Just returned from two weeks in London. Suffered from major, unanticipated culture shock. Dearth of restrooms, which in no small way contributed to the serious urine odor on the streets (this was the subject of a BBC TV piece, so I know it's not just my impression); lack of sanitation in food preparation (perhaps reflecting fewer govt. regulations); non-English speaking folks in the service sector, who also didn't comprehend the concept of "service"; abominable heat and lack of ventilation in the underground and restaurants; unrestricted smoking; people who seem to care only about their space and time (they'd walk right over you on the street or run you down when behind the wheel). Where were the down-to-earth Brits I thought I'd meet? Cost of everything was really astronomical too. <BR> <BR>On the other hand, antiquity of buildings and beauty of countryside was awesome. <BR> <BR>lily

Born and raised in New England, I moved to Tennessee as an adult (many years ago). Blatant racism, okra, pulled pork and cole slaw sandwiches, country/western music everywhere. 1 outta 4 so I hightailed it back to Massachusetts in less than three months (still eat the sandwiches). <BR> <BR>Paris: the efficiency of waitstaff; I never have to ask for a fork or look around for the waiter when I'm ready for dessert. Those folks appear like magic. <BR> <BR>Paris: no smiles. Americans smile at everybody; the Parisians don't. <BR> <BR>Malta: where do I start? Bizarre cars; their apparent oblivion to the great archaeological treasures (the remains of a Bronze Age village are in somebody's field, just past the yellow house); the buses; nothing being open when it's supposed to be; the women do all the work in the shops while the men sit around and yammer. <BR> <BR>Morocco: In a Berber home in the mountains, no electricity, no running water, extraordinarily happy people, absolute darkness and silence at night (no streetlights, no cars going by, no trees to rustle). In Marrakech, the licensed guides who speak several languages, are extremely well-educated, and have little hope of doing anything else. After a full day's tour, including being met at the train station and escorted to our hotel, the guide told us the fee was the equivalent of US$25. The three of us looked at each other in amazement, and which point Abdul began to explain why the fee was SO MUCH; we quickly explained that we thought it was too little, not too much, and doubled the amount. We would gladly quadrupled the amount, but felt that would have been seen as rich Americans being condescending. <BR> <BR>And I'll go back to Paris, Malta and Morocco in a heartbeat. I'll drive through Tennessee on the way to someplace else.

hey guys, how about "reverse" culture shock? <BR>I've been travelling extensively for the last 9 years. <BR>3 months ago, came back home due to poor health. and my goodness, the "culture shock" I'm experiencing in my own country and with my own family!! <BR>I'm still in the stage of unacceptance, struggling to find a reasonable balance of what I am now and what I have to be in order to fit in. Anyone has similar experiences they wanna share?

To Liling <BR>As I mentioned in an earlier post, I too experienced "reverse" culture shock after returning home from a year in Japan. Somebody once said "you can never go home". Well I think you can but it is too much to expect that we can fit back in in exactly the same way as before, because we come back different people. In comparison, any changes in home and family may seem much less noticeable. <BR>Like yourself, I then had to go away for another 9 years before I was ready to come home again. It may sound like a cliche, but now I feel like the world is my home. This is just the place I choose to base myself for now.

"Sylvia, you carry the Canada-good, US-bad thing too far -- where, after all, is the Wax Museum, etc. at Niagara Falls" <BR> <BR>Not Canada-good, US-Bad. Canada familiar, US foreign.

India the first time we went there....I was ashamed to be a tourist. But we got used to it, and went back again and again.

To Lily: <BR> <BR>"Where were the down-to-earth Brits I thought I'd meet?" <BR> <BR>Not in the touristy parts of London. Don't forget that London is a really multicultural city. You will meet them in the sort of pub where the workers go for a few drinks after work, but if you want to meet real Britons, visit the smaller towns and cities, York, Chester, Hereford, Gloucester, Truro etc.

