DC to Muerren, Zermatt, Bellagio then Venice. Q's about itinerary!
 

I HAVE searched and read all the posts on this stuff, BUT I still have Q's. We have 16 days to take off next June 2004 - we were thinking of flying into Zurich from Wash DC and taking a train to Lauterbrunnen to stay at Muerren for 4 nights. Anfi Palace vs Eiger vs Alpenruh? I'm leaning towards Alpenruh due to the lower cost, as long as we can get one of their nicest, highest rooms! My wife will freak if we get a claustrophobic, tiny room that's dinghy. Anyone just come back from this area the last couple weeks?

Is that too ambitious a first day, as we'll be on a red eye from the States and will probably be tired as heck from the trip. We don't sleep much in airplanes. How long from Zurich to Muerren door to door? Is there a better airport to fly into? Should we overnight in Zurich or Lucerne that first night or just head straight for our destination #1- Muerren?

Instead of doing Lucerne (which was the original plan) I was thinking - 4 nights in Muerren and 3 in Zermatt before heading to Lake Como (her part of the trip pick). Yes, No? Zermatt seems like a much more interesting place to ME than Lucerne from what I've read here. Plus, we're talking about the freakin' Matterhorn!!! Too much time in Zermatt? I LOVE to see mountains and the upscale shopping will capture my wife's heart. She HATES to pack and unpack alot, which precludes a night or 2 in Lucerne (the original plan). Thus, only 2 packing and unpackings in Switzerland. (I know, pack light - it's Muerren!)

Then, train to Lake Como, next destination -Belvedere Hotel in the prettiest town in Europe (Bellagio) for 4 nights. (too many nights?)

Then, she REALLY wants to see Venice (been there, done that, but she hasn't), so the last 4 nights in Venice.

What do you think? I guess we'd have to fly back to DC from Milan (or does Venice have an airport that's closer)? How long to get from Venice to Milan's airport? Our we giving ourselves enough time?

Thanks in advance. I know that's alot of questions.

Steve
Wash DC

I can help you a little bit with Murren 'cause I was there in June. Your arrival day will be a full day - from the Zurich airport to Murren you have to change trains twice (Interlaken & Lauterbrunnen). The whole trip probably takes 4 hours. I would still go straight to Murren simply because you're going to be tired no matter where you spend the first night; so you might as well be in Murren.

I stayed at the Alpina so I can't help much with your 3 hotel choices. Judging from the exterior the Anfi Palace definitely is the nicest of the three. I did eat lunch at the Alpenruh & it was very good.

Enjoy your vacation!

I get the impression you will be griping about anything you do or see.

In my opinion none of the hotels in Mürren is bad, and the trip from Zürich is easy, with the exception, possibly, of the cable car ride up the hillside.

If the car is full, as it usually is except at night, I predict a freakout by the claustrophobic, and looking down that steep track as you ascend is not for the acrophobic. Just think what would happen if the cable broke or if there was a power failure!

The trip from the Zürich airport to a hotel in Mürren does take almost 4 hours, and the train from Interlaken Ost to Lauterbrunnen is slow. Also you have 3 changes at best.

There is another way up to Mürren. Take the bus from Lauterbrunnen to Stechelberg and change to the Luftseilbahn, which is a stand-up passenger cabin that dangles and sways from a cable, particularly in a breeze. Usually it is packed full of people too. I was up in one of those things when the wind strengthened and the operator stopped the cable line leaving the car hanging halfway between the cable pylons. We dangled there swinging in the breeze for quite a few minutes. The operator gradually inched us down to the pylon and we could have escaped by clibing down the ladder on the pylon had the wind not subsided or had it strengthened even more.

As for Zermatt, the Matterhorn is often shrouded in clouds.
It is not the only show around, but it is spectacular if you can see it.
If you ride to the Klein Matterhorn, you can ride in one of those swaying, cable=dangling little cabins.

Is there a better airport to fly into?
Define better.
As far as international flights are concerned, Zürich is about your only choice in Switzerland. Even if you could fly into Geneve, the trip to Mürren from there is just as long as it is from Zürich.

