Suebaroo

My husband and I will be travelling through Europe for three weeks in October and have allocated 8 days to spend in France - looking at the map I am completely overwhelmed by all the options and could really use some advice on where to go.

We will have a car and will be travelling in from Bruges, and after the 8 days in France need to head to Zurich. I have been to Paris before so happy to just spend a very short time there (possibly even a day trip) as my husband is keen to see the Louvre.

We are in our early 30s and in terms of travel interests, I love food, wine and markets etc and my husband loves the outdoors, cycling (he is keen to cycle Alpe d'Huez) . We both love off the beaten track destinations and are quite happy to stay out of the big cities and focus on quirky, beautiful towns and villages.

Any recommendations of great little towns for us to stay in? And any specific accommodation - very keen on slf catering, chambres d'hôtes type stays!

PalenQ

Well if you want to sidestep Paris head from Belgium to Reims, the capital of Champagne - neat old Champagne Houses that are as marvelous as the bubbly in their caves, which you can tour and then taste the product and buy right from the source.

With a car I'd derive along the Marne River thru Champagne, dotted by numerous tiny wine villages with smaller and less pretentious wine houses but a nice meandering riverside road (rent a bike here and bike over it!)

From Reims head to Burgundy, stopping perhaps in Vezelay (UNESCO World Heritage site and once one of the world's most thriving medieval pilgrimage sites - until the venerated local relic housed in the world-famous basilica that still stands was exp[osed as a fake and the pilgrim torrent dried up to a trickle and the town slumbered along, becoming practically a ghost town - great because it all was left in its pristine medieval condition.

Nearby Auxerre gets rave reviews as a cute old city to stay in - then head to the heart of Burgundy - Beaune and base there for a few days - drive or rent a bike to meander along the Route des vins de bourgogne (sp?) - a small road meandering thru the heart of Burgundy's famed wine district - again world-famous names on wine bottles at least grace the road every few kilometres.

Then head to the Alps and Alp d'HUez - stay a few days and then head via Chamonix into Switzerland - driving one of the most scenic alpine roads in Europe - from Chamonix to Martigny, Switzerland - a short drive from Zurich - perhaps stop in Lucerne or the wondrous Interlaken-Jungfrau region en route.

Well there is one suggestion and you can easily day trip by train in 45 minutes from Reims into Paris for the day to see the Louvre (closed on Tuesdays I think but not sure).

maryanntex

A friend and I just returned from Paris. We went to Reims for a day to visit two champagne houses (Taittinger and Lanson--you need reservations for Lanson) and see the cathedral. I'd definitely recommend it. We did this at the suggestion of a friend who is a wine expert and leads tour groups in France. I'm copying here an excerpt from his email to me:
The easiest wine-related day trip from Paris is to Champagne, which is less than an hour away by fast TGV train. The Champagne houses are large and well-equipped for visitors, and the visits are impressive. Some of the interesting Champagne houses like Moet et Chandon are in the town of Epernay, but the train goes to Reims, so it makes more sense to visit the firms that are in Reims if you don’t have a car. The cathedral in Reims is large and quite historic, worthy of a visit. After you do the cathedral and a Champagne house or two, the only other attraction that I find compelling is the Musée de la Reddition, which was Eisenhower’s HQ at the end of WWII, and it’s where the Germans surrendered to Eisenhower. In terms of choosing which Champagne tour(s) to try in Reims, the splashiest promotion that lures a lot of people is to Pommery, but I would skip that one – it’s very commercialized. Ruinart is a good tour – it’s the oldest one. Taittinger is good. And visiting Lanson can be special – it’s smaller, and on many days you can go into the production areas and watch the bottling machinery operating up close, which very few houses let you see. However the production side is not open to visits every day, so it pays to check with them for the day you want to go. You could combine a Champagne trip with a visit to the World War I battle sites near Verdun about 70 miles east of Reims. You’d need a car to get there, though. The history of trench warfare is grim but interesting.

