Credit Card Charges
 

A word of caution to those purchasing items in certain stores in Spain, principally "El Corte Ingles", Spain’s largest department store. They have begun the practice of charging your purchases in US Dollars if an American based bank issues your credit card. It’s quite possibly the same if you are from any non-EU currency country. The rate of exchange is about 4.5% above the official exchange rate. Pay in cash, or ask for the charges to be made in Euors.

Good advice - thanks.

As this topic has not appeared in a while just a couple of reminders:

1. They have no right to charge in any currency other than local currency unless you specifically give permission. They are supposed to ask if you consent to this near criminal rip off before printing the charge slip but they rarely do. They claim, wrong of course, that the statement on the charge slip when you sign saying you consent to imposition of this near criminal rip off is sufficient.

2. If they pull this near criminal act on you, tell them firmly that you do not consent to being ripped off. Tell them to re-write the charge in euro or whatever the local currency is.

They may refuse with such lies as they are required by the credit card company to do so or they are required by their country's laws to do so or that it is too late to undo the charge (every charge can be undone on the terminal) or that the terminal does not allow them to do so (another lie as the terminal specifically asks them if you consent to being ripped off). If the clerk refuses, demand to see the manager.

This practice is a rip off and is designed to extract even more money from your pocket. Besides which, as it is practiced i.e. they don't ask before writing up the charge, it is almost a criminal act and in violation of mastercard and/or visa regulatins which says you must be given a choice before the charge is written up and they are also lieing when they push the button on the terminal asking if you consent to being ripped off without doing so.

I had this happen in Spain in May. According to MasterCard International once your card has been swiped the transaction is finished and you can't force them to rering it. I asked about refusing to sign and MC Int said they don't need your signature. They told me it was up to the consumer to ask before the card is scanned. They also said that the rules in the US are different than the ones overseas. I really need to get the fine print and see if the person I talked to was telling me the truth.

The visa web site makes it very clear that you must be given the choice of refusing to be ripped off by this near criminal activity.

I don't think Mastercard is correct....what if a merchant swipes a card and enters the wrong amount..this has happened countless times and they simply void the transaction and re do it.

The agreement about dcc makes it very clear that before completing the transaction the merchant is asked does the customer wish to be ripped off (not worded that way of course) and when they acknowledge it, if you haven't, they are committing fraud.

If the merchant refuses to do the correct thing, I would write on the charge slip under protest and then I would institute billing error dispute procedures; since they will be unable to furnish a charge slip with your signature, it should be charged back to the merchant.

Did you speak to mastercard international or did you speak to some customer service representative at your mastercard bank, there's a big difference.

This shady business of "doing American tourists a service" by charging them in dollars seems to be a money-making ploy whose time has come. Major business interests with strong lobbying powers, or just plain old ruling establishment power brokers, have seized on this tactic as one which, with the touch of a button or two, turns more profit than the sale of the original service or merchandise.

Given the large number of gullible people out there who really don't understand all this foreign exchange stuff, I can see how it is very lucrative. If a store does $10,000 in business a day in legitimate sales and then can tack another 4.5% on top of it, profits rise nicely. It is almost free money.

In some airport situations, particularly in pre euro days, I was glad to see a place that would accept a variety of currencies. No sense in bringing home $20 worth of a motley collection of 5 European currencies. But in that situation I knew what was going on -- I was paying a premium for exchanging drips and drabs of money that would soon be of no use. A bank would probably have charged me more had it been willing to accept the collection at all. The transaction was carried out with my consent.

On the other hand, these businesses that sock the extra 4% to 5% onto hotel bills that run $800 or more, and do it without informing the customer, do not fit my model of honesty.

This happened to us several times in Ireland last month. We didn't always remember to ask about being charged in euro. At one store, the young clerk told me I wasn't being charged in dollars, it just printed that amount so I would have an idea of the cost. I didn't think she was right, but had already signed before I noticed. We did go back to that store the next day to purchase something else and used cash that time.

