ludivine

Hi,

I've recently booked a flight on June 2006 back to my residency in Hawaii from my current "place" here in Paris, France. I'm in a fair state of worry, however, because by the time I head back home, I will have overstayed my 90-day tourist visa, and spent a grand total of ten months here in France.

Will I be accosted by INS agents or fines or possible arrests on my return trip? Or can I expect things to pass smoothly? I should specify here that I'll be getting a new passport from the American Embassy here in the weeks before my departure to Hawaii. Once back in the states, I'll apply for a long-stay visa and do things "the legal way" this time.

I'd like to put my worries to ease. I have about 60/40 doubting that I'll run into trouble, but there's always the chance, right? If I am unable to go back to France... I'll have to say good-bye to everything that I love.

p.s. Has anyone here had to apply for a passport while in France? How was the process?

WallyKringen

The only time you might get questioned is by the French upon leaving France. The US immigration officer couldn't care less where you spent your time (well, maybe if your passport shows Somalia and Afghanistan entry stamps...) as long as it was in the EU and you are US-legal and documented when trying to get into the US.

I got a passport from a US embassy in Europe - it can go quickly if it's a renewal of an existing one that you still have (as opposed to lost or stolen), but you should keep an eye on developments about the new kind of passport with the biometric chip that's being phased in - I don't know how easily and quickly overseas diplomatic missions will be able to issue that - maybe you'll have to send to the US for that, which could take ages.

Why not go to the embassy in Paris now, renew now rather than wait until it gets too close?

WK

ludivine

Thanks so much, Wally, I can breathe a little. I was thinking of renewing the passport just after Christmas, actually. But then, will it not arouse suspicion that I am arriving at the customs counter of CDG with a "never-been-used" passport created more than three months before my departure to the U.S.?

I guess I'm afraid of controls asking me how I managed to procure a passport created at the U.S. embassy in France around Dec 27 2005, when the earliest I "could" have been in France is March 1 2006 (as I leave June 2006).

Perhaps my traveling with my kitten will distract customs from snooping around my case? I have given this serious thought, you know. But seriously, my main qualm with applying early-on for a passport here is the apparent contradiction between when the passport was made in France, and when I actually leave France.

I suppose I could bluff (it's becoming a habit these days) and say I've since returned to the U.S., and come back to France... but their having access to flight records (and my not being on there) is yet ANOTHER horrible variable thrown into this mess.

If there hadn't been the "apply in PERSON" stipulation at the San Francisco French consulate, I would have arrived in France on legal terms in the first place. I truly truly despise this biometric visa business, as a resident of Hawaii (thereby having to fly just to hand over a few pieces of paper to a visa clerk).

Orcas

Is it too late for you to do this legally? If it were the converse, and you got caught overstaying a visa to the US, you would be toast, believe you me.

ludivine

Harhar, I know. Well, I can't think of any way for me to "get legal" in France. My boyfriend and I have thought about getting married, but as it is I'm already illegal and I'm sure that'll be charming for the local prefecture to read as they review our file.

I'm losing sleep over this, and I hate it. I simply don't know what to do.

WallyKringen

It's not customs, it's immigration, or - in your case- emigration, and upon leaving I've never been scrutinized - you're out of there, you're not coming in. Besides, it's not France, it's the EU, and as an American you don't have to have a visa to get into the EU - the "overstaying" is pretty academic, I wouldn't worry about it. You could have snuck across into Switzerland for example and spent time there (not a part of the EU), and come across the border again into France at some time - it really is not an issue.

If the three-month period worries you, time the new passport so you get it in March, but I'd bet you a flute of the widow's best that exiting is not a problem - your kitty and the hassle of navigating CDG will be the worst of it.

WK

ira

Hi L,

Another voice to tell you not to worry.

Get your new passport 88 days before you leave.

Dave_in_Paris

Expect heavy security at the American Services branch of the U.S. Embassy in Paris. Don't take a cellphone if you're uncomfortable with surrendering it. You won't be allowed to carry it into the building. Check the embassy Web site for required form of payment. Last I renewed there, it took about two hours. But there's been a recent glitch in delivery of new "secure" French passports required by the United States, making it necessary for French traverlers to the U.S. to obtain additional documentation. If that hasn't been ironed out, the crowd could be larger.

flanneruk

At best, you're contemplating committing a criminal offence: you may well be doing so already. And anyone telling you you'll get away with it is as credible as those people who boast of not insuring their car.

Sorry. As credible as those people who tell you <b> they </b> insure their car, but that it realy doesn't matter if <b> you </b> don't.

