delta or air france?
 

My husband and I are going to Paris in October for the first time. We plan to fly out of Cincinnati nonstop. We thought we might make the big splurge and fly busniness class. However, I just checked out both airlines on Skytrax and both sound pretty bad and certainly not worth the extra for business class. (customers' comments) So what do you think? Is business class worth it/which airline? (the price is the same for both) Thanks!

A friend of mine always flies business class on Continental to Paris. He said that it is better than the one in AF.

We have flown BusinessElite several times on Delta and definitely think it is worth the cost. I have also flown Business class on BA and consider it a wee bit better than Delta.

I would not fly AF business unless it has been retrofitted; I understand the old seats are not worth the cost.

Have a great first trip to Paris!

I can't say that I particularly like Delta but that was a few years ago - and in cattle class.

Equally in cattle class my friend flew with Air France a week ago and had a pretty rubbish flight (she flew Heathrow to Havana and back):

* They lost her luggage on the return

* They served one meal at the beginning of each flight and then the air crew literally disappeared! Passengers were actually going to the galley and helping themselves to snacks and drinks!

I'd vote for Delta out fo the two...

We had a really wonderful flight with AF in business class from JFK-Paris in January, but that was on one of the newly retrofitted planes. Food, service, comfort was all exceptional.

Well , I have traveled business class in Air France ( last month )and I found it really worth it. I really doubt Delta can provide such good food and meals as AF does....!! And the seats old or new concept are very comfortable. Air France business class is pretty good.

Is there a way to know if a plane has been retrofitted?

My butt is still sore from Delta BC seats..though the FA said our plane was scheduled for an upgrade. If I were doing FF miles for tickets or an upgrade, then yes the leg room and wine and lounges are worth it..but pay my own money for it..no way!

I've flown business class on both Delta and Air France to Europe in the past year, more than once. On the AF flight I was on a 747 in the upper section; I have no idea if that's considered retrofitted or not.

On both flights, the fully reclining seats were great; the meals were fine, the service adequate. I have bought good deal tickets on BC and have used miles.

For me the main difference--an important one to me--is that on Delta and most of the US carriers there is *incessant* noise and talking at passengers--whether re: when meals will start, duty free shopping, movie will start, etc. Often the talk is loud and not particularly pleasant.

AF was great and was generally quiet--few announcements; efficient, professional staff. Since it was a night flight, this approach was particularly welcome.

I would always select AF over Delta if I have a choice.

Check the flight numbers. Every time I've flown AF to Paris, it has been a combined AF/Delta operation.

More importantly, check the seat plans. On the 777, you're packed in like sardines. Last time I flew, the equipment was Airbus, and it was far more comfortable.

Hi S,

>We thought we might make the big splurge and fly busniness class. <

My advice is don't. You will be paying for a very expensive hotel room for the night.

I suggest flying AF cattle class and using the money you save to enjoy Paris.

"Fly cheap, Sleep cheap, Eat well" is our family motto.

((I))

Almost a year ago, my husband and I purchased 1st class tickets to Paris via Delta for use this June. We were hopeful that we could use our frequent flyer miles since we had more than enough but of course that wasn't an option. Silly us.
Since we've had "experiences" with Delta in the past, my husband periodically checked with Delta online to make sure our reservations were still intact. Well, he checked last week and they weren't - Delta had cancelled our flight and put us on another one in coach - without telling us, of course. Fortunately, he was able to make first class reservations on another flight. Will they still be there when we get to the airport? Who knows?
My advice - fly Delta if you must but be ready for anything.

Wow, RmKelly, that is not good. You would think they would, at least, contact you. Did they charge you to get you back into first class?

Summer,

There is only 1 Cincinnati-Paris nonstop flight and it is operated by Delta, not Air France.

Air France sells the flight as well (AF 8701), but you'll be on the same the same Delta plane - it's a Boeing 777 either way.

Personally, I've never flown Delta transatlantic, but business class is a huge difference vs. coach on any carrier. If you can afford it go for it, IMHO at least.

You could be able to get a better fare on a different airline by changing planes enroute, so shop around. A one-stop connection in business class is still far preferable to a nonstop flight in coach. Again IMHO.

Hope this helps,
Andre

I am a little worried about RMKelly's flight. DL does not have First Class only Coach and Business....

There are two possiblities, one is that you are in business or the second is that you are actually on Air France which does have First Class (I got upgraded once and it was VERY VERY nice) If you are on AirFrance and a change is made you do have to be careful. DL has changed my flights numerous times, but I have never been moved from Busienss to Coach and I am normally flying on miles.

