Credit card info thievery in Europe, is it really that common?
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:34 AM
#21
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As others said Europe has nothing to do with it.
Amex called me last week saying they'd refused a $2400.00 charge for a ticket to Tokyo. I hadn't used that particular card anywhere for a few months except at a restaurant that still uses the old fashioned card embossing machine. Even then the card was not out of my sight, so that is no guarantee either. The security people said to look at the receipts from electronic machines you are signing and if your whole account number is on it, to black out the numbers as they are not used by the merchant for any purpose.
Amex called me last week saying they'd refused a $2400.00 charge for a ticket to Tokyo. I hadn't used that particular card anywhere for a few months except at a restaurant that still uses the old fashioned card embossing machine. Even then the card was not out of my sight, so that is no guarantee either. The security people said to look at the receipts from electronic machines you are signing and if your whole account number is on it, to black out the numbers as they are not used by the merchant for any purpose.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:55 AM
#22
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It happened to me about 10 years ago in the UK. Just a couple of unknown charges to my CC which were removed when I protested. Not a big deal & certainly didn't put me off using my credit card.
Thieves know no borders.
Thieves know no borders.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:17 AM
#23
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I really seem to be missing out on an interesting dimension of life. I have used CCs and ATM cards for donkey's years, principally at home in Ireland but also a few times a year elsewhere in Europe and sometimes further afield. Telephone and online transactions, too.
Never had a problem (well, never had a card-related problem; ensuring the funds to cover the transaction is another matter).
Never had a problem (well, never had a card-related problem; ensuring the funds to cover the transaction is another matter).
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:21 AM
#24
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It also happened to me in Florence last year. The only time I used my credit/debit card was when we were checking out of the hotel we stayed at to pay for the tickets they reserved for us at the Uffizi and Acadameia cost 33 euros (about $44.00), by the time I got to the states my bank was calling me trying to verify about $400.00 to a Paypal account from Ebay. My bank did not process the charges until they confirmed it with me since they were aware of my travel dates and thought it something was amiss because the charges were being made on the date that I told them I was flying back (was actually in the air at the time).
Of course, at the time I had never heard of Paypal and had never bought anything from Ebay.
I was so glad that my bank was on top of things and this was my card that ties into my checking account. I did use my other cards Amex and Citibank, but no fradulent charges were made to them.
Of course, at the time I had never heard of Paypal and had never bought anything from Ebay.
I was so glad that my bank was on top of things and this was my card that ties into my checking account. I did use my other cards Amex and Citibank, but no fradulent charges were made to them.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:15 AM
#25
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i travel at least 10 times a year - europe, africa and australia. have never had any bad experiences.
just get the emergency number of your cc company and relax.
being in the wrong place at the wrong time anything can happen anywhere in the world!
enjoy travelling!
div
just get the emergency number of your cc company and relax.
being in the wrong place at the wrong time anything can happen anywhere in the world!
enjoy travelling!
div
Jul 2nd, 2008, 04:27 AM
#28
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The more often you use your cc the more likely you are to have problems.
I console myself with this thought while queueing behind these characters who pull out a cc every time they want a bar of chocolate.
I also imagine them being torn apart by wild animals. This helps too.
Its only happened once to me - on an AA corporate card which was used by someone to pay for a luxury weekend in an Irish hotel. The card had only ever been used in the US and for travel between US and UK. One call fixed it.
Skimming the regulars at a shop/restaurant is likely to be noticed - people talk to each other. Tourists are better targets.
I console myself with this thought while queueing behind these characters who pull out a cc every time they want a bar of chocolate.
I also imagine them being torn apart by wild animals. This helps too.
Its only happened once to me - on an AA corporate card which was used by someone to pay for a luxury weekend in an Irish hotel. The card had only ever been used in the US and for travel between US and UK. One call fixed it.
Skimming the regulars at a shop/restaurant is likely to be noticed - people talk to each other. Tourists are better targets.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 05:58 AM
#29
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<<Amex called me last week saying they'd refused a $2400.00 charge for a ticket to Tokyo.>>
A friend had a similar incident. She used her card in Maine and was called a couple of days later to verify a large purchase in Japan.
