College Student needs help with train travel
 

In about a month I will be going to Europe for a month with my dad. I am in charge of booking all the trains that we are needing to take and I'm worried I won't make the best choices. I'm trying to decide if a pass would be better than buying individual tickets. The following are the cities we will be covering and the order we are covering them:

Paris
Brussels
Brugge
Amsterdam
Berlin
Prague
Vienna
Budapest (flying from Budapest to Zurich)
Zurich
Bern (going back to get a train in Zurich)
Naples
Sorrento
Pompeii
Capri
Bellagio
Milan

I know this is way too many places to cover in just one month, but we're doing it because who knows when I can get back! I would really appreciate any tips or advice you could give me on train schedules and possibly what you would do if you were in this situation. Thank you all so much in advance!

Lucky you. No reason to book any of these. Yours is one of the few cases that makes sense to do with a rail pass. Go to RailSaver.com to see your options.

You do realize that this is a totally silly itinerary? You will have at most 2.5 days at most of your stops, often only two days once you've gotten there. You haven't figured in a moment of spare time for such exciting details as laundry and such inevitable foul-ups as missing a train or encountering a strike (neither of which is rare).

Of particular concern is the jaunt to Naples/Sorrento/Capri - 10-15 hours on a train going from Zurich (overnight is longer but obviously won't burn a day in transit) and 6+ hours on the train back during the day or another overnight, for what - three or four days there? Ugh.

To my mind, you're going about this with the wrong attitude. You're young. Of course you will make it back. Trying to see everything means not really seeing anything. Or maybe you just want to be able to say you have been to all those places - even if you saw practically nothing while you were there.

I think 16 cities in 30 days is total lunacy. You're in college. I seriously doubt this will be the last trip you ever take to Europe. With the schedule you have now, you are flying overseas into Paris and before you even have a chance to get over jet lag, you are on your way to Brussels?

If you still insist this is your itinerary and you want to compare costs for rail travel, look up the cost of individual point to point tickets, add them all up and then compare it to the cost of a pass.

I'd also seriously suggest you look into the amount of time it takes to get to each of these cities via train (in addition to the extra time you need to tack on just to pack up and get over to the train station and check in/board). This is all time being cut from what little sightseeing time you are currently giving yourself because you are pacing yourself like your a contestant on "The Amazing Race".

Slow down and enjoy your time in Europe, or you'll come back tired and not even sure of what you actually saw as it will all just be one big blur.

This itinerary is a train wreck looking for a place to happen.
You need about 4 to 5 days each in Paris, Berlin, and Vienna.

You will lose the equal of about 5 or 6 days just in train travel time.

More lunacy. You are going all the way to Naples and not seeing Rome?

The train trip from Zürich to Naples is 10 and a half hours alone!!

Amsterdam - Berlin is over 6 hours.

I have a hunch you never had a course in geography.

First, I agree about trimming down your plan. Visit fewer cities and enjoy them more.

Go to BudgetEuropeTravel.com. They have an 800 number in the States, and they are exceptionally helpful in deciding the best train routes, and in what order you can visit cities.

You can buy your tickets through them, with a small S&H fee, if you want to have them in hand in advance.
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It is possible to do a pace like this for a shorter amount of time (say 2 weeks) if you really only want to see the main sights in each city, but it's not advisable, and trying to keep that pace for a month is next to impossible - you will get extremely exhausted and everything will just start to blur together.

Having said that, I just want to say that I'm sure you're a smart person who knows your geography - you probably just haven't travelled a lot. Do not take Bob's comments personally - those who have travelled a lot and settled into their travel style sometimes forget what it was like planning that first trip.

Cut back by a couple cities at least, and maybe start looking at overnight trains and/or cheap flights to minimize transfer times - for a list of budget airlines flying between specific city combinations check out www.whichbudget.com

Good luck!

