Castel Gandolfo is pleasant and the lake is popular in summer, but the Colli Albani towns would have less appeal in winter, I think. JMPO ...

Steve

I'm leaning more and more towards Orvieto as it seems to be just the right size for a day trip, and the transport is easy too.

as we are gonig to the rugby match on Sunday, we'll have to go on the saturday as the underground tour is only open on Sat & Sunday in February, according to the website:

http://www.orvietounderground.it/ind...d=13&Itemid=45

it's open all week the rest of the year.

I am high on Orvieto as well - one of the most interesting and lovely hill towns i've seen - plus the allure of the underground tours. From the train station a funicular takes you right up to the old town crowning this volcanic pile. And these are mainly regional trains - dirt cheap like to Frascati and one ticket is valid on any regional train - no advance planning like on reservations-obliged trains other than regional trains. That said there is the odd IC train going to Orvieto so avoid those - marginally faster because they don't stop enough. Just buy an open-ended return ticket from Rome the automatic ticketing machines in Italian stations are so easy to use - the anti-Trenitalia.com really - even an idiot like me could use them to avoid a typically long wait in line at manual ticket windows in Termini - and trains to Orvieto also leave from the much more manageable Rome Tiburtina station.

thanks for the tip about the trains and the stations pal, especially as we are staying near the piazza navona so Tiburtina may be more convenient for us than Termini.

Pza Navona is closer to Termini but if taking the Metro then i think it may be as convenient to get to Tiburtina and it seems there are more trains to Orvieto from Tiburtina, direct trains, than from Termini - seems many of the links from Termini have you changing in Tiburtina so better perhaps to go by taxi or metro there than hectic Termini - but Tiburtina station is nowhere near the Tiber but on the far east side of central Rome.

Cheers

The above post is wrong on several counts. There are more trains from Termini to Orvieto than from Tiburtina; none requires a change. You can't take the Metro from Piazza Navona to anywhere; there is no Metro stop in the historic center.

Besides, Tiburtina is a grungy station in a grungy part of town.

Zerlina is correct but i was sloppy in explaining that i was talking only about R or regional trains which you can just hop on - all R trains from Termini seem to stop also at Tiburtina and it seems on some you change there - but yes if you want to pay more and hassle with obligatory reservations coming and going then those IC trains do not typically even stop at Tiburtina but go direct from Termini, stopping at Orte only mainly before Orvieto. So it depends on the type of train and i was amiss in saying i was only talking here about regional trains. The problem with dealing with advance reservations with IC trains is that you do not know really how long you may want to spend in Orvieto once there so if you book a return at say 4pm it may be too early but if you book at 6pm you may be wanting to go back earlier. And though i believe you can change IC reservations, possible at a small fee, it means standing in line at ticket windows probably to do so. Regional trains are cheaper and much more convenient i think for the tourist who may not know what train they will leave on or return on. But Zerlina is spot on on what he/she says and i stand corrected.

Andi have taken many a train from Tiburtina and would always rather deal with a much smaller station that Termini, what with its dozens and dozens of platforms, pickpockets, etc.

from which exchange I gather that a bit more investigation is required.

if we bought return IC tickets but changed our plans, do i understand that we can't use them on the regional trains?

could we book an IC train there and take our chances coming back? we're much more of the "turn up and see what happens type of travellers" when it comes to this sort of thing, though booking ahead is far more likely to mean that we do the trip rather than just mooch around all day.

nothing wrong with mooching of course.

I'm sure Zerlina is more up to date on that and i never really thought of whether you could use an IC train ticket on a regional train but come to think of it why not - IC train tickets cost more than regional trains so why could you not - why would Trenitalia care - but i have no idea - i suspect Zerlina will. And IME in booking IC+ trains with a railpass (the reservation requirement on the IC trains is fairly new and i reference GAC and others for that) and i never had a problem booking right before the train an IC+ and previously just hopped on IC trains, which never seemed to be really crowded in either class. I would be confident in being able to make a booking on a return IC train with the only caveat leve some time for lines at ticket windows, if you cannot do it in the automatic ticketing machines. I believe IC tickets are good on any IC train but you must of course change the mandatory seat reservations and there could be a fee for that - i do not know as the IC mandated booking is fairly new. But others like GAC, Zerlinga and Kybourbon should - i would just go to the manual ticketing windows in Rome and ask that question - most clerks speak some English IME - enough to convey that. I will be interested in the answer to your quandry. I do not think there is any fare break a la Britain in getting a return ticket so you could just buy whenever you feel you want to return to Rome and you can always hop on regional trains after buying a regional train ticket. IC trains are more comfy than regional ones, which are more like typical austere commuter trains IME - plusher seats, etc.