Don't know about retrofits, but I have flown Air France coach and business class, and it's a significant upgrade in terms of roominess and comfort. I happen to like the wines and food served on AF, although I have read that drinking the wine is a no-no due to the dehydration during the flight.

Our upgrade cost me $500 per ticket, and though that was an added cost, I would do it again.

Bon voyage!

Re food on AF:

It is very good in 1 cl.

Make friends with the flight attendants.
Stay up late.
You might get a taste in the galley at the rear of the plane.

((I))

<b>Both AF and DL operate CVG-CDG non-stop</b> at least during the summer.

The earlier flight 4:25pm is operated by Air France (AF383/DL8535) on a 340-300.

The later flight 7:15pm is operated by Delta (DL44/AF8701) on one of their few 777-200.

I don't know what stage AF is in converting their business class to the new shell-seats on their 340.

I booked my tickets thru citicard for my FF points and we chose AF however when I printed up the itinerary it says AF operated by Delta....Sooo...am I flying on an AF plane or a Delta one...I flew Delta to Greece last year and it was awful.

Areala - You are flying Delta. Delta plane, Delta pilots, Delta crew, Delta food, Delta check-in desk. Everything Delta except the flight number on your boarding pass.

What is the status on Delta and the pilots' contract, bankruptcy, etc? Something you probably want to check.

Delta cancelled our flight entirely and replaced it with an extra stopover on our flight, so we had to convince them to change us yet again to a single stopover, which is what we had paid for.

My bad, rkkwan is right! There are indeed 2 flights - 1 operated by AF on an A340 and 1 by DL on a B777.

The Air France flight should have the new business class seats, but I would check with Air France.

Hope this helps,
Andre

I have flown both AF and Delta to Europe...business class and economy. I've had variable experiences with every flight...some good...some bad. I think it depends on the particular plane they use that day for that route and the particular flight crew and caterer.

On my business class flight with AF on a 747 the seats were horribly old and the plane in general was very shabby. No TV screens on the seatbacks. The food was nothing special.

On my business class flight with Delta, it was a newer plane, better food, seatback TV's.

However, there are no guarantees with any airline on a day to day basis, in my opinion.

I think the most important reason to go business class is that you know you will be guaranteed a larger seat and more legroom. Beyond that, don't count on anything else.

Just be happy for a safe and on-time flight.

Even the old business class interiors on the Air France 747s most certainly do have individual TVs - they're just not on the seatback in front of you but stowed in your armrest.

The new interiors have larger screens and video-on-demand however.

That said, I would probably take Delta becaus of its more humane schedule - the Air France flight leaves too early for you to be tired enough to fall sleep shortly after meal service and lands in Paris at the ungodly hour of 6:25 AM...

Hope this helps,
Andre

rkkwan....
this was not good news to me after our fiasco with Delta to Greece last October.

After that I said never again on Delta but guess what...I was hoodwinked and I AM doing Delta again....bummer..

I guess I could hope for a more pleasant experience. I will think positive thoughts. Do ya think it will help???

To CarolA - I misspoke, it was Business Class on Delta. There was no increase in price for the new tickets - also Business Class on Delta. However. there was also no credit appearing on our credit card statements when we were put in coach.
I'd be interested in hearing just how other people manage to use FF points for international flights on Delta. We are considering cancelling our Amex Skymiles cards since no matter how early we make reservations, there is never anything available and we end up using them on domestic flights.

RmKelly313...
WOW.. I am surprised nothing is available for you to use your skymile. I used mine twice so far, not this year, this year I am using my citicards FF points and no problem their either.

What I do is look for the flights I want first with flight numbers. I usually have jotted down a couple of alternatives just incase the one I want is booked (never has been though) then I call in and book my flights. Really, I never had a problem. I went to Greece last year and Italy the year before using my skymiles. Now I am building them up again for Italy again in 2008 with my sister. Next year in 2007 I will use my citicard miles for New Zealand with DH.

What I don't understand, at least with citicards and international flight is 50,000 points to Paris or Rome, and to upgrade to 1st class is another 50,000 points. As much as I would like to upgrade to 1st class I can't bear to give up the points when those 50,000 points to upgrade can get me to europe again.

Does anyone know of other ways to upgrade to 1st class.

I have a real low opinion of Delta, having had the misfortune of flying with them on a couple of occasions. Old planes, poor food and terrible delays.