When you go to Zermatt from Interlaken, you have two choices. You can ride through the Lötschenberg Tunnel from Kandersteg to Goppenstein, or you can rent a car and drive over the Grimsel Pass, which winds and twists steeply over the mountains. The tunnel is not lighted and reeks of diesel fumes. Of course if you are on a train, the lights in the car do come on. I have only gone through it sitting in a rental car loaded onto a train flat car.

It is a fun trip.

Steve -

All your hotel choices in Murren are very nice - the Anfi Palace and the Eiger are ****, whereas the Alpenruh is ***. Anfi Palace and the Eiger (not to be confused with the Eiger Guesthouse, which is a budget place next door to the Eiger Hotel) are larger hotels, and offer more amenities and services.

We always stay at the Alpenruh - the rooms are a bit on the small size, but it's very clean, well maintained and the balcony offers "in your face" mountain views. I believe all the rooms in the Alpenruh have balconies with unobstructed views, so the rooms are very similar, and I don't know if there is a "nicest, highest room" as it's a small hotel.

The Alpenruh is the farthest hotel from the train station, but if you take the cable car from Stechelberg, as Bob mentioned, you're pretty much deposited at the door of the Alpenruh.

The restaurant in the Alpenruh is very good, as is the Schilthorn Taverne, which is located next door in the Schilthorn cable station, and operated by the same company that runs the hotel and the Schilthornbahn.

If you stay at the Alpenruh, you can arrange to have your breakfast at Piz Gloria on top of the Schilthorn if you're so inclined.

As Doug mentioned, it takes about four hours to reach Murren from Zurich, but I agree that you should go directly to Murren unless you plan to spend time in Zurich anyway. We always arrive early after an overnight flight from the Middle East, and we still choose to go directly to Murren. Maybe you can catch some sleep on the train(?)

As far as Zermatt is concerned, I think three nights is just about right. There are some great hikes and mountain excursions in the area. I can recommend a great *** hotel in Zermatt, that might satisfy your wife - it's the Hotel Biner. It's very nice, with large rooms and bathrooms and great views of the Matterhorn from the balcony. Be sure to request an A+ category room if you want a room with balcony and view.

Can't help you with the rest of your trip - never been to those places (yet!)

A few comments: the ride to and through the Lotchberg Tunnel down to Brig (on your way to Zermatt) can be pretty satisfying, especially after you exit the tunnel...if doing this by train be sure to sit on the right-hand side (facing the locomotive) of the train if possible and watch the dramatic Rhone Valley unfold as the rail line descends slowly and dramatically down the rather steep valley wall. You won't be smelling any diesel fumes in the tunnel on the train and the transit is pretty rapid. The ride up the valley from Brig through Visp and on to Zermatt also has its spectacular moments..sit on the left side for that segment...in fact, open the windows and look out a bit (I know it is technically "illegal" but I think it is worth the "risk"...train buff talking here).
Last time I was in Zermatt the hotel proprietor called up and let us know that the view at the top of the Gornergratt was unobstructed so we took the train up through the clouds and the peak of the Matterhorn and Monte Rosa over in Italy were clearly visible...you want real mountain peaks as opposed to those that are "almost as high"....well this is it!
Personally I think two days in Zermatt is enough but if you're into hiking around and so forth and really like being at the "top" of things then 3 days would be even better. Zermatt is, as you probably already know, car-less..all autos must park in the lots in the twon just below and you take the train in from there..som its nice for walking around.
One possible route from Zermatt to Como would be to take the train from Zermatt to Brig, change there for a train to Domodossola (through the Simplon Tunnel) for a train to Bellinzona, change for a train to Lugano, change in Lugano for Colico and then change again for a train to Varenna and the ferry from there to Bellagio...lots of changes and lots of mountain scenery..LOTS of it. The easier and fewer changes route takes you from Brig on to Milan and then a train to Varenna or a train to Como and the hydrofoil or a slower and un-enclosed ferry up to Belllagio.
Of course, you may have opted to travel by road and driving which is less relaxing, I think, but all in all a great trip.
Yes, you can fly out of Venice (you'll probably have to change in Milan but not necessarily so depending on the airline chosen).
I've done all these routes before and I don't think you'll be disappointed and hope you have a great trip.

