daughter traveling thru Europe
 

My daughter who is 17 is planning on traveling thru Europe this summer. She will be traveling with her friend who is 18. They will fly from the US and visit: Brussels, Paris, Barcelona, Madrid, Dublin and London in a 30 day period. They will stay with friends at some locations but will also be staying at hostels at other places.

I am concerned about her ability to move thru the different countries, lodgings and overall cost of this venture.

Anyone have any good advice

Do you mean will she be allowed to do this - or you are not comfortable with her being able to pull this off?

What travel has she done in the past? Ever been to europe or any big cities in the US? Ever spend any time alone or with friends there? Is she responsible with money and good at managing her own? Is she mature and sensible generally?

If it were me I would not have any concerns about daughter - but mine traveled quite a bit. 19 year old DD went to europe with 2 friends for 6 weeks and it was fine - but she had traveled to europe before and was mature and self sufficient.

I would be more concerned about the budget. Has you D given you a plan for the trip with the costs worked out? Is she expecting you to pay for everything or will she be paying part? (My D paid her own way.)

What is their budget at the moment? For a 30 days trip she will need to cover airfare - about $1K - and for 30 days even at a budget/student level she will need at least $3k additional (And this is hostels, picnic lunches, no shopping and student only nightlife - as well as budget trains bought far in advance and perhaps limited sightseeing - some sights can run $25 each.)

Hi pickled, welcome to Fodors.

I'm going to assume your daughter is American/Canadian/Australian or generally has ease of access to the EU.

Moving through the countries; very easy she needs to use local cheepo airlines and local trains, skyscanner gives you an idea of the former and seat61 will explain the latter. Generally booking a longer trip will always be cheaper than walking up to the door (but you never know)

Lodgings; this summer is a wide target, again booking now will get better prices in hostels

Overall costs; it depends. If you want a rough budget try playing with £55, E75 for nights hostel stop with some sort of breakfast. Lunch anything from £6-£15 and E8 to E15 with maybe evening meal edging up on those prices. Flights booked early say £60 E70, trains vary a lot more by country but similar figures give you a start. Spending money no idea, it depends on what you do. The less you move the less you pay on transport and the less you stay with friends the more it costs you.

With a friend; can be great can end in a row. Only one way to find out.

Is her friend male or female?

Are you concerned that at age 17 she might come under questioning at borders or with airlines?

looking at those meal targets they are generous, survival including the odd ice cream can be done for much less.

At 17, she should be fully able to plan such a trip pretty much on her own, including how to get around, where to stay, and how much to budget. I trust they have guidebooks and maps and know how to research on the internet, right? Just as a very elementary example, every one of those cities (and pretty much every town and village in Europe) has its own official website with every conceivable kind of information for visitors.

I really don't think a lot of 17 year olds should be able to plan major trips to Europe with lodgings, public transportation, etc if they have never done much traveling and maybe haven't ever been on their own nor perhaps ever taken a train. A lot of 40 year olds couldn't do that, frankly (I know some 65 year olds who couldn't). I don't think this is so trivial at all.

But at least she won't be alone, so that's good. I do wonder what that major concern is, so elaborate about that. A lot of people are total ditzes about money, also, at all ages, but if the concern is just the overall cost about that, I wonder what the estimates are. Some people do have very unrealistic ideas about how much these things cost.

Hello, and welcome to Fodor's.

Is this plan definite, or are you struggling with giving your daughter permission to take this trip--assuming she is a minor and requires parental permission? If the latter, I am not sure this is the correct forum, although I'm happy to try to be of assistance.

If your daughter is an adult, then I doubt you can stop her, other than to decline to fund her, should she not be paying for this trip herself.

If this plan is happening, are you needing information about travel planning, a budget, point-to-point directions, recommendations for lodgings, et cetera, on your daughter's behalf? If yes, while that is information people here can help with, let me gently suggest that perhaps your daughter should be doing the research and making the arrangements. If she can't or won't sort out a passport and flights and transit, as well as access to funds, a mobile, and so forth, then she probably should defer this trip until she is willing/able to do the planning.

Perhaps a bit more information, please, will help those here, to help you, better.

