Dare I ask a Transportation Question?
 

DH and DS and I are looking forward to traveling to London again this summer.

I see on the TFL website that you can order the 7 day paper travel card. It says on the website that if you wait until you go to London to get the travel card it will be loaded on an oyster but if you want the paper travel card to order from home.

However, I remember reading that in order to qualify for two for one discounts you need the paper travel card from a national rail station. Are they still selling those to visitors? If I order from home would it have the railroad logo on it to qualify for two for one discounts?

Last time child went free--under 10. This time it says either get a regular travel card for DS or send in a picture with 10 pounds for processing for the child oyster card to get the child rates. Which makes more sense? The 10 pound processing fee sort of takes away from the child rate savings for a 7 day pass for zone 1-2.

Thanks.

Can't help with the child, but you don't order a paper travel card from the rail station in advance for the 2for1 deals. I gave never heard of a paper travel care from tfl...

Just wait top I'll you get here and get the travel card from the national rail station nearest you...you will need passport photos.

DON'T order in advance. No point in getting the Zipcard either unless your OVER 10 child is staying for several months.

Just go to a train station and sort everything out there - you will be able to get suitable Travelcards for adult and child. Just take some passport sized photographs with you as they need to create a FREE card to go with the Travelcard

According to the tfl website http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14554.aspx you only need a card for your child 5-10 years old if he or she is unaccompanied. I assume you will be with him so he should ride free with you without any pass or travel card

Per TFL website If your child is:
Over 10 years and 11 months
And under 16 on 31 August before the start of the academic year

They can get:
Free travel at any time on buses and trams
Child fares on Tube, DLR, London Overground and some National Rail services

Your child needs a valid Oyster photocard to get free travel on buses and trams, to get Travelcard season tickets and pay as you go at child rate.

A £10 administration fee is payable at the time of application.

You can get adult and child-rate Travelcards - photo ID is not required. They are issued as paper tickets from the Visitor Shop.

They no longer require photo ID for the travel cards--it says.

Children under 10 travel free but for ages 11-16 they do require a card--either an oyster that has to have a picture and be processed 4 months in advance of travel or a travel card (not an oyster).

Sounds like we should wait to go to a national rail station and get the travel cards there.

So it sounds like your son is over 10 years?

Europeannovice, I'm probably going against the stream here, but I would order the travel cards. For our trip to London in September 2012 we pre-ordered the 7-day travel card. The cards arrived at our home about 2 weeks after ordering and had the National Rail Logo at the top. We didn't use the 2 for 1 offers, but I think the cards could have been used for that purpose. I know most on this forum will recommend the oyster card, but I would preorder again. On the day of arrival, we had the cards in hand, walked into the tube station and headed directly down to the platforms without having to take the time to obtain an oyster card. I think there was some cost to preordering, but with an Oyster card there is a deposit and a photo is required as well. In short, preordering was convenient and worked for us. You can click on my name for my trip report for London.

Yes son is over 10. Didn't mean to confuse--he was under 10 on our first trip over a few years back and is now over 10 so we do need a card for him--just debating travel card vs. child oyster card.

Thanks Lynda--that is our other dilemma pre-order --would those cards be acceptable for two for one's or wait until we get to a rail station?

I have my doubts as to whether the TfL advance travelcard would be eligible for the 2for1s:
http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/ticket-types.aspx

It's always possible that the people at the various attractions won't check tickets too closely if at all, but the TfL version is clearly not the same as issued by the national rail companies, who run the 2for1 promotions (to get people to use their lines offpeak).

Having the same questions as my children are 11 and 12. We are in London for 6 days so plan to get the 7 day travelcard. From what I can tell, its best to pick it up onsite at a rail station.

I agree with a previous poster - it would have been easier to order online. On top of that, my brother lives in London so I could have gotten it mailed to him. But don't want to take the chance of the 2 for 1 not working. We are using it for at least 2 attractions.

Can I emphasise what Patrick says.

<b> Cards with "the National Rail Logo at the top" are NOT necessarily valid for the 2 for 1 deal, and it's hard to see what the point of buying them is if you don't want that deal </b>

LyndaM is wrong about the eligibilty of the tickets she bought for the 2 for 1 deal

It's not sufficient to have the National Rail logo on: they MUST have been bought at a National Rail ticket office. The ONLY way such tickets can be bought from afar is by getting a relative or friend to go to an office, buy them then send them to you.

<i>We didn't use the 2 for 1 offers, but I think the cards could have been used for that purpose. </i>

If you don't know, don't ring in. You just gave bad advice.