I too would cut down the number of places you plan to visit. If you find you have any spare time or energy (unlikely) you can always add day trips from one of several bases.
I would decide on what you absolutely have to see and take it from there.
I suggest you allow 2 weeks for Italy at the end of the trip. If you use Sorrento for a base for a week or so, you will be able to visit Pompeii, Sorrento and Naples from there. If you find you have any spare time there are a lot of other places well worth visiting in the area. Then, I would use Bellagio as a base for a few days before Milan and fly back from there.
For the first part of the trip, you should plan on 4 or possibly 5 cities maximum. This way, you will have some time to actually see and enjoy the places you are visiting.
Finally, don't unde4restimate jet lag. It takes a lot of people a few days to even feel like seeing anything.

Hi AH,

>I know this is way too many places to cover in just one month, but we're doing it because who knows when I can get back!

You will have about 50 years in which to get back.

A: Each time you change venues, you lose at least 1/2 day.

At least 1/4 of your visit is taken up moving from place to place.

B: You are going to exhaust yourself and kill your father with that itinerary.

C: You will not remember very much of that whirlwind tour.

I urge you to rethink this. 7 major venues is more than enough.

((I))

I'm one of the few people here who will say 'go for it' when people want to whip around at a high rate of knots - but even I'd draw the line and trying to do it for a whole month. There is a big difference between a very intense fortnight and a very intense month. I think you and your dad will end up in a complete state if you try to do this and you won't really enjoy it at the end.

Half the number of stops and you'll still see a lot of Europe, it'll still be a busy month, but you won't be dropping with exhaustion/sick to death of yet another train station/unpacking and packing/transit 'fever'.

<i>I know this is way too many places to cover in just one month, but we're doing it because who knows when I can get back!</i>

Ash,

I hear this exact line from EVERY first timer 20 something - about 30 times total. It has NEVER turned out to be the case. Each and every one them returned to Europe within 5-10 years. It's not that I don't believe you - I know you THINK tyou won't be back, but my decades of experience just doesn't square with your worries.

I would rethink your itinerary based on the assumption that you WILL return.

You are not &quot;covering&quot; these cities. you are running from place to place in a ridiculous blur. Please reconsider. On second thought, I dare you to do it and beg you to post a trip report when you return.

that is not a plan - it is a check list

Paris - check
Brussels - check
etc etc.

We are not trying to be rude or rain on your parade, we are trying to help -- but in ALL honesty, this itinerary is insane.

You don't just magically get from one city to the next. W/ checking in/out, getting to/from the stations/airport, and figuring out &quot;<i>where the heck are we today?</i>&quot;, you will lose the most part of a day every time you move to a new city.

Many first timers think they will see more if they go more places. The opposite is true. You end up seeing a lot less because you spend so much time traveling/acclimating to the next place.

Cut your list in 1/2 - it will still be awfully hectic, but at least doable.

Okay - I'll try to be a little more helpful than joining the bandwagon of &quot;TOO MUCH&quot;! I will attempt to answer your question regarding train tickets/railpass.

But before I begin, I have to agree with others that this is close to insanity. Running around like this for 2 weeks is do-able for someone in their early 20s. Doing this for 4 weeks is impossible for anyone. Doing this when you're in your 40s or 50s (which is the age I assume your dad is) would be disastrous. Your dad may never want to talk to you ever again!

What I'd propose is:
CUT out Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Budapest.

So you'll have:
Paris
Brussels
Brugge
Amsterdam
Zurich
Bern
Italy (yadi yadi yada)

In this case, you may be better off just buying point-point tickets for most of these trips, but may be worthwhile to look into a Railpass for Italy alone.

For Paris-Brussels and Brugge-Amsterdam, you may still be able to get some discounted tickets on Thalys, though the cheapest tix may be gone by now since you're leaving in ONE month.

You didn't say how old you are, but I assume you may qualify for some discounts (in certain countries) if you're under 26.

OP - Sounds like my first Eurailpass trip as a 20 yr old student, only at a snail's pass compared to mine

AND I LOVED IT

PalenQ, were you traveling with your Dad for a month at that pace? It can be fun for a twenty-something to get caught up in the whirlwind of visiting all these 'exotic' cities. A much different thing for a 50-something parent.

My daughter and I traveled for 15 nights in Italy in 2006. She had studied there that semester. I told her to pick her favorite places she wanted to show me, but I wouldn't do less than a three-night stay.