At one of our bed and breakfasts, I asked the owner before giving him my charge card. He said he always charged in euro, but told us that he and other business people in Ireland were being pressured to get the new machines that automatically convert to dollars for Americans. He said he refused because he didn't think it was fair to his clientele. At another B and B, where I also asked, she asked us to help her with the machine because it kept converting. After a few minutes of studying it, my husband was able to override it and get the charge in euro.

I think many of the employees don't really understand it and it seems there are a lot of different types of machines out there. Mass confusion.

The first thing you said happened to me in Killarney where the clerk insisted the charge was being written in euro and the US dollar amount was listed as a convenience. I didn't believe him but it was late and I didn't feel like arguing and I knew what I would do if they were pulling this near criminal activity on me.

Guess what..when the charge came through it came through in USD at the inflated rate ripping me off. I immediately e mailed the merchant telling them in no uncertain terms they had best reverse the charge and re-submit it in euro or else I would report them to the Better Business Bureau of Ireland or whatever it is called plus I would institute billing dispute procedures with visa; I also asked the clerk who had lied be reprimanded.

Well I don't know if they did this (he was probably doing what he had been told to do and that 99% of suckers would put up with this garbage and not make a stink about it) but it is funny; they immediately credited my account for the dollar amount and re-submitted it in euro and I save over 4%...

As I say, my name is Tucker not Sucker.

I spoke to MC Int and filed a complaint against H10 Hotels and have a file # for the ongoing investigation. H10 refused to rering the transaction. I asked MC INT about refusing to sign and they said the transaction in Europe goes through the minute the card is swiped. In the US you can refuse to sign and insist the transaction be voided but not international according to MC INT. I also intended to report it to my CU that issued the card but haven't been able to catch the person in that I need to talk with.

It's quite possible that I could call back and get a different rep with MC INT and be told something entirely different. Maybe I should try that and see what happens.

MC INT did say that it is against their agreement with the businesses but would not tell me what they do to a violator in the investigation. I seriously doubt they will do anything. What do they care if I am ripped off? I'm sure they would rather have the hotel chain using their cards than losing me as a customer.

Lara,

I realize that you used a MasterCard in Spain but the following information might be interesting to you.

VISA 's FAQ's state that merchants using Dynamic Currency Conversion are required to provide the consumer with a meaningful choice at the point of sale and that the consumer has the right to purchase in the local currency.
http://www.corporate.visa.com/pd/con...x_faq.jsp#faq5

I took a look at MasterCard's web site for FAQ's about their merchant requirements for Dynamic Currency Conversion. There's a search function on the site and I tried searching for "Dynamic Currency Conversion" , "DCC", and "foreign currency". I came up with nada. If that information is spelled out on the site, I can't find it.
I find it incomprehensible that MasterCard doesn't present its cardholders with this kind of information yet allows its merchants to engage in Dynamic Conversion and then allows the merchant get away with putting the responsibility to be charged in the local ( and legal!) currency on the consumer.

Please let us know what you find out when you talk to a different MasterCard rep.
I certainly would ask the rep to point out where the DCC FAQ's are presented online or if/when that information was mailed to consumers.
I also would ask what recourse a consumer has, when traveling internationally, if a MasterCard slip has been accidentally been rung up in the wrong amount. The first MasterCard rep seems to have asserted that an international credit slip cannot be voided. I wonder just how quickly the international merchant would re-ring that charge if the error were in your favor? :-D

Hi Judy! I had searched the MC Int website earlier also for dynamic cc and as you know nothing popped up. The reason I have this particular card is my credit union has better rates than other banks. My other Spain charges had NO hidden or extra fees. I received the exact interbank rates as listed on Oanda rates history for the days I charged things. I checked all of this when I received my bill because so many people were talking about fees associated with various cards. This one particular transaction cost me less than $10 compared to the rate I should have received. I decided to file a complaint anyway even though I don't expect any money back. I figured if enough people complain the credit card companies may eventually do something to correct this ripoff.

Has anyone experienced DCC in Scotland?
We're planning a two week trip there at the end of August and I'm wondering if this is something we should look out for.

Thanks.

"the transaction in Europe goes through the minute the card is swiped. In the US you can refuse to sign and insist the transaction be voided but not international according to MC INT" - this is scary! (guess which card I have!)

thank you Robert for starting this thread and Bourbon and Spinners for research and warning!