Lily - I second Sylvia's comments. What you experienced was Central London, not Britain. There's a huge difference. <BR> <BR>In a way, I experience this kind of culture shock every day. I leave my calm, clean, quiet, friendly home village every morning and arrive, half an hour later, in an alien place which is dirty, polluted, several degrees hotter (and the tubes several degrees above that) and full of rude and aggressive commuters. <BR> <BR>If you want to experience Britain, you have to get out of London, the further the better.

I think culture shock has to do primarily with expectations. When I moved from Michigan to North Carolina, I had culture shock -- but that was probably because I expected North Carolina to be very similar to Michigan except for the weather. Boy was I wrong! I have a Polish last name, which is not a rare thing in Michigan but in North Carolina was considered exotic (several people commented to me that names ending in vowels are very rare in NC, and lots of people asked me if I was Russian). North Carolinians dressed up much more than Michiganders for everyday life (sundresses instead of T-shirts and shorts). Religion (especially Protestant) played a much more important social and business role in NC than it did in Michigan. I was surprised at the much higher percentage of blond-haired, blue-eyed people in NC compared with Michigan, and the general lack of as much ethnic diversity in NC compared to Michigan. As an attorney, I was surprised when an NC judge referred to me in open court as "little lady." On more than one social occasion in NC I was asked, "And who are your people?" (I assume they meant my family background -- what a strange question to me!). <BR> <BR>I always experience a little culture shock in NJ at the prospect of no such thing as "self-serve" gas stations. <BR> <BR>By contrast, when I travel to foreign countries, I usually expect them to be pretty different from where I live, so I don't think I experience "culture shock" to the same degree.

Lily, obviously haven't been to many big cities before. have you ever tried to find a public restroom in say New York! I think thats why somebody even published a book with maps for public restrooms in cities (saw it on Seinfeld). And don't get me started on those cabbies. Even in small cities in the US, most service industry jobs are now going to recent immigrants since the economy has been doing so well, nobody else will work at those low pay.

Lisa, I experience culture shock in Charlotte too; and I only live 125 miles away! I find Charlotte rather small minded. It's all about the church you attend and outward appearances. Triangle area is about as laid back as it gets fashionwise, maybe it's from the influx of people. Though I do tire of transplants talking about how things were done "back home." From your name standpoint, the only Polish name most NCers know is Mike Krzyzeski. I remember when he was hired at Duke everyone was fumbling over his name. Maybe if there were more people of Polish decent we might have a better understanding of the culture. Doing my best to rid the world of "little lady" comments, but my contribution is small. <BR> <BR>Elvira, if you ever drive through or vacation in NC, we have excellent barbeque here. <BR> <BR>Anyway, I experiece big-city culture shock from the buildings, traffic, noise, subways, and lack of trees. I do enjoy trying new ethnic foods that aren't availble here.

Reverse culture shock - After returning to Washington DC after my first trip to Europe was complete culture shock. I now understand the meaning of the book "Conspicuous Consumption". I downsized bigtime (oxymoron?). Now I save every penny to travel not to gather more things.

Want a tiny inkling as to what it is like sometimes to be black in this country--try being a blonde on a subway in Mexico City. also-- free bathrooms in US are majorly unappreciated--anyone coming here- do they notice this????

Great thread, and yes, I have to agree with the experience of culture shock upon returning to the U.S. after 3 years in Italy. We instantly abhorred the overabundance and sterility of shopping malls loaded with excessive ridiculous STUFF, huge supermarkets, huge boring, cookie-cutter housing plans -- houses that ALL LOOK EXACTLY ALIKE! Everything here seemed so new, so glitzy, so super-sized compared to the comforting solidarity of Roman ruins or medieval villas and cobblestone roads in ancient neighborhoods that had withstood time. WORST of all was the overprocessed food! After the first month back, we didn't eat in restaurants for a good 6 months because the food tasted like cardboard. Thank goodness for my cooking classes in Italy (and the SLOW-FOOD movement in Europe). <BR>The funny thing is that my European fiends can't wait to hit Walmart and the malls when they visit for the good prices and variety!