Our itinerary worked great, with three nights each: Rome, Florence, Venice, Santa Margherita Ligure (Italian coast) and Nice (French Riviera).

So, using that formula, you could easily visit 10 places, if you plan your travel route strategically. Go to the rail sites and print out the train routes, first of all. Get familiar with them, and the travel distances between places. Make a rough outline of your itinerary (and include travel time in your daily schedule).

Look at it from the viewpoint of your Dad. Think of the time-of-day you will be arriving in cities, because that makes a difference (especially regarding checking in to hotels). Add up how much time free daytime and nighttime you'll have, hours the museums are open or other must-sees, meal times, etc. Include extra time for goofing around on your own and relaxing with your Dad.

Setting the train schedule is a BIG, and an important, job. I still suggest you use BudgetEuropeTravel.com to be totally foolproof. They really know the routes and how much time they take, and which are the least traveled, etc. They are good tour guides.

That way, you won't have to spend time figuring out purchases and buying tickets as you go. It's a time-saver, not much more expensive, and takes the stress out of it while you're there.

I would personally take out Zurich and Bern on the suggested list above. I'd focus more efficiently on Italy. The French or Italian Riviera would be a nice option. I wouldn't spend time in both Brugges and Brussels. Amsterdam is wonderful for a few nights. Choose Budapest OR Prague. What about the Alps and/or the Riviera, instead of all the big cities?

Just call BETS. They will answer your questions and Bob there is particularly helpful. I have used them myself for two European trips, so can vouch for them. Lots of fodorites like BETS.

Good luck.
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Mambo - thanks for reminding me to read the post carefully - i missed the Dad and thought that it was a college student or students

i was remiss to not read more than the headline

no with my Dad i would certainly not do what i did

and i did travel with my parents and it was great, though at a slower pace

and two folks traveling together can get the Eurail saverpasses - two names on one pass at a cheaper rate than individual passes - about 18%

student could get a youthpass for those under 26

and adult a solo adult pass first class only if over 26

but if you average the prices together both can get a first-class Eurail Saverpass in first class at the same price as a single youth and a single adult pass price

and with separate passes the first class Dad pass would have to sit in 2nd class with the 2nd class youth pass rider.

1st class saver is the way to go (if passes are warranted and they seem to be even if the itinerary is cut in half.

Consider overnight trains also to save on hotels and travel times - say board at night in Rome and wake up in Paris, etc.

You are not planning a trip to Europe. You are planning a tour of european train stations - since that is about all that you will see.

I don't wish to be critical - but your itinerary is beyond ridiculous. By the time you eliminate all the time on trains, getting to and fro all those trains stations, finding and then checking into and out of all those different hotels - you will have practically no time to see anything. And what you do see will be a complete blur.

Separately, if there is any sort of strike or work stoppage - quite common in europe - your entire trip will be thrown off - including all of your hotel reservations.

PLease, PLEASE, take a pad an pencil and make a list of each day of your trip. Then go to bahn.de and have a look at the train times/lengths of trip. Also, be aware that passes don;t cover some high speed trains and thre are also additional mandatory reservation fees for some trains, even with a pass. Plus you will be spending a FORTUNE on train fares.

Ash--

I'm also in my twenties and am about to embark on my first 3 week trip through europe. I know exactly how you feel, you think you'll never get to go back!

Think of it this way...if you don't go to all of the places on your list, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK! There's the fun in it.

Take a good look at your list and then really think about each of the places that you REALLY want to visit; try to cut it in half and see what that gives you. I know how hard that is to do...I had A LOT for 3 weeks and we cut ours back greatly!

As for the kind of train tickets, look into a rail pass from Eurail.com there's a bunch of different types that you could choose from. If you're under 26, you can get the youth saver pass (much cheaper!).

Remember you can also start out in Paris and take a plane to the place that's the farthest away and then start your train pass when you leave that city. End your trip in the city that's the furthest away and fly back to your starting point if you're flying out of there. (Hope that made sense!).

Any questions, please feel free to ask!! Hope you have a wonderful trip!

Definitely fly open jaw-- into one city and home from another. Don't waste time backtracking to your arrival city.
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