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-   -   Croatia without Dubrovnik ? (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/croatia-without-dubrovnik-1659591/)

tostaky Oct 25th, 2018 08:18 AM

Croatia without Dubrovnik ?
 
Hi !
we are slowly planing our next summer (july 5 to august 1-2)trip. We are a family of 4 (2 kids of 7 and 11) and we are looking for a 24-28 days trip in the Dolomotise, Slovenia and Croatia.

It seems that renting a car in italy and taking it into Slovenia and Croatia it,s possile (but cost something like 7euro by day), but Bosnia or take the car into a ferry is not allowed. Thos facts would make a vitit to Dubrovnik very hard to do.

Also, it seems that Dubrovnik is a real zoo in summer time and that it's not easy with kids.

can we leave Dubrovnik out without missing our trip into Croatia completly ?

We are not that much beach type and it seems that it,s the main drag for Croatia, maybe we have done a bad trip choice ?

Thanks !

neckervd Oct 25th, 2018 09:52 AM

If you can take your rental car into Croatia, you will most probably be allowed to cross the few miles of Bosnian territory around Neum.
It's up to you to know which places in Croatia you want to visit and why. Croatia is much more than only the stretch of coast along the Adriatic Sea..

KarenWoo Oct 25th, 2018 12:54 PM

If you haven't done so yet, I strongly recommend purchasing some good guidebooks, such as Rough Guide, Fodor's and Rick Steves. We will be going to Croatia and Slovenia in April for the first time. Croatia is not only about beaches. It is about so much more.

dreamon Oct 25th, 2018 01:14 PM

Dubrovnik is a beautiful (but sometimes very busy) town but there are many other beautiful places in Croatia. If you don't go there you don't have to feel like you're missing out.

kja Oct 25th, 2018 05:09 PM

With the time you have, you can't possibly visit the Dolomites and Slovenia and the highlights of Croatia, so something's got to give, and Dubrovnik is the furthest out of range for your itinerary, so skipping it would make sense. And southern Croatia -- Dalmatia (in which Dubrovnik is located) -- is one of many very distinct regions within modern Croatia, and again, I don't see how you could meaningfully include all of its regions, so yes, you will miss something, but you are going to miss something no matter what.

tostaky Oct 26th, 2018 06:49 AM

Thanks for those answers !

I'm curIous about those place that are not beaches and/or that would nit make me regret skiping Dubrovnik.

​​​​​​Kia: of course traveling always mean to make some heartbreaking choices. Our basic plan was:
-Venice (2 Nights)
- Dolomites (3-4 Nights)
- Trieste(2nights)
- Slovenia (5-6 Nights)
- Istria (4-5 Nights)
That leaves us with 5-10 Nights for Croatia beside Istria.....

neckervd Oct 26th, 2018 07:54 AM

Tostaky/Papinau:
you really got answers to all your questions in the forums of Thorn Tree, Rick Steves and Fodor's. As long as you refuse to tell us what you are interested in, it's a bit difficult to tell you which places in Croatia you should visit.
You certainly know that the most popular one's are Dubrovnik, Korcula, Hvar, Split, Trogir, Sibenik and Krka Falls Park, Rab, Mali Losinj, Pula, Parenzo, Rovigno and Zagreb.

danon Oct 26th, 2018 08:18 AM

Croatia is a small country..the coast ,ie the beaches , ist where one wants to spend some time.
You may skip Dubrovnik, but the days would be long without beach time in the middle of the summer, imo

neckervd Oct 26th, 2018 08:38 AM

I forgot Plitvice Jezero, sorry!!!!

Mimar Oct 26th, 2018 08:44 AM

neckervd strangely omitted Plitvice, a UNESCO World Heritage site and national park that consists of stairsteps of intensely blue lakes connected by waterfalls.

Gotta agree with kja; you've an awful lot on your itinerary. Will you be arriving in Venice after a long flight? If so, you will be jet-lagged and not see much of Venice.

We flew into Dubrovnik, took a boat to Korcula and then on to Split, picked up a car for Plitvice and Istria. We are older and kind of past the beach thing but still managed to find lots to see.

