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-   -   Daytime flights - US East Coast to Paris? (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/daytime-flights-us-east-coast-to-paris-1206873/)

Fishnlines29 Feb 24th, 2017 05:50 PM

Daytime flights - US East Coast to Paris?
 
Do airlines run daytime flights anymore from NY or Philly to Paris? I can't seem to find any online so I'm hoping someone can direct me to an airline that might offer it.
Thanks.

travelchat Feb 24th, 2017 06:06 PM

There's a day time flight from Newark to London but I know of none to Paris. Consider taking that and hop on the Eurostar to Paris? It would be a long day but minus the jet lag.

HappyTrvlr Feb 24th, 2017 06:44 PM

London to Boston in daytime too.

greg Feb 24th, 2017 08:46 PM

What is a "daytime" flight? One that flies without flying through the night?
If you do a simple math, you find near impossibility of such flight.

New York to Paris non-stop flight is more than 7 hours in duration. You can easily find this by looking at the proposed itineraries displayed at most booking sites.

Paris is 6 hours ahead of New York.

Adding together, 6+7=13 hours. This means even if there happens to be a non-stop flight leaving New York at 6 A.M. New York time, the plane arrives in Paris at 7 P.M. Paris time. Right now, sun rises in New York around 6:30 A.M. So, you will be leaving New York before the sunrise. Also, right now, the sunset in Paris is around 6:30 P.M. So, you will be arriving in Paris after sun set.

Until the day gets longer, it is physically not possible to fly New York - Paris without hitting night somewhere on the way.

Also, for business people, this is a colossal waste of time by killing a whole day. Most flights on this route leave New York mid to late evening to allow people to work until departure in New York if it is a weekday and arrive in Paris early in the morning at the beginning of their business day to start work as soon as they get there if it is a workday.

socialworker Feb 24th, 2017 09:09 PM

We did a daytime flight once Boston-London and I had the worst jet lag I've ever had.

michelhuebeli Feb 24th, 2017 09:24 PM

Greg, sorry mate, your math is flawed. For the flights below you'd add one hour for Paris, still doable for dinner and a good night's sleep in a comfortable bed on arrival.

Air Canada flies from YYZ to LHR, lvg 08:40 ar 20:30

UAL flies EWR-LHR lv 08:30 ar 20:30

AA/BA BOS-LHR 08:10 ar LHR 19:30

UAL IAD-LHR 08:35 ar 20:50

Iberia JFK-LHR 08:30 ar 20:15

Iberia JFK-LHR 10:20 ar 22:10

Gardyloo Feb 25th, 2017 05:16 AM

My (sometimes faulty) memory has it that there was once a daytime flight to Paris (I keep thinking United from Dulles) but it didn't last long due to low demand.

A high percentage of transatlantic travel involves domestic connections through an east coast gateway - New York, Washington, etc. - and onward connections in Europe through a major hub - London, Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt etc. An early morning departure from the east coast means connecting passengers have to take red-eyes to be there in time, and onward connections in Europe involve spending the night in London, so two nights are being burned instead of one. East coast - London has enough "origin-destination" (O-D) demand, i.e. people only going from one to the other, not farther, to justify the daytime flights.

<i>Iberia JFK-LHR 08:30 ar 20:15
Iberia JFK-LHR 10:20 ar 22:10</i>

Those are codeshare flight nos. - 8:30 is on BA metal and 10:20 is on AA. AA doesn't fly from Boston to London anymore.

American has a nonstop from Chicago to London, 8:55 AM to 10:40 PM, and Virgin Atlantic also has a daytime JFK-LHR flight.

Sarastro Feb 25th, 2017 05:33 AM

<i>Greg, sorry mate, your math is flawed. For the flights below you'd add one hour for Paris, still doable for dinner </i>


michelhuebeli - I don´t see where Greg´s math is wrong at all. If we add 1 hour time zone change for Paris from London, another 15 to 20 minutes for the additional flight time, add another 90 to 120 minutes for immigration, baggage claim, customs, and and a taxi into Paris, the restaurants will be long past serving times.