A friend had a similar incident. She used her card in Maine and was called a couple of days later to verify a large purchase in Japan.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 06:08 AM
#30
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<<Skimming the regulars at a shop/restaurant is likely to be noticed - people talk to each other. Tourists are better targets.
>>
It used to happen a lot at petrol pumps here in the Netherlands - locals, tourists, anybody got done. They only need your card once, and there is no way of knowing where it happened of course. Now it is increasingly rare though still done - only last week a couple of Bulgarians were caught trying to fit a skimmer to an NS ticket machine.
The Netherlands is increasingly an cashless society with everyone using their debit card to pay at supermarkets and other shops, even for small amounts, which makes it easier for skimmers maybe. CCs aren't used so much here to pay for things in shops.
With internet payments using a CC you need to be absolutely sure you are at the secure site of the merchandiser not at some site a hacker has added to the system. Once they have your number and verification code they can do anything they like with it.
>>
It used to happen a lot at petrol pumps here in the Netherlands - locals, tourists, anybody got done. They only need your card once, and there is no way of knowing where it happened of course. Now it is increasingly rare though still done - only last week a couple of Bulgarians were caught trying to fit a skimmer to an NS ticket machine.
The Netherlands is increasingly an cashless society with everyone using their debit card to pay at supermarkets and other shops, even for small amounts, which makes it easier for skimmers maybe. CCs aren't used so much here to pay for things in shops.
With internet payments using a CC you need to be absolutely sure you are at the secure site of the merchandiser not at some site a hacker has added to the system. Once they have your number and verification code they can do anything they like with it.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 08:16 AM
#31
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Sorry for suggesting that credit card thievery only happens in Europe. I guess traveling/vacationing anywhere makes you more vulnerable to fraud because of your use of cc in more frequency than while at home (where you use it in more familiar and trusted establishments).
I have never had anything like this happen before, though my check book was once stolen at a ferry on the way to Alcatraz in SFO, and there were attempts to cash out one of my checks. That was 18 yrs ago. I travel around the US quite often, and only in the last 3 years I am traveling outside the US. So something like this happening to me made me more wary while traveling in Europe.
No offense to anyone. But I have to say that I really didn't like Brussels. There's too much trash in the streets. Maybe it's just me?
I have never had anything like this happen before, though my check book was once stolen at a ferry on the way to Alcatraz in SFO, and there were attempts to cash out one of my checks. That was 18 yrs ago. I travel around the US quite often, and only in the last 3 years I am traveling outside the US. So something like this happening to me made me more wary while traveling in Europe.
No offense to anyone. But I have to say that I really didn't like Brussels. There's too much trash in the streets. Maybe it's just me?
Jul 2nd, 2008, 08:26 AM
#32
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citrouille wrote: "But I have to say that I really didn't like Brussels. There's too much trash in the streets. Maybe it's just me?"
Don't be hard on yourself, citrouille. I am sure that you were not trash in the streets.
I like Brussels somewhat. Some pleasant buildings; people easy to deal with; the slightly worn air of an elderly uncle. And beer and chocolate.
Don't be hard on yourself, citrouille. I am sure that you were not trash in the streets.
I like Brussels somewhat. Some pleasant buildings; people easy to deal with; the slightly worn air of an elderly uncle. And beer and chocolate.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 08:33 AM
#33
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Ha!
The old unkempt buildings near Gare du Midi took me by surprise. It was quite a culture shock having stayed in Paris for a week, and to see a dumpy city.
I like the people though. They are just as friendly and helpful as the Parisians. But I couldn't get over the contrast between the two cities. One is classy and sophisticated, the other, well, a bit dumpy.
Then I go home and got all these weird credit card charges from Brussells that I didn't do. Well, can you blame me for feeling this way about it?
The old unkempt buildings near Gare du Midi took me by surprise. It was quite a culture shock having stayed in Paris for a week, and to see a dumpy city.
I like the people though. They are just as friendly and helpful as the Parisians. But I couldn't get over the contrast between the two cities. One is classy and sophisticated, the other, well, a bit dumpy.
Then I go home and got all these weird credit card charges from Brussells that I didn't do. Well, can you blame me for feeling this way about it?
Jul 2nd, 2008, 08:41 AM
#34
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Here's my feeling about it...