StuDudley

We've spent over 3 years exploring most corners in France - but never in October - except for Paris and Provence. Weather in the Alps might be a little "iffy" in mid-October. Plus, If I had to "do" one of the famous TdF "climbs", it probably wouldn't be Alpe d'Huez (not that scenic - all switchbacks, plus chance of bad weather). I'd probably choose Mt Ventoux in October.

You didn't mention much about your total itinerary for this 3 week trip, but between Bruges, Paris, Alps, and Zurich - that seems like a lot of time in the car. Depending on whether you are driving your own personal car, or where you pick up the car if it is a rental - you might have some drop-off fees.

Consider this:

- take the train from Bruges to Paris. There is a train that leaves at 9:00 & arrives in Paris at 11:40 (1 train change)

- spend 2-3 nights in Paris

- take one of the many 2 3/4 hr TGVs from Paris to the Avignon TGV station in Provence, rent a car, and stay in Bedoin (base village for Mt Ventoux). Les Pins hotel is somewhat of a bicyclist's hotel - with a very good restaurant.

Hubby climbs Mt Ventoux. There are at least 3 excellent bike rental shops in Bedoin (let my know if you want info on what my cousin thinks is the best one). Excellent Monday morning farmer's market in Bedoin. Lots of cafes also (we've stayed there for 8 weeks)

Explore Provence

- Take the 8:51 train from the Avignon TGV station to Zurich, which arrives at 2:26 - 1 train change.

Stu Dudley

annhig

Suebaroo - I love Pal's idea. it's a great itinerary.

only one problem - IMO you need twice the time you've got to do it justice. in 8 days, you really only have time to stay in 2 places.

I suggest that you go to google maps, put in a route from Bruges to Zurich and see where there is on the way. I did that, and one of the obvious places en route is Strasbourg. no reason why you shouldn't go to Reims on the way too.

to add Alpe D'huez into the mix, you'd have to go from Bruges - Reims - Dijon - Lyons - Grenoble - Zurich. Not undoable, but you almost double the distance.

Depends how much driving you want to do, really.

PalenQ

annhig - I have a tendency to think in American terms where driving long distances each day is a given for many - but I agree - take the Alps out of it and it would be finer I think - go from Beaune to Geneva and Zurich. Actually I forgot how far south Alpez d'Huez was!

Alps in October can be very dreary indeed.

annhig

i agree, Pal - in October, it could be dreary indeed.

or gorgeous. who can tell?

a case for travelling on the fly, I think.

bilboburgler

PQ's trip looks very good. I might also drop in Chablis (just over the hill from Auxerre) though Auxerre is the main drawer.

PalenQ

Alesia is also on the way from Vezelay to Burgundy - this is an amazing old ruined ancient city that was the site of a famous battle from Roman days - evocative ruins remain in a stark wild setting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia

https://www.google.com/search?q=ales...=1600&bih=1075

So for a nice one hour or so stop en route to Burgundy consider Alesia - allegedly but not certain it seems the site of an ancient battle where the Romans subdued the Gauls.

Suebaroo

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to make these wonderful suggestions. You have all really made me start to think about this trip a little differently... And with much mor clarity!

1. I think we are going to scrap Paris from the itinerary completely. Since we are so pressed for time, it doesn't make sense to rush through the city.

2. We aren't too afraid of a fair amount of time in the car, but having said that I would rather we chose two to three bases, and then take day trips out to surrounding attractions. We will have the car for the while three weeks, picking it up upon arrival in Zurich and dropping it off there at the end to avoid the scary drop off fee.

3. Hubby seems to be surprisingly negotiable on Alpe d'Huez, and StuDudley. I think your suggestion of Mt Ventoux is an excellent one as its still very TdF, but we can save ourselves the trek out to the Alps, and plenty other attractions in the area for us both to enjoy. That bike rental shop suggestion will be much appreciated!

4. Do you think 2 nights Reims, 2 nights Beaune, and 4 nights Provence maybe would be reasonable?

Oaktown9

Your trip looks great with your modifications.
I too am a 2 night girl. I think with two drivers you can do this and have a good time.