Sure there are late night restaurants but it´s hardly practical. And if we assume someone rises in New York for an early departure from from EWR or JFK, flies the 6 hours or so to Paris. are you absolutely sure he will be ready for a good night´s sleep upon arrival?

I am not seeing the logic here.

But the real reason why there are virtually no daytime east bound departures would be explained by the potential financial loss to an airline resulting from the underutilization of their capital equipment or aircraft. Aircraft are assets that represent a lot of investment and these assets only make money when they are airborne.

If an aircraft arrives at a European airport late in the evening, by the time it would be ready to return westbound, it would be 1 or 2 in the morning. There would be no inbound flights to feed the following transatlantic departure and very few local passengers. The equipment would very likely set dormant and unproductive until the next morning.

Scheduling eastbound departures in the late afternoon and turning them for westbound departures the next morning keeps aircraft utilized and keeps the airline´s capital assets productive, a lot more productive than implementing any other scheduling scenario.

kerouac Feb 25th, 2017 05:33 AM

The only daytime return to Paris was by Concorde and that ended in 2003.

Nikki Feb 25th, 2017 05:50 AM

Maybe I am hallucinating but I remember a daytime flight from Boston to Paris some years ago, maybe on American. Or maybe it was just to London, not Paris.

I much, much prefer daytime flights, I can deal with the time change much better. Spending a night on a redeye is extremely unpleasant for me, and I can almost never sleep. But these days it appears to be the only way to get from here to there.

flanneruk Feb 25th, 2017 06:28 AM

"I am not seeing the logic here"

Possibly not.

But BA, Virgin, United, American and Air Canada have no problem seeing the commercial logic in daytime eastbound transatlantic flights to London (precisely the same flight time as Paris) from North America's east coast.

And those of us who use them have no difficulty seeing the benefit to passengers. You can work throughout the flight, go to bed and go straight to work (or start having fun), for most of us unjetlagged, the following morning.

rialtogrl Feb 25th, 2017 06:40 AM

I have friends in DC that take the daytime flight to London, spend a couple of days in London, then move on to wherever else they are going. They love it.

Thanks Michel for the list. I can't sleep on planes either, I would like to try this method.

Sarastro Feb 25th, 2017 07:04 AM

<i>But BA, Virgin, United, American and Air Canada have no problem seeing the commercial logic in daytime eastbound transatlantic flights to London (precisely </i>

Each company may have a departure or two but once the aircraft arrive in LHR it sits there, particularly those of US air carriers. These may be scheduled for recurring maintenance during the downtime and continue scheduled westbound flights the following morning.

I think that it would be a mistake to believe that there will be any large scale deployment of aircraft on daytime eastbound flights.

kmowatt Feb 25th, 2017 07:10 AM

Air Canada runs DAILY daytime flights to LHR and has for at least 10 years or more. I take this flight all the time and it is great for cutting jet lag. I agree that you "miss" out on a day and have to pay for another night accommodation but I think it's worth it. I have not seen any daytime service to Paris from Toronto though.

HappyTrvlr Feb 25th, 2017 07:20 AM

I We love daytime flights, leave US around 7:40am, arrive London 7:40 pm. Dinner and to bed. No jet lag on these flights for us. Also, we can fly Premium Economy both ways instead of Bus Class going over at night.

janisj Feb 25th, 2017 07:32 AM

greg is beyond wrong.

What is called a 'daytime flight' is one that takes off and lands on the same calendar date and there are several 'daytime' flights in to London from the eastern US/Canada.

MANY people (<i>including</i> business people) prefer the daytime flights which seem to make jet lag much more manageable. It is usually difficult to get on one because they tend to book up far in advance. Being on the west coast I am jealous of those on the east coast who can take day flights because ALL of our flights are obviously red eyes/overnight.

Of COURSE there are daytime frights to London, but not Paris AFAIK.

Fishnlines29 Feb 25th, 2017 07:36 AM

greg, yes that's exactly what I meant - NOT overnight, I wasn't focusing on when the sun rises and sets.