If it happens, it happens. There's nothing I can do about it...does that means I am going to use my credit cards less...absolutely not...they're there to be used. As for the person who made a statement about waiting on a queue while somebody used a credit card for a bar of chocolate, the fact is in this modern era a credit card transaction takes less time than a cash transaction...I was at the grocery just today and the cashier rang up the person in front of me and I remember it came to $43.57 so this person first pulls out her pocketbook. looks for her purse, peels off a couple of twenty's and then starts looking for 3 singles, starts going through her purse looking for 57 cents, is short a penny or two, goes back into her walletm, finds another $1 and then and only then the cashier makes change.
My order, whatever it was, swiped the card and within seconds the receipt is printed, sign it and off I am. Which transaction is more efficient????
There are things the American card industry could do but refuses to do. One is to go in the direction of chip and pin but I can guarantee you we will never see chip and pin in the USA in the near future as I am sure they have done studies and found their losses due to fraud are less than it would cost to convert all the cards and terminals to chip and pin.
I always find it funny...when I am in the UK the clerk always checks the signature panel and compares signatures...in the USA almost never (grocery, fast food, swipe the card and sometimes sign, sometimes they don't make you sign especially in fast food places)...chip and pin would cut down a bit on merchants stealing numbers (but won't help too much on internet theft of cc numbers)...
Has happened to me a couple of times...always a couple of phone calls resolved the issue.
What would help in the USA and should be required is that restaurants should be forced to have those portable terminals they have in Europe and bring them to the table rather than disappearing with your card into a backroom where the number (as well as the security code BTW) can be compromised...that is something that State Legislatures should require.
If it happens, it happens. There's nothing I can do about it...does that means I am going to use my credit cards less...absolutely not...they're there to be used. As for the person who made a statement about waiting on a queue while somebody used a credit card for a bar of chocolate, the fact is in this modern era a credit card transaction takes less time than a cash transaction...I was at the grocery just today and the cashier rang up the person in front of me and I remember it came to $43.57 so this person first pulls out her pocketbook. looks for her purse, peels off a couple of twenty's and then starts looking for 3 singles, starts going through her purse looking for 57 cents, is short a penny or two, goes back into her walletm, finds another $1 and then and only then the cashier makes change.
My order, whatever it was, swiped the card and within seconds the receipt is printed, sign it and off I am. Which transaction is more efficient????
There are things the American card industry could do but refuses to do. One is to go in the direction of chip and pin but I can guarantee you we will never see chip and pin in the USA in the near future as I am sure they have done studies and found their losses due to fraud are less than it would cost to convert all the cards and terminals to chip and pin.
I always find it funny...when I am in the UK the clerk always checks the signature panel and compares signatures...in the USA almost never (grocery, fast food, swipe the card and sometimes sign, sometimes they don't make you sign especially in fast food places)...chip and pin would cut down a bit on merchants stealing numbers (but won't help too much on internet theft of cc numbers)...
Has happened to me a couple of times...always a couple of phone calls resolved the issue.
What would help in the USA and should be required is that restaurants should be forced to have those portable terminals they have in Europe and bring them to the table rather than disappearing with your card into a backroom where the number (as well as the security code BTW) can be compromised...that is something that State Legislatures should require.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 08:47 AM
#35
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The Chip and pin setup is no guarantee against CC thievery. Several residents of Maidenhead were recently scammed out of many £ due to card cloners.
http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co....ng-scam-alert/
While scam artists can be found everywhere that you find people with money--cash, checks, credit cards, and in any other form--it's not "common" in western Europe.
http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co....ng-scam-alert/
While scam artists can be found everywhere that you find people with money--cash, checks, credit cards, and in any other form--it's not "common" in western Europe.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 08:50 AM
#36
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xyz, agreed with you on the cash versus cc thing as for the swiftness of a transaction. I'd rather not carry cash either. But the foreign transaction fee is nearly comparable to highway robbery. Ok, a bit of exaggeration there.
But really, because my bank doesn't charge ATM withdrawals, I would prefer to pay with cash. Unfortunately, that evening I checked into a hotel in Brussels, I didn't have cash for 310Euros. The ftf for it was a whopping $14.some change.