Steve,

I think you'll do just fine pushing through to Muerren on your first day. I STRONGLY recommend that you purchase "Fly Rail Baggage" tags for your suitcases though - that way you can actually check your luggage all the way through from DC to Muerren!! They cost 15$ a piece and can be purchased through Rail Europe (www.raileurope.com).

While I've never stayed in the Lake District, just whizzed through on the train, I actually think that a journey from Zermatt to Bellagio would be a huge ordeal! "Fastest" route I could come up with would be train to Como via Milan (about 6 hours w/2 changes), then transfer to docks and fast boat to Bellagio (about 1 hour boat ride).

I would strongly consider spending the night in Locarno (about a 4 hour journey), then pursuing to Como/Bellagio the next day (less than 2 hours to Como).

Otherwise, I like your itinerary a lot.

Yes, there is an airport in Venice which would be far more convenient than going all the way back to Milan.

Another option would be to flip your Italian itinerary around and go to Venice (under 7 hours door to door) from Zermatt, then to Bellagio and fly back from Milano Malpensa airport, which is convenient to the Lake District, although you would probably want to stay near the airport on your last night if you have an early flight out.

Here are websites with train and ferry schedules:
www.rail.ch
www.trenitalia.com
www.navigazionelaghi.it

Hope this helps,
Andre

Wow, thank you all!!! Great ideas. I think pushing on to Muerren would be the way to go after our long flight, instead of sleeping in Zurich that 1rst night. I'll try to convince my wife this is the way to go. even though we'll probably have had no sleep.

And, I think I'll scale back our trip to Zermatt to 2 nights instead of 3, maybe picking up a night in Locarno as suggested. This will be a hard sell to her, as she has SO much stuff and bathroom stuff to pack and unpack. I feel you cringing... don't sweat it. It's all good.

I forgot there's an airport out of Venice, much better. About the alternate idea to go to Venice straight from Zermatt then to Lake Como - I'll have to check out that option too, then flying out of Como last. That might work... I'll have to see the schedules for getting out of Bellagio - don't want to have to stay at the airport hotel if we don't have to.

I'll do the search for hotels in Venice and your suggestion for Hotel Biner in Zermatt sounds awesome.

Bob_Brown - I HOPE we're not griping too much, as you suggested. I'll try to take off my Washington DC stressed out cap and enjoy the trip, no matter what frustrations plague us. I'm not expecting perfect hotels and humongous rooms. I've travelled bits of Europe before and never spent more than $65 a night, but that ain't happening with my new wife.

It'll be great.

Steve - Wash DC

Steve,

You're welcome. I reread your post and have the following thoughts:

- Zermatt is great and even though you're spending 3 nights there, you will only have 2 full days as you'll spend a long time getting there from Mürren and travelling onwards to Bellagio/Locarno/Venice. However, don't expect much upscale shopping - it's actually a pretty laid back resort without the "attitude" of say Gstaad, St. Moritz or Crans-sur-Sierre. Sure, you can buy a very expensive watch there but that's about it. Still, I can't imagine your wife won't love it there. Actually, I personally would spend 4 nights in Zermatt and max. 3 in tiny Muerren.

- Do you really have to go to Bellagio? Perhaps you could stay somewhere on Lago Maggiore, like Stresa (right on the way to Venice), Locarno or Lugano. There's pretty good shopping in Lugano, and I'm pretty sure Locarno isn't too shabby either - the 2 towns are quite close anyway.

- Finally, here's yet another option, if you really want to offer your wife upscale shopping: go from Zermatt to Milan (about 4 hours) and overnight there - the Via Montenapoleone and Via Spiga will blow her mind and credit cards. Then on to Venice. End with a few days in Bellagio. This is pretty close to the perfect trip IMO, but it would cost a lot to do it right (nice hotels cost a fortune in Milan, especially midweek).

Hope I'm not confusing you here...