I have traveled to Europe on overnight flights and I am ALWAYS miserable. I would much prefer leaving on an early flight even if that gets me in at 8pm or whatever, I can go straight to bed and be refreshed in the morning.

Thank you for all those responding - it sounds like I'm not missing any airlines that might fly direct to Paris, oh well.

What do you all think of TravelChat's idea of direct to London, Eurostar to Paris? Maybe a bit too much? I might prefer the overnight to this option, but not sure.

Or as I'm thinking this through and reading rialtogrl's post, I could fly direct to London, spend the night there, meet with friends for breakfast before taking the train to Paris. Hmm, I have to put some thought into that idea!

janisj Feb 25th, 2017 07:41 AM

>>What do you all think of TravelChat's idea of direct to London, Eurostar to Paris? <<

Not really doable. You would land at LHR between 8 and 10 PM-ish and by the time you cleared Immigration and made it to St Pancras it would be too late for a Eurostar.

You could possibly book a late evening flight from LHR to CDG - but if your incoming flight was delayed you'd be out of luck.

Basically you'd have to book a night either at LHR or in Central London and travel on to Paris the next morning.

Fishnlines29 Feb 25th, 2017 07:42 AM

Yea, that might be the best option janisj. I could potentially spend the night in London and take the train the next day. Or just suck it up and do the overnight flight.

janisj Feb 25th, 2017 07:54 AM

Depends on if you want any time in London, and party on your budget. Often the daytime flights are costlier because they book up earlier.

. . . and on how badly an overnight flight affects you.

janisj Feb 25th, 2017 07:54 AM

>> . . . and partly on your budget<<

Gardyloo Feb 25th, 2017 07:55 AM

You could stay overnight at Heathrow; get a Priceline hotel room (I've never paid more than $100 for a 4-star near the airport) and catch a morning flight to Paris.

A one-way flight from LHR to CDG on Air France is £49, and flying on a separate ticket wouldn't be an issue because you'd be spending the night in the UK, so no worries about misconnecting.

I also love the daytime flights; it reduces jetlag by a whole bunch.

Fishnlines29 Feb 25th, 2017 08:07 AM

Oh thanks Gardyloo, that's another thought we will consider.

We just decided we are definitely not going to do the flight/train route.

janisj Feb 25th, 2017 08:10 AM

>>We just decided we are definitely not going to do the flight/train route.<<

If so - then I'd get a hotel either right near St Pancras/Kings Cross (or at least along the Piccadilly tube line so you'd have easy access to the Eurostar in the AM. You want to book Eurostar as far ahead as you can. The fares only go up the nearer the date.

Fishnlines29 Feb 25th, 2017 08:12 AM

janisj, not we're NOT going to take Eurostar, that's just too much. I think we will just do the overnight and suck it up or possibly consider Gardyloo's suggestion, but likely the former.

But do you have any suggestions as to most comfortable airlines to do an overnight flight?

Dukey1 Feb 25th, 2017 10:59 AM

reviving this. Am I correct in assuming you are not planning to pay for a flatbed seat on a plane? If not then are you willing to consider so-called "premium" economy?

janisj Feb 25th, 2017 11:09 AM

>>janisj, not we're NOT going to take Eurostar<<

Oh - I totally mis-read your earlier post. Sorry. Guess I read it as >>We just decided we are definitely <strike>not</strike> going to do the flight/train route<< :)

No airline is comfortable in coach, most are semi-comfortable in Economy Plus or whatever each airline calls it, and all are pretty comfortable in Business.

rialtogrl Feb 25th, 2017 12:03 PM

-Or as I'm thinking this through and reading rialtogrl's post, I could fly direct to London, spend the night there, meet with friends for breakfast before taking the train to Paris. Hmm, I have to put some thought into that idea!-

I have not done the day flight (yet) but I do like to stop in London after an overnight flight. I fly British Airways non stop, the flight leaves at night, I arrive in London in the afternoon. I usually get a room in the city for a couple of nights, sometimes I even leave my luggage at the airport if I am flying out of Heathrow. It really helps with the jet lag.

amyb Feb 25th, 2017 12:16 PM

I'm with socialworker, the one time I flew on the day flight from Boston to London (arriving in time to go to bed, despite the fact that I'd just gotten up before my flight) it was the worst jetlag I ever had. I just never bounced back the entire week.