After the fraudulent charges episode experience, I am more likely to pay in cash from now on. It's not worth the hassle, despite needing only a "phone call" to fix the problem. I can't use my cc as of now until I get my new card. If I happen to be still staying in Europe at the time, I would have been credit card-less.
Thank goodness for ATM technology! At least I have that option provided I have a deep pocket account in my checking. ;-)
But really, because my bank doesn't charge ATM withdrawals, I would prefer to pay with cash. Unfortunately, that evening I checked into a hotel in Brussels, I didn't have cash for 310Euros. The ftf for it was a whopping $14.some change.
After the fraudulent charges episode experience, I am more likely to pay in cash from now on. It's not worth the hassle, despite needing only a "phone call" to fix the problem. I can't use my cc as of now until I get my new card. If I happen to be still staying in Europe at the time, I would have been credit card-less.
Thank goodness for ATM technology! At least I have that option provided I have a deep pocket account in my checking. ;-)
Jul 2nd, 2008, 09:24 AM
#37
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Foreign transaction fee...no problem...use Capital One...no foreign transaction fee!
Just got back from London last week...made a £20 withdrawal from an ATM on the first day there and still had £8 left at the end of the week..
Credit cards taken everywhere no matter how small...
Fast food places (McDonald's Preat a Manger)
Grocery chains (Tesco, Sainsbury) for things such as sodas, chips whatever for half time at the theatres and for late nights in the hotel..
Dinners (always eat at Japanese restaurants in London, relatively (and I mean relatively) inexpensive...they all take cards.
Theatre tickets
Hotel
London tube station for a 7 day zone 1 & 2 oyster card with £1 on PAYG for the trip on Sunday morning to Heathrow.
About the only places that I couldn't use the cc's and had to pay cash was my daily visit to an internet cafe (£1 for 2 hours) to read the home town newspapers, to catch up on email, to pay my bills, to check my credit card account to see nothing bad was happening) as well as a couple of pints at pubs (although in some of the pubs, they take credit cards for food)
Woud say that on the 7 days I was in London I must have used my card 43 times...far more efficient than cash and you know something...nothing untoward happened (not that London is better than any other place of course0 and as noted, one possible source of theft of cc numbers was resolved when in almost every restaurant, when I took out my credit card, they didn't take the credit card but rather brought over that portable terminal, saw it wasn't a chip and pin card so they swiped it right in front of me.
The only bad thing is that in one convenience store in particular, the illiterate clerk kept insisting he had to stick the card into the chip and pin terminal first and then swiped it (which is of course not true) and after several attempts at this, started to rub off the signature panel (unlike the USA, they check signatures in most stores in London)...
Believe me, the thought that maybe my card could be compromised would not stop me from living in this 21st century way!
Just got back from London last week...made a £20 withdrawal from an ATM on the first day there and still had £8 left at the end of the week..
Credit cards taken everywhere no matter how small...
Fast food places (McDonald's Preat a Manger)
Grocery chains (Tesco, Sainsbury) for things such as sodas, chips whatever for half time at the theatres and for late nights in the hotel..
Dinners (always eat at Japanese restaurants in London, relatively (and I mean relatively) inexpensive...they all take cards.
Theatre tickets
Hotel
London tube station for a 7 day zone 1 & 2 oyster card with £1 on PAYG for the trip on Sunday morning to Heathrow.
About the only places that I couldn't use the cc's and had to pay cash was my daily visit to an internet cafe (£1 for 2 hours) to read the home town newspapers, to catch up on email, to pay my bills, to check my credit card account to see nothing bad was happening) as well as a couple of pints at pubs (although in some of the pubs, they take credit cards for food)
Woud say that on the 7 days I was in London I must have used my card 43 times...far more efficient than cash and you know something...nothing untoward happened (not that London is better than any other place of course0 and as noted, one possible source of theft of cc numbers was resolved when in almost every restaurant, when I took out my credit card, they didn't take the credit card but rather brought over that portable terminal, saw it wasn't a chip and pin card so they swiped it right in front of me.
The only bad thing is that in one convenience store in particular, the illiterate clerk kept insisting he had to stick the card into the chip and pin terminal first and then swiped it (which is of course not true) and after several attempts at this, started to rub off the signature panel (unlike the USA, they check signatures in most stores in London)...