As Patrick and Flanner indicated, the TFL Travelcards are not usable for the 2for1 offers. This is clearly stated on the days out guide website and includes a picture of the travelcard style (#2) that Linda purchased, which contains the national rail logo.

http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/media/...5/sorry_no.gif

Thanks everyone for your valuable input as always.

We will wait until we arrive and purchase at a national rail station and not pre-order.


Thanks again.

Oh--one more question.

Is West Brompton Station considered a national rail station to which to purchase the 7 day paper travel tickets?

I am reading there are over ground stations which are not considered national rail (is that correct?) and only certain stations in London are national rail. Please advise further on this.

No, West Brompton isn't a national rail station. If you're staying that side of London, your best bet is Victoria.

If you look at a tube map the national rail stations are marked with a red symbol if two horizontal lines with ow diagonally through them. Overground stations are the stations along the line called the overground - it is the double orange line and these are not national rail stations

"If you look at a tube map the national rail stations are marked with a red symbol"

As West Brompton is (National Rail trains stop there as well as those on TfL's Overground line).

But the ticket office isn't operated by National Rail. The crowsfoot on the tube map doesn't indicate ticket office operation: it indicates an interchange between the tube/DLR and the national railway system. In fact, most National Rail stations inside Greater London don't appear on the standard tube map at all.

There is a list of National Rail ticket offices somewhere. Unfortunately the idiots at the railway companies who dreamt up this cockamamie promotion don't put it on their website.

And TfL, who've got a real job to do, isn't going to waste time and energy subsidising foreign tourists who can afford to pay for their holiday.

Ah thanks flanner, I stand corrected. If only this was easier to understand!!!!

Ok if you go to http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/statio...s/default.aspx and enter the station name and hit search on the left hand side if the page it tells you who operates the station - if it says Network Rail you can buy tickets valid for 2for1. If it says London Underground you cannot!

I tested it West Brompton says London Underground as Flanner said above - cannot buy tickets valid for 2for1. I then out in London bridge and it says Network Rail = yes you can get the correct tickets for 2for1 deals!

I hope this helps!!!

>> If only this was easier to understand!!!!<<

It's easy to understand for those it's intended for - people who normally get into London on national rail services.

So true Patrick!

Sorry it took me a while to respond back. DS has been sick again this winter. We have been having record snow and ice storms. I read that the UK is having record flooding. An unbelievable winter.

Thank you for the clarification of a network rail ticket office vs. a non network rail ticket office at a station where national rail trains have station stops. It is rather confusing. In any event, we would need to go to London Bridge, Euston or Victoria or Kings Cross. Got it now. Thanks.

I understand the days out program is meant to bring people living along the train lines into the city without their cars but if it is available for us visitors too--why not? We actually also intend to use it the other way around--using the train from London to visit Bletchley Park (a separate ticket will apply since it is outside zones 1-6) and Duxford which may or may not be on the days out program. I have to investigate that.

The best solution then would be to load up an oyster to get us into the city and over to a proper rail station to purchase the travel tickets. The oyster requires a £ 5 deposit that you can get back at the end. Is £ 5 the minimum balance required to be loaded on the card? In other words, let's say you initially load it with £ 10 and take a few trips. The last trip will cost £ 1.5 and you have £5 left on the card in this made up example. Will you be allowed through to take that trip and the balance will fall below the £ 5 or do you need to top up to £ 6.5?

Thanks in advance.

Plus the TFL website said that photo ID's were no longer required for travelcards. However, do you still need photo ID's for tickets purchased at a national rail location?

The TFL does not run the 2for1 deals the national rail does which is why you can't get the deals using the Oyster cards from tube stations - transport for London is what tfl stands for. They are referring to travel cards loaded on Oyster cards.

7 day travel cards eligible for the deals absolutely require a photo.

Honestly this is how it gets so confusing.

I tell my guests to just pay for a single ticket to get to London from heathrow - I think it costs about £4-5. Then they get the 7 day travel card with photo from a train station in town and pay the £4-5 to get back out to the airport at the end if their trip.

The hassle with worrying about saving a couple £, getting an oyster, getting the deposit back at the end just adds to the confusion and wastes time and costs so little when you consider the headache of trying to sort it out and get the deposit back etc...

Okay so passport sized photo still required for the national rail version of 7 day travel pass.

Just out of curiosity though in my example above would you need to top up to the £6.50 to take that last ride or can you dip below the £5? I understand your point about just paying for a single fare ride each way to and from airport to save on hassle.