to laura and joyce: <BR> <BR>I suppose the main thing about this is that the image one has of a place/culture is based on a set of information that is based on fictions. eg britain is full of men in pin striped suits with bowler hats; everyone either talks like the queen or dick van dyke and we all know the beatles. When this isn't true "culture shock" ensues. This is an extreme example but many of our ideas are based on such preconceptions that are either dated or never really existed. <BR> <BR>Also it is possible to have a tourist experience in a bubble. We brits have a mental image of american tourists on whistle stop tours eg "if this is tuesday it must be belgium". One can stay in tourist hotels, visit "attractions" that the locals wouldn't be seen dead in (in london these include madam tussauds, leicester square, the london dungeon, piccadily circus, soho skin shows, the mousetrap etc. FYI these are all horrible); eating in restaurants that are aimed at tourists in the tourist areas eg Leicester Square, and travelling around on the guided tour bus; going into pubs such as the hampshire in leicester sqaure which hasn't had an english customer since 1888. <BR> <BR>If one did this I would imagine that one wouldn't experience any form of culture shock, as these places have a vested interest in playing to preconceptions. Japanese tourists seem to welcome this "theme park britain" tourism as they find it unthreatening. <BR> <BR>This is what happened to me in the USA: I did realise that you don't all ride around on horses and talk like John wayne, nor do you all behave like travis bickle in taxi driver. I am also smart enough to have worked out that the characters in "Friends" couldn't afford the appartments they live in! <BR> <BR>But some of my other preconceptions were equally false. <BR> <BR>Eg America is a country where the customer is always right. Not this customer apparently <BR> <BR>America is an efficient country. Maybe I just had a few bad experiences with the post office, driving licence people, insurance company, estate agents, bank, and so on. <BR> <BR>On the upside though I also found many americans better read, cultured and intelligent than we snooty europeans presuppose. <BR> <BR>But what no amount of TV, film, literature etc can prepare one for are the little way-of-life things that are very diffrent. <BR> <BR>I was amazed at how religious america is and how many people go to church, I was also amazed that you can get cheese in an aerosol. <BR> <BR>I was shocked to find out how insular many americans are, I was also shocked at being given free coffee when I had finished my cup. <BR> <BR>I was amazed that an area that I thought to be notorious (south central LA, which i am only familiar with through rap music and films like Boys in the hood) is actually full of large pleasant houses. I was also amazed that you bought records by hootie and his damned blowfish. Don't get me started on Dave Matthews. No really don't. <BR> <BR>In short; remember all your preconceptions are actually literary devices, or journalistic short cuts. I have yet to see a news report on Britain without a shot of big ben in it. Big ben is quite small and you can't see it from most of london. <BR> <BR>In particular i learned don't assume that a shared language means a shared culture or outlook. It just disguises the gulf. <BR>

