fyung

Below is my proposed itinerary for our(wife and I, age 29) trip to Europe. We have about 17 days. We would like to see the highlights of each city. Please offer any opinions if I should change length of stay in any one city over another. If anyone has any must sees in any country, please advise. Thank you!


Fly into London - Arrive Dec 17
City Dates Travel to Next city by

London Dec 17-18 Train and ferry
Amsterdam Dec 19-21 Train
Brussels Dec 22-23 Train
Paris Dec 24-26 Plane to Rome
Rome Dec 27-29 Train
Florence Dec 30-Dec 31 Train
Venice Jan 1-3 Train
Milan Jan 3-4 Fly back to Chicago

hetismij

Given your limited time you would be far better flying to Amsterdam than taking the train and ferry. Or switch things around and get the train to Paris from London then do Brussels and Amsterdam and fly from there to Rome.

I think you are trying to do too much, but that is just my opinion. You are young and can probably stand the pace, but there again you are young and can visit Europe again, so can afford to allow more time for fewer cities. I would actually give Paris longer, and miss out Brussels all together. Your London time will be taken up with jetlag and travel which seems a shame too. Amsterdam probably also deserves 3 days at least.
Have you checked that the things you want to see in Paris are open on Christmas Day and the 26th?

Bear in mind too that daylight hours are very short in December - in Amsterdam for instance the sun doesn't rise until about 08.50 and sets again around 16.30.

ribeirasacra

I agree fly to The Netherlands, a sea crossing can be rough and flying will save time.
Do not forget that most places close down for at least Christmas and New Years Day too

ribeirasacra

PS how about a train from London to Paris. then one to Brussels and then onto Amsterdam. Form there fly south?

nytraveler

Have you taken holidays into account? Nothing will be openon the 25th and not much late on the 24th and possibly the 26th. The same on the 31st and the 1st. You should relly findout what your options are now - rather than wait and find an entre city shut down.

hetismij

The van Gogh museum, Rijksmuseum and Anne Frankhuis are actually open on 25th December, but not on 1st January, so another good reason to turn your trip around a bit maybe.
Oh the Anne Frankhuis is open on 1st January, my mistake.

fyung

Thanks for the replies so far. I was planning on doing the overnight ferry from Lon to Ams. This was to save on Hotel costs, time and also I have never been on a ferry. But I will definitely price out the other options mentioned here, eg. fly to Rome from Ams, etc. I only added Brussels as it was on the way from Paris to Ams, but am willing to forgo it to have time in larger cities. Any more suggestions?

janisj

I would not take a ferry - overnight or otherwise - in late December. Don't worry about things being closed over Christmas. That really applies to the UK - in most of Europe lots of things are open.

I would cut your destinations about in half. In Dec the days are VERY short, the weather possibly bad, and all that moving/packing/unpacking/checking in/checking out will eat up massive amounts of your time. You will have basically 1+ day in most of those places.

fyung

Thank you, this forum has been a great help! -

It may be realism that I wasn't aware of but the "might as well stay in the airport" line - was that necessary? I have never been out of the US as a adult and just needed some advice. I currently live in Chicago and have lived here for the past 10+ years. I too haven't seen every single museum/place of interest here, but I can honestly say a traveler can do most of Chicago in 2 days if planned out well. I thought that I can apply the same amount of time to most of Europe.

As far as what I'd like to see, I would like to see the main tourist spots in each place. I do like to walk and explore and take in all the architecture. As far as museums, I would like to visit the more well known ones and skip any niche or smaller ones. I am interested in History/Arts but not a fanatic. i won't be carrying much luggage, just a back pack.

After comments from this board and others travel forums, I may cut out Italy all together. If I do this besides - London, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels should I add any other worthwhile destinations?

TIA for any more advice/suggestions.

MFNYC

You will be spending half your time travelling between cities and settling into hotels. I agree with cutting the itinerary in half. London/Paris/Rome each need a minimum of 4-5 full days, and that would be just scratching the surface.

Your itinerary in your previous post is much more reasonable. I would even consider skipping Brussels so you can spend more time in the other places, particularly London and Paris, and possibly do a day trip or 2. Amsterdam is much smaller, so less time could be spent there. Another alternative would be to do Italy's big 3 (skip Milan), and maybe 1 other city.

To go from London to Paris, take the Eurostar. It's quick and easy.