Depending where you entered France, the likelihood is that your passport was scanned. So there's a record saying ludivine, citizen of x country, born on such a data, entered France on whenever.

When you leave France, your new passport will most likely be scanned at outgoing passport control. And bingo. Ludivine is an overstayer. Even if you weren't scanned, they'll ask to see the passport wiith your entry stamp on. And lying about what's happened makes that handcuffed trip to spend a night or two with the Algerian hookers a great deal more likely.

Unless ludivine changes citizenship, it really doesn't matter how often the passport changes, or whether the original official stamped your passport.

Now, unlike in certain countries we could name, you probably won't be immediately handcuffed and put into a detention centre overnight. It might just mean a big &quot;D&quot; being stamped on it - and the only thing that'll then happen is you'll probably never be allowed back into a Schengen country.

Or the system might not work. Or you might try driving on back roads to Switzerland.

Or you might be stopped for a papers check anytime between now and then, and detained for being illegal anyway. When you get your new passport, you need to get whatever visa you're currently on (the 90-day permit counts as a visa) transferred onto it: having a passport with no entry stamp means you're illegal, and no passport official will ignore a 6 month old foreign passport, issued at a foreign embassy, with no entry visa. If you really are planning on doing that, assume you are going to spend the following few days in jail.

Getting a new passport isn't just an irrelevance. It's downright dangerous. On the data you've given us, you're illegal already. You may well find your embassy is not allowed to collude in criminality by its citizens, and that it's actually a breach of its treaties with France to issue a normal passport to a known criminal. The best you're likely to get out of them is an escort to the next plane out.

Sorry to ruin your Christmas. But the people egging you on to continue breaking French law don't have to live with the consequences of their folly. You do.

Go home now. Get a proper visa. THen have a pleasant new year in France

Sue_xx_yy

It might be a good idea, make that a very good idea, to consult a French lawyer who specializes in immigration.

ludivine

Thanks very much, everyone.

From what I've garnered, it may be just less of a headache for me to make the trip back in June (sorry, can't go home now - have you seen ticket prices from CDG to HNL?) with my original passport.

As for being scanned in and stamped, I recall clearly the day I arrived at CDG. My passport was given a fleeting glance, no stamp nor scan whatsoever. However, I did fill out and submit the entry forms handed out on the airplane, so yes there is a paper trail leading up to the day I landed in France.

Now, about this Switzerland idea. I suppose it's doable, I should just be upfront about it and say I've stayed the ten months abroad, but alternated between Schengen and &quot;not-Schengen&quot; areas? I don't want to even think about what would happen if I made up a travel date or something like that. I've got plenty enough to worry about as it is.

So ixnay on the new passport. I'll just be sitting quietly for my plane in June and hope for the best. As for speaking to a lawyer, I am more than willing to give it a shot. Now if only I could find good immigration lawyers; the yellow pages here list none, unless I'm mistaken in my searches.

Again, thanks all.

Hal8999

I don't want to be considered as egging you on to break French law, however, I have a friend who has lived illegally in France for over 20 years and he's never had a problem.

I was in France last year and they did not scan my passport. The only country that has ever scanned my passport is the USofA on my returns. We were in Italy 2 months ago and they not only did not scan my passport, they did not stamp it and I did not fill out a landing card.

As far as leaving the country, I don't think you'll have a problem. There is a remote possibility that you could run into a problem getting an extended stay visa IF they scan or closely check your passport on departure so you may want to consider taking a train from Paris to Rome or Switzerland and departing from there. A few days in Rome is always nice.

ludivine

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. However, I'll be departing with my parents from Paris (they'll be in Europe for a week before my departure) and since we're fans of flying together. Makes getting up and going to the bathroom a lot less awkward, plus when you say &quot;hold this for a sec&quot;, you aren't greeted with bewilderment and unhelpfulness. ;-)

Anyway, as we've already booked the tickets to avoid being robbed blind by prices, and we're flying together, I think changing my departure location is a bit of a no-can-do for me, sorry. But thanks muchly for the input; it's very much appreciated.

ludivine

Yet another question has arisen, and here goes!

I'm looking for a health insurance plan with coverage in France that'll satisfy the insurance requirement in my long-stay visa and, later on, carte de s&eacute;jour acquisition.

Will &quot;travel insurance&quot; suffice? Or perhaps something else? I'm not at all familiar with this field, so some helpful input would be greatly appreciated. Names of companies, for instance - my Google searches are being unfruitful for now.