Believe me, the thought that maybe my card could be compromised would not stop me from living in this 21st century way!
Jul 2nd, 2008, 09:29 AM
#38
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Have been to europe 70+ times between vacation and business and used crdit cards for everything I could most trips.
Have never had any sort of a problem.
But have - twice - had problems with card info being stolen in the US - once recently from an internet purchase - and once at least 10 yers ago - apparently from a copy of one of my receipts at a restaurant.
It can happen anywhere.
Have never had any sort of a problem.
But have - twice - had problems with card info being stolen in the US - once recently from an internet purchase - and once at least 10 yers ago - apparently from a copy of one of my receipts at a restaurant.
It can happen anywhere.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 10:13 AM
#39
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I have never had a CC problem until just a couple weeks ago, actually, and I've had several continually for about 30 years.
There weren't any fraudulent charges because my issuer (Capitol One) called me just while they were being attempted and refused them, or something like that. My card wasn't stolen and I am not sure if someone got my number from a place I've used it in real life or online or not. In fact, they called because someone was trying to use the number online at various websites (Paypal, etc) all within a few minutes, and for bizarre charges--like one cent or 50 cents. So they asked me if I were trying to make those charges within the last few hours and I said no, I haven't used my card at all for over 24 hours. So they said they had to cancel the CC and would send me a new one in 5-7 days, which they did.
I have no idea what happened, but Capitol One said a lot of time, they are really just typing in random digits online and waiting to see which ones work, and it could have been that -- and that's why they were trying repeatedly small trivial amounts. This didn't really make any sense to me (as it is what alerted them, as well as many a lot within a short time of each other), as if it isn't your card anyway, why wouldn't you put in some realistic amount like $10 at least, so it wouldn't look so strange. After all, it wasn't their money if it worked.
I hadn't even used my card that much in the last week, only normal things like a chain grocery store, and perhaps some online purchases, but to big, normal secure websites (like Amazon). So I do think the random punching of digits could have been what was happening, I'll never know. With most CCs, the first digits are standard for the issuer, so you'd only have to have some random dialer for part of the digits.
There weren't any fraudulent charges because my issuer (Capitol One) called me just while they were being attempted and refused them, or something like that. My card wasn't stolen and I am not sure if someone got my number from a place I've used it in real life or online or not. In fact, they called because someone was trying to use the number online at various websites (Paypal, etc) all within a few minutes, and for bizarre charges--like one cent or 50 cents. So they asked me if I were trying to make those charges within the last few hours and I said no, I haven't used my card at all for over 24 hours. So they said they had to cancel the CC and would send me a new one in 5-7 days, which they did.
I have no idea what happened, but Capitol One said a lot of time, they are really just typing in random digits online and waiting to see which ones work, and it could have been that -- and that's why they were trying repeatedly small trivial amounts. This didn't really make any sense to me (as it is what alerted them, as well as many a lot within a short time of each other), as if it isn't your card anyway, why wouldn't you put in some realistic amount like $10 at least, so it wouldn't look so strange. After all, it wasn't their money if it worked.
I hadn't even used my card that much in the last week, only normal things like a chain grocery store, and perhaps some online purchases, but to big, normal secure websites (like Amazon). So I do think the random punching of digits could have been what was happening, I'll never know. With most CCs, the first digits are standard for the issuer, so you'd only have to have some random dialer for part of the digits.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:10 PM
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We just returned from a trip in Europe; Amsterdam to Budapest and many spots in-between. This is probably our 10th trip somehwhere in Europe, and more weeks than I can count. Never a CC problem. My greater concern is the fee charged by my CC companies, so this trip got enough Euros--ouch--to only use the cards twice the whole trip. The ATM fee is about 1 % lower than the CC fee.
I also notify my CC company and ATM Bank of our travels so they don't cancel on us because of where we are. An ATM card will be canceled the moment you withdraw over the daily limit of your account. You need to know this figure to avoid cancelation.
I also notify my CC company and ATM Bank of our travels so they don't cancel on us because of where we are. An ATM card will be canceled the moment you withdraw over the daily limit of your account. You need to know this figure to avoid cancelation.