Croatia is one of our all-time favorite trips. We need to go back to see more.

neckervd Oct 26th, 2018 09:36 AM

We have so many small lakes of all colours in my country (Switzerland) that I was not overwhelmed when I saw the lakes of Plitvice. But they are worth a visit, there is no doubt.
As to Unesco World Heritage sites in Europe, most of them are not even known by local people. Who kows
Canal du Centre
Relief of Madara
Reichenau Island
Skandola Park
Salines Royales d'Arc-et-Senans
Reliefs of Capo di Ponte
Monte San Giorgio
Medieval city center of Thorn
La Chaux-de-Fonds
San Millan de Louso
Tarraco
Atapuerga
Ubeda
etc., etc.

kja Oct 26th, 2018 06:43 PM


Originally Posted by danon (Post 16815237)
Croatia is a small country..the coast ,ie the beaches , ist where one wants to spend some time. ... You may skip Dubrovnik, but the days would be long without beach time in the middle of the summer, imo

FWIW, I spent nearly a month in Croatia, didn’t visit a single beach, and felt hard-pressed to see even the things I most wanted to see in such a short time. To each his/her own!


Originally Posted by neckervd (Post 16815281)
We have so many small lakes of all colours in my country (Switzerland) that I was not overwhelmed when I saw the lakes of Plitvice. But they are worth a visit, there is no doubt.

Much as I loved the lakes of Switzerland -- and I did! -- I wasn't aware that there are any travertine formation lakes or waterfalls in that country, and I thought the colors of the Plitvice Lakes unique in that the colors differ even in the same lake, not because of depth or shadow or light, but because of colonies of microbiota that inhabit different areas of the same lake. But I could be wrong!

neckervd Oct 27th, 2018 06:52 AM

No kja, your are not wrong. The some 1000 small mountain lakes of Switzerland (I visited only a few hundreds of them) are somewhat different.
I just gave my personal opinion.

tostaky Oct 28th, 2018 08:15 AM

HI everyone,
last night , we have taken a glass of wine , made some reading and came with something....what do you think of :


1) flight into Venice (2 nights) then rent a car for the whole trip.
2) Trieste (1-2 nights)
3) (Istria (4-5 nights)
4) Plitvice (2 nights) ..should we make a detour to Zadar or somewehre else a bit in the southern part before going there?
5) zagreb (2 nights)
6) Slovenia (6-7 nights), we will have to choose two base to see : Ljubljana, Bohinj, BLed, caves, Vrsic pass, julian alps) Anything else ?
7) Road to the Dolomites (stop in route ? )
8) Dolomites (6 nights with two bases..maybe Cortina and Ortisei ? with day trip to Tre Cime and Bolzano)
9) Verona (2 nights)
10) Padova (1 night)
11) fly back to Montreal

We have chose , not an easy decision , to leave out the dalmatian coast for that trip. That would mean to rush some places. Since we are travelling in the heart of summer with two kids (7 ans 11) we have to move not too fast.

Should we do the loop other way around (strat with Verona and Dolomites and end with Istria and Trieste ) ?

Travel would be july 6 to agust 2.

Thanks !

neckervd Oct 28th, 2018 09:57 AM

You got suggestiions for all thinkable itineraries linking the places that you mentioned in your many previous posts.
Now you changed your projects and decided something else. It's your decision and I don't see why I should criticize it.
I suppose you exactly know what you will do during 2 days at Trieste (without any trip to the Hinterland) and at Zagreb and during a full day at Verona.
I don't think that a day trip from Ortisei to Bolzano/Bozen makes any sense, as you will pass through Bolzano/Bozen on your way from Ortisei to Verona anyway.

In order to answer your questions:
I wouldn' go up to Zadar, if you want to turn back to the North from there anyway. Neither the highways E 65 and E 71 nor the city of Zadar would justify this detour. Things might be different, if you would proceed up to Split.

ad 6) what do you mean with "Julian Alps"?

ad 7) what do you mean with "Dolomites"? I told you in one of my posts above that a direct car ride from Bled/Vric Pass to the Eastern Dolomites can be done in less than 3 hrs.

Have fun lors de votre planification en détail!

tostaky Oct 28th, 2018 11:02 AM

Change of project ? it always been Dolomites, Croatia and Slovenia. Is right that we have receive many, very appreciated, answers, but there's many ideas and each one have is own prefrence.

Julian alps ? or how they call mountains in Slovenia ?

What I mean with Dolomites ? Dolomites I guess.

Daytrip in Bolzano can be change. I dont know how much time we need to visit that place, maybe only a 4-5 hours stop in route could be enough.

2 nights in Trieste is the option if we are there before headinmg back to Montreal. The plan was to sleep there the night beafore heading VCE airport (flight back home is at 13:30), One night could be enough if we start the trip there after Venice.