Thank you!

logos999

Is all this for real, or are you joking? In Munich you can be sure you would be put into a detention center right away if you're cought. You can be sure you will be, if you happen to walk down the street and happen to look different from everybody else. Ask some African immigrants, the words they hear everyday is &quot;Where passport?&quot;
What's happening in France that you can get away with this???

baladeuse

If you are white and/or don't do anything to attract attention to yourself - (eg. don't get caught on the metro without a ticket etc.) it's unlikely you will be asked for your passport in Paris.
The INS does not care how long you were away, what you have to worry about is the French authorities finding out that you were in the country illegally.
On one trip to France a few years ago, my Canadian passport was not stamped at CDG airport when I arrived. When I was leaving three weeks later, the officials at CDG asked why there was no entry stamp - I said I had no idea- then they asked for other Canadian ID - my driver's licence, health card etc. It was all fine, but I was just puzzled at the time what it was all about. Thinking back now, I realize they were probably checking that I hadn't overstayed in France.
If I were you, I would travel by train or car to the UK or Switzerland or some other non-Schengen country about 2 months before your departure in June. I don't think the French will check your passport when you're leaving by car or train. Make sure your passport is stamped when you arrive in the UK/ Switzerland. Then when you get back to France you can get a French stamp and when you fly out in June you will be within your (new) 90 day limit.
Alternatively, could you leave now and apply in the UK for a long-stay visa for France with your French fiance, so that you could go back legally? Not sure if the French embassy in the UK would process an application from a non-resident of the UK though.

Christina

This is all a little confusing, but why is this so unusual to believe that it's not for real that you can be in France and not get asked for a passport by the police? I don't think even Germany is that much of a police state that police routinely stop people on the street and ask for their passports nowadays.

I've never once been asked for my passport when in Europe in any country, except when entering or exiting by plane (and maybe once on a train crossing borders). What's so unusual about that? The police in France don't routinely stop everyone on the street to make them show a passport, how could they.

I don't know the health insurance requirements or what would satisfy it. Travel insurance should if it is valid, but if you don't have it now, I don't see how you'll get it. It has limitations on time, also, as it's not for longterm travelers. I do know a French firm that sells medical insurance to students in Paris (and they do have repatriation, legal assistance, etc. services. They are authorized for requesting your Carte de Sejour. That is Assistance Etudiants at 70, rue Mouffetard, 5e (phone 01-42-17-00-20), email [email protected]

They have a web site, also
http://www.assistance-etudiants.com

They mainly handle students, and students' wives and children. For nonstudents or students over age 40, the brochure I kept says &quot;please contact us&quot;. So, maybe you should go visit those folks or something. If you are under 40 and not a student, it's not that hard to pick up a class here or there, if you want. Try L'Institut Parisien near La Motte Picquet metro--a lot of expats and others take classes there, and you can just take one and have it start immediately. Their prices are very reasonable and they have a student aid type office if you want to ask some questions (which is where I picked up the insurance brochure).

logos999

&gt;don't think even Germany is that much of a police state that
(Un)fortunately you're wrong. It only depends if you look like you could be an illegal immigrant/worker to attract the police. I've seen it many!!! times, fast and efficient here in Munich. Just walk down the street with your eyes open. Possible drug dealers have to remove their shoes, lorries with eastern european number plates are stopped, the drivers questioned. It's standard business everyday! On the other hand it's a safe place to live.!

ggreen

Hi ludivine,
It's been a while since there was any activity on your post, but since I just found it I thought I'd add my 2 cents. When I was a student in Paris many eons ago, about half of the people on our program opted to &quot;cheat&quot; with tourist visas rather than get a carte de sejour. (This was in the mid-80's and the gov't changed the application policy so it was a major pain to get the carte - hours waiting in line at an immigration bureau, etc.) The tourist-visa holders just made sure they visited another country that would stamp their passport during their stay, so that as another poster said, their visa started anew. None had problems returning to the US - and definitely didn't have the hassle I went through for the carte de sejour!

I hope you didn't lose more sleep over this, and figured out what you were going to do!

sheila

I missed this first time round. I'm a lawyer in the UK and have an extensive immigration practice. The law is, obviously different, but dealing with the similarities.......

You might well get away with it. But you might well not. Twice in the last year I've had to deal with white Americans coming into Aberdeen with their partners, and being refused entry because they had previously overstayed.

I think you should regularise. Bottom line is, it's not hard, and you're breaking the law. If you don't, then take the train to Begium and leave from there. You won't be checked going out of one Schengen country and into another, and there's a chance- small, but better than the other- that the departure from Belgium won't register as an overstay on the French screens.