Death by purse - redux.

Jan 5th, 2008, 06:55 PM
  #21  
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There were many more than one incident reported in Asia. And if it happens or happened in Asia ,why could it not happen in Europe? The laws of physics don't change by continent.

When I travel to Asia, I shall re-examine the situation. Show where I said the laws of physics aren't universal, and I'll retract it.

Of course , we all realize that the Robe will never give up or give in, he's always right, at least in his mind.

Everyone is, sweetie. It's the nature of human consciousness.
Robespierre is offline  
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:47 PM
  #22  
 
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Robes - that's not just my opinion.

The stats on crimes have been indexed by LEAs for comparison purposes. LEAs track the same criteria. Look at the FBI website and you will see the criteria - it is very specific on the data collected and does NOT include injuries obtained due to purse snatchings.

With the data not being collected by LEAs, then other organization have no data with which to assess the risks.
toedtoes is offline  
Jan 5th, 2008, 10:12 PM
  #23  
 
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I've checked the Australian Bureau of Statistics and the South Australian Police Crime statistics, but neither go down to the category of "being dragged while having your purse snatched".

It would probably fall under the category of "Other Theft" or "Unarmed Robbery", both of which appear to be on the decline. However, the use of scooters in Australia has increased significantly over previous years, so you would expect the exact crime you are discussing to be on the increase in Australia. Best to avoid travelling here in that case.
speckles is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 04:47 AM
  #24  
 
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Once more! Custom has females carrying purses...males never. Purses make attractive targets for snatchers. Solution; a travel vest. Aside: new problem, males are carrying keys in one hand and the phone in the other...what to do with the cigarette?
GSteed is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 06:56 AM
  #25  
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Author: toedtoes
Date: 01/05/2008, 10:47 pm

Robes - that's not just my opinion.

The stats on crimes have been indexed by LEAs for comparison purposes. LEAs track the same criteria. Look at the FBI website and you will see the criteria - it is very specific on the data collected and does NOT include injuries obtained due to purse snatchings.

With the data not being collected by LEAs, then other organization have no data with which to assess the risks.


I think you've either lost track of your opinion I was referring to, or you're just being disingenuous for the sake of argument.

The fact that a specific LEA doesn't catalog motorcycle draggings in a separate category does not indicate that such data does not exist. The fact that you think it doesn't is immaterial.

Robes - if you want actual stats and not people's opinions, then I suggest you go talk to a law enforcement agency rather than posting your question on Fodors.

What a reply! Don't you know that the information on where to find every morsel of human knowledge is known to some Fodorite or another? This forum is the ultimate Index of Indexes of Indexes.
Robespierre is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 07:15 AM
  #26  
 
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"The fact that a specific LEA doesn't catalog motorcycle draggings in a separate category does not indicate that such data does not exist" If you're so sure that the data exists, and you're so interested in finding it, why are you expecting other people to go look for it instead of looking for it yourself? (Since it's clear no-one has the stats to hand.)
thursdaysd is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 09:10 AM
  #27  
 
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<<< Well - that could be because the perceived risk is minimal in either case. Or - because the perceived payoff could justify an increased risk. >>>

But a thief is more likely to snatch a bag that's easily removal, so wearing a bag across the chest reduces the chance of that bag being snatched as the thief will pick an easier target.

It what most anti-theft devices / techniques do - they move the risk to someone else who isn't as well protected
alanRow is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 09:48 AM
  #28  
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You missed the other half of my hypothetical. It is equally possible that a thief will specifically target a person with a cross-chest strap because of the assumption that the victim has something more valuable to protect than one casually swinging a bag.

Alas, it is all unknowable. So all we have is statistics (if any) to go on.

Absent that, it's "your guess is as good as mine."
Robespierre is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 09:53 AM
  #29  
 
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new problem, males are carrying keys in one hand and the phone in the other...what to do with the cigarette?

Or, in urban America, what hand does the robber use to grab your wallet when he has one hand holding a gun and the other holding up his pants?

Linda431 is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 09:56 AM
  #30  
 
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I'm still trying to make up my mind whether Mme. Robespierre should carry a purse cross-chest with a steel strap.

Didn't realize you were such a chauvinist RP. Why not let her make the decision?
Linda431 is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 10:12 AM
  #31  
 
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<<Opinions are worthless where science is concerned. I don't care about your opinion, I want facts.>>

You crack me up, Robespierre.

Here's a personally gathered statistic for you:

In 30 years in NYC I remember ONE incident on the news of a woman being assaulted in the manner you describe - except that it was someone in a van, not a motorcycle, who reached out the window (!) and she was dragged just far enough to kill her.

This is my personal stat, and reflects only those news programs I actually heard, and only those cases actually reported in the news (which possibly means similar assaults not resulting in death were deemed insignificant.)

Personally, I carry my gym bag or briefcase in the described manner because it's less stressful on my back than the off the shoulder method. Also doesn't slip around so much. But I don't think "snatch and go" has ever been the favored method here. Too much traffic.