There is no reason to book a return trip; it costs the same as two one-ways. There's also no reason to buy the tickets at Termini; any travel agency showing the Trenitalia logo is supposed to sell you tickets without adding a fee or commission.

For the return, you can buy reserved seats on IC trains up until (I think) 10 minutes before departure and unreserved seats on Regionale trains until just before departure. Trains are almost never sold out.

Can you use an IC ticket on a regional train, if you know?

thanks

thanks Pal and Zerlina - it's not simple is it?

buying the tickets from a travel agency will give me a chance to pratice my italian, won't it?

If you know when you want to go and if you are taking the Leonardo Express train in from the airport then you can buy the tickets at the airport train station or from a seemingly private travel agency right by the airport train station ticketing counter (last i was there two years ago).

But i think it's a great tip that you can buy at any travel agent with Trenitalia logo as this would be most convenient i think and you could ask them the details of conditions of carriage.

you could ask them the details of conditions of carriage.>>

mmmm - not sure my GCSE italian would be up to that - i could probably manage the question, but I'm pretty sure the answer would elude me. but i could have fun trying.

'could we book an IC train there and take our chances coming back?'

Yes - of course. An IC ticket is valid on Regional trains.

Personally I'd do both ways on the regional trains. Only 10 mins difference journey time - and it's hal;df the price.

You don't need seat reservations on this route. Contrary to what Pal says, you do NOT have to change train at Tiburtina. ALL trains to Orvieto leave from Termini.

Steve

>>>Yes - of course. An IC ticket is valid on Regional trains.<<<

Perhaps before seats were mandatory, but Trenitalia seems to state otherwise. Maybe GAC has some better links, but Trenitalia is in the process of updating so I'm not sure what might change.

Regional tickets bought on this site and printed from one's own computer are valid for 4 hours from validation.
Tickets bought with place reservation at the same time (ES*, IC Plus, WL, couchettes etc.) are instead valid for the day and train booked on. Booking changes are allowed according to the formalities of the type of ticket.

Read fare corrections, booking changes, etc.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD

>>>thanks Pal and Zerlina - it's not simple is it?<<<

Yes, it is simple. No reason not to buy the ticket at Termini right before you travel. There are rows of ticket machines (touch screen) and you won't have to wait. Just pay attention to whether you want to use a machine that takes credit cards or just cash (they are clearly marked). The first half of this video is of the old ticket machines (which you would likely encounter at Orvieto, but they also have a ticket window that isn't busy) and the second half of the newer touch screen.
http://www.webvisionitaly.com/search.php?act=&&pos_=7#

If you plan to stay late in Orvieto (last train back to Rome is about 11:30pm), keep in mind that the funicular from the town down to the station quits running about 8:30 pm. There are other means down so you aren't totally stuck, but need to allow time if you want a specific train.

so the simplest solution is to buy a return for the regional trains at Termini.

right? or wrong?

kybourbon - i think that we'd be likely to want to get back to Rome before 11.30 pm, but thanks for your tip about the funicular and the ticket machines.

grazie.

Ann - Yes, right :) Couldn't be easier ;)

NB. Just remember to 'validate' your ticket in the yellow ticket machine before boarding. Same for the return journey ...

Outward 'R' (- regional) trains leave Roma Termini at 09.05 or 11.05.

Return trains leave Orvieto at 15.42, 17.42 or 19.42

Round-trip fare (2nd cl): &euro;14.20

Steve

<<NB. Just remember to 'validate' your ticket in the yellow ticket machine before boarding. Same for the return journey ...>>

lol, steve, just what we didn't do on our return trip to Pisa after our week in Florence two years ago. the conductor was NOT sympathetic; luckily he "only" fined us €5 each. it's an expensive but effective way to learn that lesson.