Shanghainese

Not in this particular order, suggest you do London, Paris, Rome, could add Amsterdam plus a daytrip to Brussels from AMS.

ribeirasacra

janisj Sorry but I think you will find you are not correct in saying that public buildings are open over Christmas and new year...We Europeans like a few days to spend with the family too.


fyung I would agree dropping off Italy this time would improve your plans.

hetismij

ribeirasacra - as I said in an earlier post the museums in Amsterdam are open over Christmas.

janisj

ribeirasacra: My point is that in most places, the country does not completely shut down like in the UK. There is some public transport, there are some museums, some restaurants -- SOME things to do.

In London there is nothing - absolutely nothing except for a few ethnic restaurants, some hotel dining rooms, a VERY few VERY expensive lunch/dinner options. There are no trains, no buses, no underground/tube trains, no theatre, no museums/galleries/castles, no stores, and almost no taxis. If you want/need to go somewhere you have to walk.

That is what I meant

Peter_S_Aus

My ten cents worth. You can travel, or you can go sight seeing, or you can do a bit of both. Travelling, I think, is about seeing how a place works, how people live, trying to experience a little of the culture.

Moving from city to city “burns” almost a full day, certainly half a day, even in places like Italy where the trains are excellent and the cities are close. It takes time just to get your bearings, find the hotel and orient yourself. Your plan has about eight places in seventeen days, which is very rushed. It looks like a little like a bus tour, a “It’s Monday, so this must be Brussels” kind of plan.

People on here talk about “the big three” when planning Italy. Rome, Florence, Venice.

The “big three” for Europe are London, Paris and Rome. I’d suggest visiting just those cities, which gives you three languages, three countries, three cultures.

(OK, Fodorites, I’m standing by for objections to my selection of those cities as the Big Three. Mea culpa. But be constructive please, so that the gentleman in Chicago gets some more good advice.)

zeppole

I've been avoiding this thread:

I think the proposed itineraries for northern Europe during the shortest days of the year are an invitation to pneumonia. I know the original poster is young. I know the travelers live in Chicago.

Still, the weather in that part of the world is damp with sideways rain and dark for a great deal of the day. Tourists by necessity are outdoors way more than they are at home -- and even more so if they are looking to save money, and not spring for taxis. They are short on sleep (the major cause of getting a cold according to latest studies) and eat far differently and drink more (lowers the immune system).

Instead of dropping Italy from the agenda, I would consider making it the focus, with an emphasis on cities with lots of indoor activities should the weather get wet (Rome, Firenze, Pisa, Venice). Follow Italy with an overnight train to Paris, and then a train to London and fly home.

zeppole

PS: Avg temp in Rome in your time window is about 55. For Amsterdam and Paris, it is 40.

zeppole

London sees temps of about 45.

hetismij

The average temperature - so a combination of highs and lows for December in Amsterdam is actually 43F. It is very rarely really cold then, that usually comes in January/February if it comes at all. But compare dot Chicago it is still a good temperature.
There is less rain in December than in say October, and there are plenty of places to get into to avoid any rain, plus public transport to save walking in it.
Rome can be just as cold grey and miserable as any northern European destination in December.

kfusto

I would agree with the recommendation to cut the places you are visiting in half. It is also quite possible to base in a city and do day trips, thereby seeing more but spending less time traveling as you are not packing and unpacking, changing hotels, etc.

If you want to focus on large cities then London, Paris and Rome would be good options and both offer options for easy day trips as well. Not being sure what attracted you to the cities you chose, it is hard to know what you are looking for.

I like to travel to Europe in December as crowds are less and prices lower.

I really enjoy Italy in December and would be likely to focus on one country perhaps two, rather than doing so much. You have chosen some of the world's most expensive cities for this trip so if cost is a consideration, perhaps relook at your overall objectives for the trip.

Some countries are very good values, like Germany and Austria and we are headed there for the 5 time this winter as our dollar goes so much farther there than in many other European countries.

Transportation can get expensive so definitely look into cheap flights on whichbudget.com if you decide to stick with so many cities.

Get familiar with the discount hotel sites and do a lot of research on tripadvisor.com for hotels. I like to prepay my hotels to save money and also so that we do not have bills to come to after our vacation.

Look into transport and museum passes for the major cities on your list.

And have a fabulous first trip to Europe! I went for the first time at 17 and have not stopped since.