Hostel world.com

Some of you Fodor's posters sound pretty naive about the current state of play regarding 17 year old females transiting borders in Europe. (Also, it would be nice if there could be one thread about young females traveling on Fodor's that wasn't about slap down from the usual crowd with hostile attitudes toward young women and the aggravated, bitter tone about "how they ought to be."

Anwyay, that's probably naive of me to think the harpies won't fly in, but at a minumum, the OPs post is not clear about what the issues are, so maybe people could wait for clarification before getting snooty about maturity and parenting issues, etc.

We'd need to better understand what Mom's concerns are to answer this inquiry. What she means by "ability to move through countries"? Are we talking is it legal? Is she mature enough to figure it out? Does she have sufficient funds? Something more to understand what exactly is the concern.

I am concerned about her ability to move thru the different countries, lodgings and overall cost of this venture.>

Well trains for a wide-ranging itinerary are the only way to go IMO - and since they are under 25 they can buy the bargain EurailYouthPass which in most countries lets them just hop on any train anytime - for lots about the rail portion (mixing in a cheap flight maybe for longer distances) check www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.seat61.com.

Trains are modern, safe for everybody IME and fast and frequent - there are overnight trains too they can get a private compartment on - save on a night's accommodation cost and travel time.

Hostelworld.com is a great source for them to plan where they can find lodging. They can book now and will know how much it will cost for accommodation. They always have a kitchen so they can pack lunches or cook there to save money. Many offer discounts on day tours for their guest. The Eurailyouthpass Pal talks about is also good. My cousins just did a three month trip with hostels and couchsurfing. I would want to make sure you had the ability to put funds into her account while traveling.

In Switzerland, one must be 18 to drink hard alcohol. Beer and wine is allowed at 16. Does that help?

Even with a youth pass, in most European countries you'd save a lot of money by just buying tickets well in advance on the internet. This cuts down on flexibility, because discounted tickets usually can't be changed, but if the budget is tight, flexibility is a luxury.

Hostels prices usually don't fluctuate much, if at all. However, the better hostels get booked up quickly. Also, they should check out the price of budget hotels. Since hotels charge by the room and hostels charge by the bed, two people traveling together often save money by sharing a budget hotel room.

I recommend www.booking.com , which lists all sorts of lodgings, including hostels. You can enter the destinations as "city centre XXXX", which will filter out the places that are out in the boondocks. Then you can sort the list by price, and go down the list until you find places with good guest ratings and a reasonable number of reviews. Read the guest reviews before making a final decision.

I also recommend buying a copy of Let's Go, Europe, which is written by university students and focuses on budget travel. There is a French guide book series, Le Guide du Routard, which I like even better than Let's Go for budget travel, but I don't think it's available in English.

Don't worry so much. Travel through Europe isn't rocket science. If they don't do their homework they will struggle at first but get things sorted quickly. You'll be amazed how much she will grow up in 30 days. Working without a safety net will do that.

I remember a lecturer saying, when I was studying engineering, "if you can't draw it, you can't build it", and that's true. It's true of travel also - if you can't plan the journey, then you can't (or at least should not) take it.

I think the OP is looking for some reassurance that her daughter is competant to make the trip. The best test of that is whether she is even able to plan it, to come up with some sort of an itinerary that makes sense. She should be able to tell her mother how much the trip is sxpected to cost, and how she will get funds along the way.

Questions for Pickledpurls:
Does your daughter lose stuff (clothing, cell phones etc) very often.
Does your daughter run out of money.
Is she good at making plans and running with them.

Travel, being away from a familiar environment, amplifies all the problems. Lose your cell at home, no big deal. Lose your cell when travelling, and it'll be a problem.
Ditto with money. Losing your passport can de-rail the best laid plans. Changing plans for no good reason increases risk.

So the fact that some other person's 19 year old went to Europe at some previous time is not much help to the OP. But getting a handle on how competant and able Ms Pickledpurl is may build confidence.

Or it might run up a red flag, a "you are not ready for this yet" signal.

I just want to correct a misimpression. Hostels don't always have kitchens, although many of them do. If a kitchen is important to you, make sure to check whether the hostels you're interested in have one. Many hostels also have laundry rooms that can be used by the guests. They're usually wonderful places to meet other people, learn of local activities, and sometimes, especially in rural areas, to get to know some of the residents of the area.