2 days in Zagreb is only because we try to avoid one night beacaus of the packing and unpacking.

neckervd Oct 29th, 2018 03:55 AM

The Dolomites begin north of Lake Garda and east of the Swiss border (Dolomiti di Brenta) and go up to the Julian Alps close to Kreuzberg Pass and Ploecken Pass (Dolomiti del Friuli and Lienzer Dolomiten). The most important places within this area are
Madonna di Campiglio, Sta Maria in Castrozza, Feltre, Asiago, Belluno, Agordo, Predazzo, Moena, Lago Carezza, Canazei, Ortisei, Alta Badia, Santa Maddalena, Fanes-Sennes-Braies Park, Cortina d'Ampezzo, Arabba, Caprile, Cadore, Sexten, Obertilliach, Lavant, Oberdrauburg...

The Julian Alps begin east of the Dolomites. The most important places within this area are:
Sappada, Tolmezzo, Pontebba, Tarvisio, Jesenice, Kranjska Gora, Bovec, Fusine Laghi, Isonzo Valley, Bohinj, Bled, Triglav Park.

It would have been helpful if you had told us at least once in which one's of the hundreds of mountain valleys in this area you are interested in.

istrian Oct 29th, 2018 03:19 PM

One should definitely visit Plitvice but off season

tostaky Oct 31st, 2018 10:23 AM

neckervd: You obviously know those places better than us ! We dont exactly know which place we want to see. Tre Cime, lake braies, val gardena all seems lovely. We want two bases (2-3 nights each) that would allow is to see beautiful scenery without the need to do a lot of hiking.

istrian: we dont have the choice, we have to travel in july-august

kja Oct 31st, 2018 05:38 PM

A good guidebook or two would have served you well, and still might.

tostaky Oct 31st, 2018 07:51 PM

Kja: do you have any specific recommandations about guidebooks ?

kja Oct 31st, 2018 07:59 PM

The Rough Guide was, by far, the best of the half dozen or so I used when planning my time in the area.

kja Oct 31st, 2018 08:26 PM

And BTW, I mean the Rough Guide for each country.
My impression, which could easily be wrong (but has been formed over multiple requests for input from you over the years) is that you don't work with guidebooks, instead posting multiple questions on various travel websites. Unfortunately, NONE of us can tell you what you don't know to ask, nor can any of us speak to your particular interests. In comparison to the cost of your trip, the cost of a guidebook or two or even three will be nugatory, and you will have a wealth of information at your fingertips. For that matter, you can consult them at a local library or book store. You would, I think, be much better served by doing a bit of homework. JMO.

neckervd Nov 1st, 2018 03:10 AM

For a first approach you may load down the official sites of
Provincia di Belluno: Home Page - Infodolomiti
Provincia di Trento: https://www.visittrentino.info/en/tr...olomiti-unesco
Provinz Bozen: https://www.suedtirol.info/en/regions/dolomites
Osttirol: https://www.osttirol.com/en/east-tyr...es/summer.html
Provincia di Udine: Parco Naturale Dolomiti Friulane, tra le province di Udine e Pordenone https://www.parcodolomitifriulane.it/

tostaky Nov 1st, 2018 05:29 AM

Kja: I will look to get the Rough Guide. I already got the Rick Steves that covers Slovenia and Croatia. I do maje my homework by reading all those forums, searching with google and asking questions. It,s true that i'm not very fan of guidebook since the information is not alwayys up to date and that it show only one persone vision. I prefer forums since more peopls can answer and most of the time is people who have experimented recently the palces we are talking about.

neckervd: Thanks. By the way have you got my PM ?

We will have 4-5 nights for Dolomites, should we base ourselves in one or two places ? I know it depends of wahta we want to see. Like i,ve said may times Ortisei seems fine, Tre Cime and Lake Braies. Of course I guess we could stay in that region for one month and still enjoy it, but with only 4-5 nights we really eant to have a glimpse of waht the region has to offer, we want to see the higlights if such a thing exist.

And the basic question who need answering still remains : what would you do with 28 nights for Dolomites, Slovenia and Croatia ?

that road is 2000km. I guess we could do it it in 28 days
https://goo.gl/maps/JbsmdhsdK8m

neckervd Nov 1st, 2018 12:07 PM

For Val Gardena, stay at Ortisei or Selva, for Tre Cime del Lavaredo and Pragser Wildsee/Lago Braies (I never understand why so many people from overseas want to see that lake whereas Europeans usually bypass it) stay at Lake Misurina (nicer than Toblach/Dobbiaco IMO).

kja Nov 1st, 2018 05:23 PM

I believe you are making some assumptions about guide books and travel forums that are, at best, debatable:

· As a rule, the only things in guidebooks for which currency is an issue are hotel and restaurant reviews, and I don’t know anyone in today’s world of booking.com and tripadvisor.com who uses guidebooks for either purpose. Yes, sometimes there’s a change to something else – maybe a museum opens or closes – but that’s not all that common and so most guidebooks with even modest currency (issued in, say, the past 10 years) aren’t out-of-date in meaningful ways.