I dont want to sound like a antiAmerican or anything, I'm not, but I know that if possible I try and fly a European airline across the atlantic rather than a US one. Virgin, BA and KLM anytime I fly with them all seem to have nicer, newer planes than the US carriers. There doesnt seem to be much distinction between services and planes on domestic, and increasingly budget like, domestic US routes and those on the international ones.

Maybe Air France are as bad though so I cant really help you there.

Unless discussing it with a company accountant I find it hard to justify the extra cost for business class. It is going to cost a good deal extra to fly business class. Think of the upgrades in meals/hotels you could have with that cash instead. Of course if the funds are there to do both then it is a nicer way to spend 10 hours in a tin can :-)

Have a good trip anyway.

Will be flying AF economy from JFK to Greece by way of Paris in the fall. Booked with Delta miles but it is an AF flight. However, AF will give me no info on the type of plane and Delta says it isn't their flight so they can't either. Would like to know so I can choose decent seats. Anyone know how I can find info to help me decide? Or has anyone taken this flight and care to comment. This will be our first time with AF. Thanks

mileaday - Currently AF has 4 daily flights JFK-CDG.

AF23 is on a 777-200.
AF7 and 9 are 777-300.
AF11 is on a 343-300 right now, but will change to a 747-400 later in the summer.

You can get seatmaps and description on seatguru.com

The best of those types is their new 777-300 on AF7 &amp; 9. The coach seat is the most comfortable I've sat on, with the seat cushion sliding forward when you recline. The armrest is also a little wider, giving you a little more elbow room. Lots of video/audio channels to choose from.

The main difference: Drinks are $5.00 with Delta.

One can't generalize the comparison between US and European airlines. Well, except for charges for alcohol. So, wally34949 should definitely fly European airlines across the Atlantic.

But for others, not everything about European airlines are better. Just a few examples:

- BA is very stingy with FF miles. You can't even sign up for their FF program on a cheap discount fare! And you can't earn AA miles on BA's London-US flights.

- Lufthansa has no individual screen on any of their longhaul plane in coach.

- Same thing with KLM's older 747-400.

- Many European airlines don't do online check-ins or have kiosks in the US, so you still have to wait in the check-in line. [Conversely, same for many US airlines in Europe. Still US airlines are generally ahead in this area.]

- European airlines aren't as good as US ones in honoring seat assignments. I get my or my family's pre-assigned seats taken away several times.

Well I've been flying Delta for almost 20 years.

Got two award tickets this year, one to London on Virgin in July and another one in business class to Berlin in Sept.

But I'm also buying at least 3 more tickets this year and none of them are on Delta. Actually, two of them are on AF but they are code share and one of them I did book through Delta.com.

One nice thing is AF has a direct flight out of SFO to CDG whereas on Delta, there would be at least one stopover. The AF flight departs in the afternoon while the Delta flights take off really early in the monrings.

Only thing is AF schedules brutal connections at CDG to Italy and Spain.

Thanks for all your comments. I'm not sure yet what I will do. Summer

I believe all (or close to all) of the A340-300 aircraft have been reconfigured, but double check with AF. The map on seatguru shows 7 rows in business, but in some aircraft the business class section actually ends at row 6.

mileaday,
You can call AF 90 days prior to your flight for seat assignments. Advance seat assignments aren't available in economy for intra-Europe flights, just transatlantic.

We are flying JFK-CDG July 5th...I was able to get one seat for miles (waited a bit too long...around February to do so)but needed to turn in 100,000. For some reason any flight for miles can only be booked on a Delta flight, not AF...this somewhat screwed up our plans, as wanted to fly JFK-CDG-Lyon, which AF does but not Delta...so are now taking TGV from CDG.

paule,
On a Skyteam/multi airline award using Skymiles, you can fly Delta or Air France or any combination of airlines listed here - http://www.delta.com/skymiles/use_mi...ards/index.jsp

Are you booked in economy for 100,000 miles? If so, that means you have a Skychoice award (double miles) which waives any capacity controls. A Skysaver economy award would have cost 50,000 miles but it's possible there was no award availability for your dates. The Skychoice option is only available on Delta operated flights.

paule,
Did you purchase a second ticket on the same flight? I assume you have but just in case you haven't, there may still be other options for both of you to fly into LYS for 50,000 per ticket in economy.

If you don't mind flying from EWR, you can do -

July 5 CO 102 EWR-AMS 5:15pm-7:00am+1
July 6 KL 1249 AMS-LYS 9:30am-11:10am

The above flights should have award availablity in economy for 2 passengers. I don't know what your return date and city are so it's possible that there may not be availability to get back, but I'd look into all partner options before spending 100,000 miles on a Skychoice award.