You and Mme Robes are experienced travelers, so the statistic that I'd consider most relevant would be more personal: what is your record so far re: awareness of surroundings, maintenance of personal security, etc? If good, it's likely to continue to be so. Because unless the statistics compiled are extremely specific (age and size of victim, number of assaults vs number of female visitors, and other details ad infinitum) it will be difficult to apply them. Stats are only as good as their complete context.

As to MMe's security, perhaps a breakaway (velcro) strap would be the answer. A steel strap would be a bad idea in any case: should Mme be in some other crisis one can imagine emergency personnel trying to cut through the strap to free her from collapsed scaffolding or earthquake debris, administer cpr, raise her from floodwaters ...

A steel strap: But now it's clear - you are Jason Bourne and she is your "carrier".
tomassocroccante is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 11:29 AM
  #32  
 
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Ackislander---even if there are 2 people on the motorcycle, with the one riding behind doing the grab, the sudden impact is going to have a major effect on the motorcycle. The operator can feel every little movement or weight shift of his or her passenger. A sudden resistance, with the passenger holding tightly to the bike to stay on, is going to make the motorcycle very difficult to control. Maybe the practice or something; I don't know.

Here's a thought: the steel strap on the purse is there to prevent cutting of the strap, not a motorcycle grab or the mugging that BTilke experienced. Would it solve the problem to have a hidden "breakaway" point on the strap, so that if someone did actually grab it it would give way? It would still resist cutting (which I presume happens in a crowd or a tightly-packed queue). But it wouldn't allow the wearer to be dragged or hurt if someone tries to pull it off.
Nora_S is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 11:56 AM
  #33  
 
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Robes - you're right. I'm wrong.

Here are the stats for San Francisco in the year 2006:

total purse snatchings: 3,487
purse snatchings where purse was worn on one shoulder: 2,834
purse snatchings where purse was worn across body: 592
purse snatchings where purse was carried tucked into arm and body: 61
injuries occurred due to wearing purse across body: 223
injuries occurred due to victim refusing to let go of purse: 1,764
injuries occurred due to fodorites whacking Robes over head with said purses: 45,976

Does that help?
toedtoes is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 01:03 PM
  #34  
 
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RE: cutting straps to facilitate theft

I believe it is just as comon if not more for a thief to slice the side of the bag and slip in a hand to take whatever is there. This happens with backpacks, etc as well and the location or material of the strap would be ... immaterial.

Meanwhile, at dinner last night a woman I know who has lived in NYC for 30 years or more and traveled all over the country and much of the world on tour as an actress simply put her purse on the floor next to our booth (and adjacent to a doorway) with no thought at all as to how convenient that was for someone who might want it.

Proving that in addition to experience, it helps to be smart.
tomassocroccante is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 01:16 PM
  #35  
 
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Toedtoes I loved your post.
nametaken is offline  
Jan 6th, 2008, 01:21 PM
  #36  
 
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<<< It is equally possible that a thief will specifically target a person with a cross-chest strap because of the assumption that the victim has something more valuable to protect than one casually swinging a bag. >>>

Why would they think that?
alanRow is offline  
Jan 7th, 2008, 08:34 AM
  #37  
 
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I would have thought a thief would be less likely to target someone wearing their bag across the body, because it'll be much harder to get off.

But, even if not, would just one or two examples of an injury or death really make you change the way you carry your bag?

If someone showed you stats for people hurting themselves on escalators eg long coats or high heels catching in the mechanism (probably about the same incidence as serious injury from bag snatching!) would you change what you wear? I bet you wouldn't.

Also, as has been said before. If you wouldn't wear a steel strap, carry your bag in a certain way at home, why would you change the way you behave abroad. Unless you can show some really compelling stats that bag snatching/pick-pocketing is far more prevalent in your holiday destination than it is in your home town (which, frankly, I find impossible to believe if we are taking about major cities in the States) than why worry?
RM67 is offline  
Jan 7th, 2008, 09:18 AM
  #38  
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Author: Linda431
Date: 01/06/2008, 12:56 pm

I'm still trying to make up my mind whether Mme. Robespierre should carry a purse cross-chest with a steel strap.

Didn't realize you were such a chauvinist RP. Why not let her make the decision?


She asked me to research the matter so we could reach a logical conclusion together. Didn't realize you were such a man-hater.

Author: nametaken ([email protected])
Date: 01/06/2008, 04:16 pm

Toedtoes I loved your post.


Thank you for your contribution. It certainly raised the level of the discourse.
Robespierre is offline  
Jan 7th, 2008, 09:44 AM
  #39  
 
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The biggest reason I wear my bag "bandolier" style is age related. At my age, if it's not strapped on, it's left behind. I will however, have to weigh the risk of possible drowning next time I'm on the Vaporetto. Some of those gondolas are going quite fast. It would be a pity if my strap were snagged and I ended up in the drink. ;/)

--Annie
anniemackie is offline  
Jan 7th, 2008, 11:02 AM
  #40  
 
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So how is the backpack type purse in terms of safety?
Anya is offline  

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