Re: David West <BR>Thank you, David, what an interesting reply! Isn't it funny how it FEELS to EXPERIENCE something (such as free coffee ...and free soft drink :)...refills ) rather than to just read about it? Let me give you something back...some of the surprises an American feels as she experiences Great Britain (in particular, England).... <BR> <BR>Seeing the words "dual carriageway" instead of freeway or expressway made me feel like I was living in the world of Miss Marple..... <BR> <BR>seeing the little white signs on the roads everywhere with place names and mileage posted on them.....if only the States were marked so well and so clearly! <BR> <BR>Peas, peas, peas on just about every menu in England...(can you even get them in a restaurant over here?)... <BR> <BR>The English really do love beans on toast....and yes, they really do deep-fry bread there.... <BR> <BR>The beautiful gardens everywhere....the colorful flowerboxes...what a gift for making places so lovely with flowers.... <BR> <BR>The patience people have while waiting in queues... <BR> <BR>The willingness and the kindness the British show in giving directions to hopelessly lost tourists.... <BR> <BR>And the desserts in England.........man, oh man. Bakeries everywhere. The pastries are to die for. The pies are excellent, so are their cakes and tarts. And if they offer to put cream on it, I let 'em. Mmmmmmmm Their cream is different their ours, real thick and sweet. Makes an excellent dessert out of this world. <BR> <BR>The look of distaste on British faces as one laces her fries (chips) with tomato sauce (ketchup)...geesh! Or worse, dips her fish in it, too! <BR> <BR>The politeness of drivers in the countryside.... <BR> <BR>How amazingly different GB is from one part to another....palm trees in the south, yellow stone buildings in the Cotswolds, grey stone buildings in the north, the Lake District with its rolling hills, beautiful, beautiful Yorkshire....well, I could go on and on... <BR> <BR>Seeing "Surgery" instead of Doctor's Office....thought at first there sure were a lot of hospitals in England.... <BR> <BR>I was amazed at how many clothes people wear at the beach....and I loved the Punch and Judy shows you see there.... <BR> <BR>The , hmmm, how can I describe this?..well, maybe aloofness is the right word for the attitude one sees so often in a sales or hotel clerk....all business and not much happiness? Don't know, but makes me squirm a little feeling like maybe I have made them angry or put them out....not ALL clerks, by any means, but a lot seem to have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.... <BR> <BR>How different the cuts of meat are...I cook a lot, and I could not recognize many of them.... <BR> <BR>I was surprised at the lack of refrigeration at many butcher shops in the country (meat and eggs)...seems kind of dangerous.. <BR> <BR>No tipping at pubs threw me...liked that idea! <BR> <BR>All right, I have shandies while I am there....I'll admit it. I love them, and I can't seem to duplicate them over here....maybe because pub beer is so good? <BR> <BR>Love Ploughman lunches! Best cheddar in the world in England....reminds me..Cheddar Gorge is a fascinating place!... <BR> <BR>Well, enough. I have been to England many times and will be back many more. You have a wonderful country, David, in my opinion, and I hope you enjoyed mine. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

re: joyce <BR> <BR>Do you have any impressions of England you could share? Would love to see them...

David, what an intelligent post! By the way, I am an American who has NEVER had cheese in an aerosol and who never intends to.

I have been to several countries in Europe several times, but I just came home from my first trip to Russia. I had good instruction before going on what to expect, because I was traveling with Russians whom I had met in the US when they were here and American who were making one's 6th trip and the others 12th trip. They forgot to tell me one thing: the Russians make their beds up very differently. I was staying at a dacha outside of Moscow. I couldn't figure what to do. There were several layers of sheeting which seemed to have what we would call feather beds in them. They seemed to be something to sleep on, but the coverlet seemed to nice to sleep under. I was carrying a sleeping bag, because we were not sure what our lodgings in various places would be, so I just put it on the bed and slept in it. The next day when my American friend saw that the bed was still made, she explained that I was supposed to get under those layers of sheets! It was very comfortable when I did that the next night.

The first time I ever travelled out of North America to Vietnam: <BR> - the slow pace of life; too humid to wear a watch, and it's okay to wear (certain) pajamas out, so the only time I ever changed my clothing was when I showered (which is sooo much more refreshing in a hot humid place) <BR> - The beds are huge rosewood/teak-ish platforms, carved and decorated but to an American, too hard; no padding at all. But my family had spent thousands of dollars purchasing and shipping a firm mattress to my grandfather, and it just sat there in it's own room completely untouched--they said it was too uncomfortable to sleep on! The mosquito nets I expected. <BR> - The driving in Saigon; they let me drive a motorcycle, without a permit or anything and I was 12. There are no stop lights, very few signs, seemingly no rules. Bicycles, mopeds, cars and bike-cabs all jammed together; sometimes in slow-moving traffic it would be so tight that driving on the street someone else's bicycle handlebars would poke me in the shoulder.