Andre

Oops, obviously Lugano isn't on Lago Maggiore but on Lago di Lugano (but it's close) :)

Andre

We have stayed in Muerren and the Alpenruh rooms are not huge but comfortable, the view fantastic. We had a balcony, rooms in knotty pine, a closed circuit TV which showed you what the weather was like on top and various locations, and a stero with various types of music (classical,etc). We did exchange our breakfast one morning for the Schlithorn revolving restaurant.

We liked it so well we are going back next month!
One caution on number of days. Much of the sights depend on weather. You probably need a full day on each side of the valley. Although you have planned 4 nights, that will really be 3 days for activities. Depending on your other sights that should be fine even if one day the weather does not cooperate.

Thanks Andre and MGB -
Now I'm still kind of confused. Upscale shopping isn't important at all. I should have clarified that. Milan isn't even a possibility on this trip. We really wanted to go to Murren, Bellagio, and Venice, and maybe Zermatt if it was in the cards. If it's too hard to do Zermatt too, we can just blow it off.

So, with that in mind... what to do, and for how long! Isn't Murren worth at least 4 nights? I don't have any ideas anymore. Maybe it's just late! I guess WE just need to pick places and figure out logistics later. I know I don't want to be sitting on trains the whole trip.

Steve

I've been reading very fast to catch up after a week at work, but it seems you're considering a stop over in Locarno or Lugano or Bellagio? All nice places. For what it's worth, I think the arcaded shops and plazas are magnificent in the small city of Lugano. J.

Hi Steve- my wife and I just got back from 2 weeks in Switzerland. We traveled all the way from Seattle to Zurich on Delta. Follow the signs at the airport to the Bahn (train station)and take the train to Interlaken Ost )about 2 hr trip). Switch to the train to Lauterbrunnen- not more than an hour's ride. A five minute walk will take you to the funicular up to Grutschalp (10 minutes). From there it is a 15 minute ride to Murren. You will be exhausted but you can do it I'm sure. No need to overnight in Zurich unless you want to see the city. You will have jet lag no matter what anyway for the first couple of days.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND the Hotel Edelweiss which is a completely refurbished, modernized hotel 5 minutes away from the train station. The hotel sits on the cliff's edge facing the Big Three. The hotel manager, Saundra von Allmen, is very helpful, gracious, and speaks excellent English. The bathroom is huge and bright. Nice comfortable beds with a TV, hairdryer in your room. Breakfast is continental, OK. Their outdoor restaurant has wonderful views. Food prices reasonable. All three hotels have great views. Alpenruh looks small. Anfi Palace looked expensive. Eiger OK. We paid 180 SF per night at the Edelweiss. It was well worth it and we couldn't have been happier with our choice.

If you stay at the Eiger, Anfi Palace, or Edelweiss I would suggest taking the train from Lauterbrunnen up to Grutschalp. If you stay at the Alpenruh then I would take the bus to Stechelberg as the tram station is right next to the hotel.

We stayed 4 days in Murren. Three, perhaps, would have been enough. Personally, I enjoyed Lucerne the most. Grindelwald was beautiful as well. My favorite view was from Mannlichen. Be sure not to miss it. We went to First, Grosse Scheidegg, JungFrau, Wengen, and Schilthorn and for my money the best view was from Mannlichen.

Hope it's not as hot next summer. Have a great trip

Thanks Aneckc!!! We'll check out the Edelweiss. You don't here as much about that one on this web forum. When you say that 3 days was probably more than enough in Murren... was that 4 nights? She doesn't even like to hike, so I guess we'll just do alot of general sightseeing that doesn't involve intense hiking. I'm sure I can get one great hike out her, though!

Do you think we should blow off Zermatt and just do Muerren and Lucerne instead? Then we could chill in Lucerne for the first couple of nights instead of going straight to Murren for that 4 hour ride. By the way, we will not be renting a car anywhere on this trip and will rely on public transport. We NEVER drive in foreign countries. We're wimps ;o)

She doesn't want alot of room changes, so I only get to pick 2 places in Switzerland to "bed down". Then we do her "pick" of the trip - Lake Como (Bellagio) and Venice. That's a total of 4 room changes. Guess we can fly straight out of Venice as some had suggested.

Steve
Wash DC