Last time we were in London we did have a 7 day travel pass--it was issued on paper and it did have the national rail logo on it but no picture was required and we didn't try to use any of the days out promotions with it. At that time we had the 6 day London Pass (I know I purchased it before reading the advice on here but it worked for us then--the longer the days the more use you get from it). We also had an Oyster for the extra three days travel since we were there for a total of 10 days. The last time we were in the UK though we took the bus direct from the airport to Oxford and from there toured the Cotswolds, York and Edinburgh so we didn't have any London transportation pass to worry about since we didn't go to London then. Hard trying to remember what to do now that we want to return. Thanks for your help sorting it out.

ttt

Any answers for the example posed above? Would like to know how it works.

>> Is £ 5 the minimum balance required to be loaded on the card?<<

Nothing on the TfL website says so: that's the authoritative source.

Zero is the floor; not &pound;5. You will not need to top up to keep it above &pound;5. The card doesn't disintegrate or stop working if it goes below 5. :)

If there is a &pound;5 minimum, it must only apply at initial purchase. I'm pretty sure I used coins at a machine to top up to an exact fare (and zero ending balance) before.

Thanks for clarifying!

I have a couple of additional questions, since everyone in this thread is so helpful.

I'm arriving on an 8 day trip in the late afternoon. So for that first day, I'm just going to purchase a 1 way Piccadilly to Holborn Station near the hotel.

My questions:

1. Can I go and purchase my 7 day pass to start the next day?

2. How late are the ticket agents at Euston or Kings Cross open? I'm guessing 6 PM, but I'd hate to walk all that way (about a mile from the hotel) only to leave empty handed.

3. I am traveling with my mother, if I go to the station to buy the passes, does she need to be with me (I'd bring her photo for the pass)?

4. If I buy a pass for Zone 1-2, that means we can only use the Tube in those zones, but can go outside that zone (say Walthamstow) via the bus, correct? Also, to get back to Heathrow on day 7 of the pass, do we need to purchase another 1 way or can the pass be applied to the journey and we just pay a difference?

Thanks so much for your time and help.

1: Yes
2: Open till late:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/london...on/facilities/
3: I can't she why she should, but someone else may know
4: Yes, but a bus ride to Walthamstow from zone 2 would take forever. You could use the national rail service from Liverpool Street to Walthamstow Central, for which you would get an add-on ticket at Liverpool St. If you wanted to use the tube for that, I have a feeling you may need to get an Oystercard with some pay-as-you-go money on it, check out of the system at the last station in zone 2 and in again using the Oystercard for the journey into zone 3; but someone else may have better experience of doing that.

Patrick -

Thanks so much. I'll take the chance that I can buy the tickets on my own and can do it after an early supper. (Worst case, we just go back up there the following day, it would be only a slight diversion on our Sunday itinerary to leave from Euston instead of Holborn.)

I'm running the numbers in different ways: whether the £5 each for the Oyster deposit is better than just going for the weekly zone travel card and never worrying about anything if we want to change our plans on the fly (or get lost). If I want to go to Walthamstow and Kew, the zone 1-3 plus the cash fare for Heathrow on the last day is likely the most efficient though could run £2 more if we don't go to Kew (weather may not cooperate).

The 2 for 1 is already going to save us about £50 total, so I'm probably driving myself nuts over a few bucks one way or the other.

I'll report back in a few weeks on how that all went!

Okay, here are the results of my trip:

Walked to Euston station on Saturday evening to buy the national rail 7 day travel card. Could. Not. Find. Ticket. Counter. No one knew where it was.

So, we walked over to St. Pancras, which wasn't far and had no trouble finding the ticket counter, bought the cards & were very pleased with the beautiful station. (If you have a choice, go to St. Pancras, so much prettier and more shops/food than Euston).

Next day ... my card didn't work at all. I was told at the station that my card was not magnetized correctly and I should return to the station to have it re-done. So, on a rainy Sunday night, I went back up to St. Pancras only to be told that the whole travel pass system was down and I could try back the following day. Perhaps it would be working then.

I gave up and for the rest of the week I just showed my pass to the gate agent who was stationed in the Underground by the handicapped gate on my way in or out. It only bit me once when I couldn't find an agent, so I gave up and walked the quarter mile.

The 2 for 1 worked great. The only hiccup was taking the City Cruises, where we found their 30% off deal was better than the 2 for 1 (which would have to be a full day pass).

Still, saved about £28 total ... worth the effort. (Also, never would have seen Pancras otherwise, which I thought was notable from an architectural perspective.)

>>Could. Not. Find. Ticket. Counter. No one knew where it was.<<

I find that hard to understand -- what did you ask for?

Wow - what a lot of little snafu's - glad all worked out for you in the end.

Lizzie--thanks for reporting back. We are not going for a while yet but we will also let you know how it goes.

That's bizarre...the ticket counters at the train stations are pretty obvious...were you in a tube entrance rather than the main part of the station where the trains leave from? If so it is possible there was no ticket counter because some entrances for the tube don't have them...