· There’s no reason that I know of to think that the majority of on-line travel forum participants necessarily have more current information than guidebooks. Or that they will have information relevant to YOUR interests and preferences -- see next bullet.

· Many forum participants have visited only a few specific things, with very narrowly defined purposes – and that is quite different than the better guidebooks that seek to provide comprehensive information for travelers with multiple, diverse, and even divergent interests and preferences.

· Most better guidebooks are written by multiple collaborators who have expertise developed over many years. Only a very few reflect just one person’s vision.

· At this point in my life, I’ve used well over 120 guidebooks, and the ONLY one I thought utterly and completely worthless was the Rick Steves guidebook for Croatia and Slovenia. IMO, it covers very little of either country, and what it does cover, it covers with strong biases and, in many cases, extraordinary superficiality.

· A good guidebook has all sorts of information –
a bit of history;
an introduction to the area’s culture;
descriptions of both regions and specific locations;
detailed information about a range of things and places one might want to see / experience;
information about local cuisines and specialties;
a list of basic words and expressions that might prove helpful;
maps;
a summary of local laws and rules of relevance to travelers (including rules of the road);
emergency contact information;
where to find basic services;
information of interest to particular groups of travelers, including families;
etc.
All in one place!
And all for a cost that pales in comparison to the cost of a trip.

kja Nov 1st, 2018 07:15 PM

PS. AND a guidebook has answers to questions you don't know to ask, and you can find that information just by flipping through the pages.

tostaky Nov 1st, 2018 07:18 PM

The only one you’ve found worthless is the only one i’ve got.....what a coincidence. Well ill live with it for now ! To my eye it got all you said a guidebook must have.

Neckervd: i’m curious, what would you do with 4-5 days in the Dolomites region ? And once again avec you got my pM ?

kja Nov 1st, 2018 07:22 PM

Right. It's the cheap one. So I've posted on this issue MANY times before -- you can do a search. Here are some of the most recent threads:
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...guide-1644407/
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...negro-1179723/
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...1468513/page2/

Reading trip reports tells you only what people did do, not what they didn't. And reading trip reports tells you nothing about the advice people got that they choose not to enact. Reading some planning threads can open whole new worlds to your consideration.

kja Nov 1st, 2018 08:55 PM

FWIW: You seem to be spinning in circles, posting the same or similar questions repeatedly and on multiple web-sites and going back and forth among options. I’m sure that’s frustrating for you! But whenever you get advice that might help you out of your viscious circle, it seems that you spurn that advice – and IIRC (and I could be wrong), you’ve done that when planning at least one earlier trip, too.

I have nothing to gain by offering my two cents, nor does any other Fodorite. But you stand to lose by treating any Fodorite, regular or otherwise, with disrespect. JMO.

I can’t imagine that there is anything else that I can say to you that you would find helpful. But in case future travelers read this thread – and many people, as part of their due diligence, do read prior planning threads – I would suggest that many of the problems you are experiencing could have been avoided, or at least drastically diminished, if you had taken a different approach to planning – an approach that involved actually comparing the contents of guidebooks before buying the cheapest one available, an approach that involved reading planning threads (not just trip reports), an approach that actually took the advice you have been so generously offered on board, rather than merely pretending to do so. JMO.

Best wishes, tostaky. I’m out.

tostaky Nov 2nd, 2018 06:22 AM

Kja: In the thread you make look at there,s people who said that Rick Stve's guide have been very helpfull for them, looking at those thread would'nt habve make me stop to buy it. You are knowledgeable but you dont have the possession of the truth I guess. Threating people with disrispect is not something I do. I you feel that i,ve been like that i'm sorry, but that's nort something I do. Maybe it has something to do with my bad choice of word but since english is not my first language....

Those planing thread have been read, at least those I could find, but no trip is exactly the same like another one. I,ve made marvelous trip uin the past and many people, including you, have been very helpfull.

neckervd Nov 3rd, 2018 04:20 AM

Je ne vois pas en quoi kja vous aurait traité "with disrespect".
Ceci dit, il a parfaitement raison: vous tournez toujours autour des mêmes questions. Vous avez reçu des réponses à tout. Maintenant, c'est à vous de décider. Ce sont VOS vacances, faites ce qui semble bon à VOUS!

tostaky Nov 3rd, 2018 12:37 PM

It,s the contrary, she told that i'm the one who is being disrespectfull. Si je pose toujours les mêmes questions, c'est peut-être parce que je n'ai pas toutes mes réponses ?
neckervd: Take thee, with 6 days for Dolomites region what would you do with it ?


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