Don't know how it is elsewhere but 17 in france and Belgium means you are a minor.

And a minor needs a parental authorization to leave the country.

For overall cost of the trip, you can do a quick estimate easy enough...

Not knowing where she is leaving from it's hard to guess at the plane ticket but let's say $1000usd (I saw that price JFK to Heathrow, obviously more if you're further west USA).

Then guess-timate $100 each time she changes cities by plane, train or bus, so x 6 = $600

Then daily budget fro pocket money, something like 30euro hostel bed, 30 euro picnic-style and street food from markets and inexpensive cafes, maybe 20 euro for admissions, local transportation, a bottle of water. So 80e x 30 days = 2400.

So a ballpark figure of approx. $4000usd for the one month trip?

Then guess-timate $100 each time she changes cities by plane, train or bus, so x 6 = $600>

A Eurail Select Youthpass could be cheaper than that per travel day.

I think Suze is close on the money, but I would allow more for admissions and local transport. More like 40 euro a day. The $100 to move cities might be a bit scant, depending on the mode of travel.

But starting with air tickets, then somewhere to sleep, transport to get from place to place, something to eat, and then recreational $$ is a good framework to build a budget on.

Sure guys, that's why I called it a "guess-timate"!

Actually I think the plane fare is the single biggest one that could be off, since I priced only from JFK and maybe she's in LA or Seattle or a non-major hub airport.

I rarely do anything with "admissions" myself, so for me that particular amount would be zero most days.

There's also the "staying with friends" part which could eliminate the hostel few and maybe even get her a free meal or two on certain days.

Lots of variables, just trying to give Mom a place to start.

My advice: go with her. Get separate hotel rooms, let them be on their own during the day, but at night they check in with you at the hotel. And when you leave for a new city, you all leave together. 17 is still pretty young and the world is a big place. I'm not saying she couldn't do it, but if she were 21 or 22, I would feel differently. At 17, you might consider tagging along.

IMHO we're still not sure what the mom's question really is.

And without knowing that we are shooting blind.

Sad to say but in the US many 17 year olds have never been to a big city and never even used public transit (just get driven or drive everywhere).

I would been have perfectly happy with either of my DDs doing this but they were mature, had city smarts and had enough money to pay for a trip.

Until the OP come back with a clearer question there's little we can do.

Traveling with a friend can be trying. I have known several young people who hate each other shortly into the trip, even to the point of splitting up and continuing on their own.

If they have not traveled or not together, the OP's daughter and her friend should go together to a medium or large city neither of them have been to, for three or four days. It should be for sightseeing, not to a beach somewhere. They should plan every single thing themselves, use public transport to get there and do it entirely on their own.

If that works out, the second thing is to make very sure any friends they plan to stay with will be there and will host them. At least have backup plans in case any of the hosts fall through.

>>IMHO we're still not sure what the mom's question really is.<<

I absolutely agree -- I hope the OP comes back and gives more details re what she really wants to know.

I just hope she isn't one of those newbies who never returns because they are waiting for Fodors to notify them of thread activity.

But at lease zeppole/sl got a chance to post her usual snippiness . . .

If there's one thing worse than piggy-backing on a thread for an advert, it's an advert for something that can't happen, like advising a 17-year old to rent a car in Europe. Triangled.

I agree with sandralist , wait for more info but I also know that I plan trips for many adults or help them out. Two of us are doing a trip now for five and their attitude is whatever we decide so a 17 year old on her first trip is a biggie and I can understand Mom's concerns. Not everyone is good at trip planning. I guess I remember going to the travel agent still! The internet changed all that of course but there is a lot of info to go through.
My nieces went with study abroad programs that helped them out with planning.

If you look at hostelworlds webpage you can pick hostels with a kitchen easy enough to save some money. Paris even has some.

This truly depends on the person, and we have zero background about the daughter. Plenty of 17 year olds travel Europe on their own without incident. But I'm sure there's also plenty of 17 year olds who are not mature enough to handle a trip on their own. We have no way of knowing which this girl is.