pickup (and "insurance" which I would not recommend and it doesn't probably even cover you). Generally, if you buy an advance discount fare (called PREMs or iDTGVs, you are usually given the option to either pick them up at the station or to print them yourself at home--after choosing, they send you an email confirmation and if you chose to print them, a PDF file you can print). They may ask if you want them mailed, but you had better not check that if you don't live in France or you may be throwing your money away, as they will not mail you tickets to the US, of course (some folks have gotten lucky and said they did, but they are not obligated to and usually won't, in fact, the website says they won't).

YOu can hope for the best as even if you said you wanted to print it, if you couldn't, you could ask them at the station to print you a new copy. After all, some people could have broken printers or lose it on the way. But you must be sure to have ID and the credit card you used online.

Adding my $.02, FWIW: I travel first-class between Paris and Lorient (Brittany) on the TGV for an annual visit. It's the only first-class transportation I take, but I savor the quiet and comfort during the four-plus-hour trip (one way), even if every seat is taken. It's worth it to me--maybe it would not be to you.

There are periodic announcements about food and beverages being available in a particular car, and when that car ends service, but during nearly a dozen trips, I've never been offered food of any kind in the car where I'm seated.

As others have mentioned, there are numerous threads and posts on these boards that explain how to book on SNCF. For a number of years, I was able to print off my ticket on my own printer. For the last two trips (searching in French), I've only had the choice of picking up the tickets at the train station. I'm not exactly sure why, and I've been able to pick them up easily enough, but I'd prefer to print them off at home (in the US). Next year, I plan to try one suggestion I saw on a post recently, which is to search the SNCF website as a UK resident to be able to print at home.

Good luck with your search and have fun on your trip.

I am not sure either why sometimes you can print the tickets and sometimes you can't (even those of us who live in France), but it is really not a problem at all. If you can print the tickets, that's what you do and if not, you just pick them up at any station ticket office or out of a machine.

I think First Class is worth it, for the same reasons Christina and others have mentioned. Especially for longer trips. And especially if you start looking for ticket prices early, when you can find bargains for First Class. I just did Paris/Reims,(which is only 45 minutes)in First. Certainly not necessary for that trip, but nice anyway, for only 5 euros more each way, bargain PREMs.

This is a late addition to the thread but conversations about SNCF/TGV seem eternal.

I ran this test today: Avignon TGV station to Paris for mid-January. Lowest price 2nd class was about 39 euro. Depending on the time of day it could be two or three times that price. But there were some tickets on some trains at 39 euro in first class -- because it was two months in advance.

These prices come from www.tgv-europe, which will operate in English. The trick -- as has frequently been explained in Fodor forums -- is to avoid logging in as a United States resident. Great Britain works fine. That gives you all the explanations in English and the low prices.

Then I compared Rail Europe, which is where the SNCF site will bump you if you pick United States as your residence. 2nd class was 85 euros and higher; 1st was 120 euros and up.

Residence doesn't matter in terms of collecting the ticket. If it is a Prem fare you can print it off the site; otherwise use your e-mail information to get the ticket at an SNCF station. Rail Europe may deliver, but you're paying through the nose for what is now an unnecessary service in these days of the Internet

By the way, I could find no mention of a meal included in first class.

If you are 60 or up, SNCF sometimes offers senior discounts or first class at second-class prices. That's how I have travelled in both first and second class on this route. I'm small, and so is my luggage, so I hardly noticed the bit of extra space in first class and slightly better upholstery. The train goes as fast in either class and that speed is the true wonder of the TGF. Amazing, compared to North American experiences.

One more bit of good news: Customers who register as living in Canada no longer get bumped to Rail Europe, as happened previously.

If your French is good enough to deal with the methodical SNCF page layout, you can always try www.voyages-sncf.com

Another source of help, aside from the admirable www.seat61.com, is a blog I have mentioned before in these forums. http://parisbytrain.com/tgv-tickets/ will walk you through the booking process so clearly that it will seem almost simple. Almost.