StuDudley, if you get a chance van you weigh in on my proposed journey? I like your level of detail.

Cheers,
Oaktown Traveler

Oaktown9

that is can not van.

StuDudley

This is the site for the shop my cousin (avid bicyclist) liked the most. Their web site has changed, and I hope their store is still in the same location. The store is actually on the route to Mt Ventoux just a few meter (maybe 50) past the "start" of the official climb to Mt Ventoux in Bedoin (the start is well market - just opposite the tourist office).
http://www.velofrancelocations.fr/


There are other shops in Bedoin. One is actually associated with a pizza place (where we've ordered pizza for the gite several times). It is called MVt Cycle Shop & the pizza place is Pizzeria Chez Pierre.
http://www.bedoin-location.fr/fr/accueil.htm

Watch out for the morning traffic commute in Bedoin - bicyclist setting out for the climb up Ventoux. And there is the evening commute also - bicyclists returning & having a beer at one of the many cafes. Both quite a spectacle.

Your itinerary seems fine.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

Oaktown

We returned from 5 weeks in France on July 14, so I really wasn't available to participate in most of your thread. When I finally saw it, there was already more than 20 "suggestions", and I usually don't jump in to add my 2 cents worth with that many people already responding. I'll give it a "look/see".

Stu Dudley

Oaktown9

Thanks StuDudley!

Take fresh eyes to it. I like your style!
The itinerary has been modified. It is more down thread.

Suebaroo:

Where are you thinking of staying in Provence?

Cheers,
Oaktown Traveler

Suebaroo

Hi Oaktown

I think we are going to base ourselves in L'isle sur la Sorgue, looks close enough to Bedoin for hubby to get to Mt Ventoux easily and also near enough to good food and wine to keep me happy.

I've actually made some fairly substantial modifications to the trip plan after chatting to a few friends and giving it more thought. We've managed to reshuffle things so that we have an extra two days in France, so 10 in total.... This is the full three week itinerary including the rest of Europe.

Hamburg - 4 days
Amsterdam - 1 day
Bruges - 2 days
Paris - 2 days
Beaune - 2 days
L'isle sur la Sorgue - 4 days
Annecy - 2 days
Zurich - 3 days

StuDudley

For the last week or so in October, don't make any plans you can't cancel for Annecy (assuming you won't want to be there in early winter). If you are from the US - what are the Canadian Rockies like in late October?

Stu Dudley

Suebaroo

Hi Stu, we are from South Africa so the wintery conditions could be a novelty for us. We're not too worried about the cold but rain could be quite bleak!

Improviser

"Hamburg - 4 days
Amsterdam - 1 day
Bruges - 2 days
Paris - 2 days
Beaune - 2 days
L'isle sur la Sorgue - 4 days
Annecy - 2 days
Zurich - 3 days"

Where is the travel time between places accounted for? For example, when will you leave Bruges, on day 7 or day 8 of your trip? If it is day 7 then you will not have 2 days in Bruges. If it is day 8 then you will not have 2 days in Paris.

Each time you move you lose a day more or less. If you move (as your list shows and does not seem to show how you will rent and return the car to Zurich as you state)7 times in 21 days and also deduct your arrival and departure date if they are included in your 21 days then it would appear you will only actually spend 12 days out of 21 IN places.

Personally, spending more than 50% of my time moving is not what I would call best use of time. With 21 days I would not plan to visit more than a maximum of 5 and preferably only 4 (allows for a day trip or two) places in that amount of time.

Rather than concentrating on what about this place or that place I think it is time for a look at the forest rather than the trees.

annhig

I'm with improviser here. It's hardly worth going to Amsterdam for a day and where are you going to park the car there and in Paris?

According to googlemaps it's in excess of 1500 kms - hardly a holiday - and in what could be bad weather.


honestly, I would rethink your rethink.

[dare I ask why Hamburg?]