I simply don't believe it....there has to be a way of voiding a transaction if the clerk enters the wrong amount and it has to have happened....

I agree, what if you bought an item and returned it. They would have to do the credit transaction. ((b))

Yes, it is getting more common in Scotland. One of the woollen shops actually had a sign informing customers of this, but in their favour they clearly stated that the customer had a final say in this. It's unlikely in supermarkets, but in places popular with tourists such as hotels, restaurants, car rental desks and souvenir shops you should look out for DCC and inisit on being charged in pounds.

Yes, I think the merchant can choose to void a transaction if they want. The problem is they don't want to and the money has essentially changed hands (or accounts) once the card is swiped. So if you refuse to sign and they refuse to issue a credit they have your money. I'll contact MC INT again because they wanted my cc transaction number and I hadn't received my bill when I filed the complaint.

I also sent an e-mail complaint to H10 Hotels but didn't get a response.

I didn't think MC INT's solution to ask first was very helpful. I had no clue I needed to ask months before when I booked my hotel what currency they were going to use.

Here are my cc charges from my statement for 3 charges all on 5/28/05.

22.95E = $28.84
22.75E = $28.59
273E = $352.35 (DCC)

These were charged 5/28 and posted 5/31.

The FX history from Oanda for those dates were:
5/28 1.25820
5/29 1.2580
5/30 1.25570
5/31 1.24740

As you can see (or do the math) I received a rate of 1.2906593 for the DCC but the other 2 non-DCC charges were at the 1.25 rate. As you can see my cc didn't tack on any fees.

I don't really want to start carrying wads of cash around but it might come to that.

If they want to bill you in dollars, then tell them to forget about the credit card and pull out a wad of USD one dollar bills and try to pay with that. See what response you get.

Alec, thanks for the info.

Bubba2

>Author: xyz123

>I simply don't believe it....there has to be a way of voiding a transaction if the clerk enters the wrong amount and it has to have happened....

Of course the transaction can be voided. I had a store in London try DCC on me. I told the clerk to cancel and re-ring it in GBP. He tried all the standard excuses, so I said "Give me the CC slip."

In the signature block I wrote "TRANSACTION VOID."
I put a big "X" through the "I agree ..." gibberish and wrote "I DO NOT AGREE."
I gave it back to him and said "Void the transaction," which seeing that it'd be hard to get to keep my money with that written on the charge slip, he did.

Let's cut right to the chase so everybody reading this understands once and for all as dcc is a growing cancer.

Many cc processors are pushing their customers, the merchants, to go into this. They try to explain this is a service to the customers as they will know the exact amount being charged at a "competitive rate" and of course it is great for the merchant as they get a piece of the cc transaction action.

But...

Be aware if you see a US dollar amount on a charge slip the merchant has just committed a violation of his or her credit card agreement as they have to push a button on the terminal indicating you have agreed to this rip off which means they are supposed to ask you before pushing the button.

If they don't, you tell them you want the charge voided and re-written in local currency. Tell them they have violated mc/visa procedures and you will not sign the slip. They may try every excuse under the sun like:

1. The law of our country requires charges on American cards be written in American currency.

2. This is required by the credit card processor.

3. The amount on the slip is just for guidance it is not necessarily what you will be billed.

4. We cannot void the transaction.

5. Why don't you want us to do this for you as your credit card company charges a fee for foreign transactions (of course the merchant charges more)..

If none of this works simply write on the charge slip dcc declined and do not sign the slip. Insist on speaking to the manager but under no circumstancs can they force you to accept this near criminal rip off.

At the heart of this whole matter is the fact that Mastercard is simply an organization that allows approved banks and other financial institutions to issue credit cards using its name. The processing is done by the individual banks (or sometimes a third source as a clearing house). Since MC only approves one card to every three approved by Visa, the temptation is strong to give access to 'free money' to their issuers and processors. The credit card associations do not sell software and pos terminals driven by the software to stores and businesses. They just approve it for use just as they approve cc makers for manufacture. The associations have well constructed rules which do not always provide painless or inexpensive credit card use. Does toothless tigercome to mind?