Fodor's Travel Talk Forums - Crime US vs. Europe

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Crime US vs. Europe

I've been seeing a lot of messages where readers are saying that there is more crime in the U.S. than in Europe. Do you think this is true and why? Could it be that the U.S. is more aggressive (i.e. London police don't carry guns)? Any thoughts?

The statistics that I have seen indicate that serious crime (murder) is more prevalent in the USA than in Northern/Western/Southern/Central Europe. (# of murders per capita about 2 to 3 times higher in the USA than Europe) Petty crime is about the same in both areas.

The US is a big place. I'm not sure how meaningful it is compare statistics that include NY City and the smallest town in Wyoming with statistics for an area (Europe) that includes both Barcelona and Bergen. The number of murders per thousand people in US cities is vastly higher than comparable areas in Europe, and yes, any forensic specialist will tell you it has to do in part with gun ownership. But the number of thefts in Barcelona is way higher than the number in Guilford, NH. I think it would be much more meaningful -- and more in line with what Philip is asking -- if we had good comparisons between comparably large urban areas, and then look at issues like per capita income, employment figures, immigration, etc. I'm guessing that the US is much higher in violent crime, esp. where there is more poverty, more culture clash. But I'm also guessing that some cities in southern Europe see much more anti-tourist crime than comparable places in the US, partly because of the difference in attitude re:public relations. Disney, for example, will keep a heavy lid on pick-pocketing to protect its image (not that it doesn't happen there, but they do have heavy security and, otherwise, don't let much word about it leak out) -- but Barcelona just doesn't seem to care if locals make money in tourist season any way they choose to.

While this is such a topic as to expect several or many underlying factors, one of the most important may be the size of the "underclass" and the great disparity between those well off and the underclasses. twenj

At http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/crvs.htm, the US Dept of Justice compares crime *rates* between US & England. excerpts, quoted directly: In 1995 (the latest year that could be compared), serious crime rates measured in victim surveys were all higher in England than in the United States (statistically significant at the 95% confidence level). According to 1995 crime victim surveys, the -- - English robbery victimization rate was 1.4 times the U.S. rate (7.6 per 1,000 population versus 5.3) (figure 1) - English assault victimization rate was 2.3 times the U.S. rate (20.0 versus 8.8) (figure 2) - English burglary victimization rate was 1.7 times the U.S. rate (82.9 per 1,000 households versus 47.5) (figure 3) - English motor vehicle theft victimization rate was 2.2 times the U.S. rate (23.6 versus 10.8) (figure 4). end of quote. Burglarly, assault, & robbery are all "serious", even if they are not "murder". Much, if not most, of the murder in US is drug trafficking related. Unless you are an active hard-drug user or trafficker, the US murder rates way OVERESTIMATE the risk to individuals.

Disney's big porblem isn't pickpockets, it's drugs, mostly marijuana. Their employees cultivate the stuff secretly all over the park (the night security staff spends much of their time looking for the plants) and make a lot of money selling it to young guests. Fact, not fiction. Been there, worked there, seen it many times.

Statistics show that while violent crime is declining in the U.S., it is increasing in the UK, specifically, women as the perpetrators. Is this in any way related to Mad Cow Disease?

Some disparate comments, no conclusion: There is a far bigger difference in the crime rates of the rich & poor areas of ANY city anywhere than between the US & Europe. In recent years the Russian (& Eastern European) mafia have extended their operations right through Europe - some Scots were arrested last week after being involved in smuggling heroin with them.These are very bad people, they make the Italian mafia look soft, truly. Some have blamed increases in petty crime in some areas on the increase in asylum seekers & illegal immigrants in places where they concentrate.(in UK mainly around the ferry ports for France)Not a really big crime problem, but this is now a political hot potato right accross Europe. Crime stats depend very much on the rates of reporting, which vary greatly. NB:The London police you see on the street don't carry guns but the reality is the force is heavily armed and always have guns close nearby.The response time for armed police in London is very short.Guns are easy to get in UK, but not popular, most people assume you are a lunatic if you own one - they don't say so to your face, they just grin & back away. IMO the worst driver for crime is drugs as it can drive people to commit violent crimes for little money.This desperation changes peoples expectations of safety & matters more to them than bank raids etc. The "biggest" crimes are actually frauds, but the victims are government & big business so nobody bothers. We have the impression here that serious criminal violence is more common in the US, how much of this impression is due to leakage from sensationalist US media is debatable - BUT- I don't know of anywhere in the UK where you have to look around before getting out of your car to buy gas, nor do people take the precations considered normal in some urban parts of the US.I am told these precautions are needed, not a paranoid reaction, but who am I to say?