I have flown Lufthansa, Delta and American Economy Plus to Europe (where you pay ~$100 or so each leg for 4 more inches of legroom and priority boarding) and it was quite comfortable. I'm 5'10" and wasn't bothered at all.

tuscanlifeedit Feb 25th, 2017 01:36 PM

We just flew Delta economy comfort to ATL>LHR and I found it to be barely worth the extra $75.00. The seat was uncomfortable. My husband was glad to have the knee room, but that was about it.

The wanted us to take the exit rows, but knowing the seat didn't recline, I said no.

Which reminds me, I suggest reading about all the seat options on seatguru.com

Sarastro Feb 25th, 2017 03:24 PM

<i>The wanted us to take the exit rows, but knowing the seat didn't recline, I said no. </i>

It´s not the exit row seats that will not decline, it is the row of seats immediately forward of the exit. These seats do not recline because in a reclined position, they can narrow the passageway to the emergency exits.

Dukey1 Feb 25th, 2017 04:36 PM

Good luck with this, folks. Why is it that those airlines continue to offer this option despite "the worst jetlag ever?"

socialworker Feb 25th, 2017 04:54 PM

That is exactly what happened to me, amy. The whole time in London, I was so out of it--and this was back in '98 when I was a lot younger! We went to the theater several times that week and as soon as they would turn out the lights I could not keep my eyes open. I slept thru much of Phantom of the Opera. I truly felt as if I had been drugged.

HappyTrvlr Feb 25th, 2017 07:59 PM

Everyone is different but neither my husband nor I have the regular jet lag we get on overnight flights when we take daytime flights. None at all. We have taken four or five of them and just booked another one for this summer.

janisj Feb 25th, 2017 10:47 PM

>>Why is it that those airlines continue to offer this option despite "the worst jetlag ever?"<<

Because it seems the majority of people have <i>less</i> jetlag with a daytime flight -- you get into London and to your hotel just about bed time local time. So for many people there is less adjusting to do.

But not everyone reacts the same way. Heck -- some people sleep just fine on an overnight flight.

Me -- I can doze in Business but in coach it is pretty much wide awake the whole time. So for me the day time flight is great (unfortunately I've only ever been able to take one, when I had a meeting in Boston just before I was traveling to the UK)

socialworker Feb 26th, 2017 10:14 AM

Absolutely, not only is everyone different, but for me, at least, every trip is a bit different.

Jet lag is generally less bothersome in months when days are long (w/that one daytime flt being a huge exception). When we went to Paris one time in cold weather w/shortish days, I found myself wanting to curl up in my merino wool cape and nap on top of the bed every afternoon. Of course that was a business trip for DH and being on my own during the day helped fuel the urge to nap.

kerouac Feb 26th, 2017 11:00 AM

I have my worst jetleg westbound anywhere in the world, when apparently it is the opposite for most other people. The time of the flight makes no difference to me. I remember one flight from olden times when I flew on Japan Airlines from Cairns to Tokyo to Anchorage to London to Paris, and we had two complete nights and no day. Now <b>that</b> was pretty horrible.

Fishnlines29 Feb 27th, 2017 07:03 AM

That's correct, I didn't want to pay for business class, but I like everyone's ideas about buying up to a seat with extra legroom - and make sure the seat reclines a little.

CarolA Feb 27th, 2017 07:44 AM

I have friends who only fly this way. And they claim it causes no jetlag. So perhaps the assumption that what happened to one person will happen to another is wrong? LOL!

pavot Feb 27th, 2017 07:49 AM

I've always thought that the real problem when flying to Europe from the US is sleep deprivation, not jetlag.

Westbound (depending on how long I have been away), the jetlag is much worse for me.

Not looking forward to this summer's steerage flight on British Airways....


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