Classy act by the Palacio Hotel in Estoril, Portugal to counter the actions of the Ugliest Americans I've Met.
Aug 4th, 2003, 10:12 AM
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Classy act by the Palacio Hotel in Estoril, Portugal to counter the actions of the Ugliest Americans I've Met.
We just returned from a 8 days in Portugal and spent the first several at the Palacio, the site for our friends wedding reception on 7/26.
Upon arrival, we noticed several very loud groups of people milling about in the bars, by the pool, and in the lobby. Turns out, the hotel was also being used by H&R Block for about 150 of their mortgage brokers.
After several days of being exposed to their behavior, I can honestly understand why the world views us on an individual level as poorly as they do. Every conversation amongst them involved the entire group talking essentially at the same time, and at maximum volume. (Guess everyone's opinion just had to be heard.)
The night before our friend's wedding, the group in the room next to her decided that it is perfectly acceptable to have a party in your room until 6 a.m. I guess at H&R Block, a request at 3 a.m. (after multiple calls and visits from the hotel management) to please tone down the noise as "My daughter is getting married in the morning" can be met with a "Go F* yourself."
I also guess it acceptable to sort through the bacon, pastries, and fruit with your hands in order to find that perfect piece and to never remove your baseball cap in a formal dining setting. Shouting across the dining room "Hey Bobby, where the hell you going today" is also seen as acceptable behavior. (BTW, in case any H&R Block types are reading this, the shiny little things on the table are called utensils. They are there to help you eat. Believe it or not, you can actually use them to cut food and then pick it up.)
At least in terms of the Europeans at the hotel that weekend, the stereotype of the loud, crude, poorly dressed, vulgar, mostly drunk and uncultured American was definately true.
The hotel showed a great deal of class. At the end of my friends stay, they comped her suite and her parents suite for the combined 6 days they were as an apology for the behavior of their other guests. The day after the en suite late night party, they told this H&R group that they would remove any guest where there are at least 2 attempts to quiet the noise. The next night, they actually threw two of these people out. When H&R Block complained, the hotel offered to return the remainder of their money if they no longer felt comfortable staying there and to help them find another hotel.
I've traveled enough to know that every culture has its flaws and its barbarians. It is unfortunate when you are embarrassed to be an American because a few hundred of us can't seem to move beyond frat house behavior.
Upon arrival, we noticed several very loud groups of people milling about in the bars, by the pool, and in the lobby. Turns out, the hotel was also being used by H&R Block for about 150 of their mortgage brokers.
After several days of being exposed to their behavior, I can honestly understand why the world views us on an individual level as poorly as they do. Every conversation amongst them involved the entire group talking essentially at the same time, and at maximum volume. (Guess everyone's opinion just had to be heard.)
The night before our friend's wedding, the group in the room next to her decided that it is perfectly acceptable to have a party in your room until 6 a.m. I guess at H&R Block, a request at 3 a.m. (after multiple calls and visits from the hotel management) to please tone down the noise as "My daughter is getting married in the morning" can be met with a "Go F* yourself."
I also guess it acceptable to sort through the bacon, pastries, and fruit with your hands in order to find that perfect piece and to never remove your baseball cap in a formal dining setting. Shouting across the dining room "Hey Bobby, where the hell you going today" is also seen as acceptable behavior. (BTW, in case any H&R Block types are reading this, the shiny little things on the table are called utensils. They are there to help you eat. Believe it or not, you can actually use them to cut food and then pick it up.)
At least in terms of the Europeans at the hotel that weekend, the stereotype of the loud, crude, poorly dressed, vulgar, mostly drunk and uncultured American was definately true.
The hotel showed a great deal of class. At the end of my friends stay, they comped her suite and her parents suite for the combined 6 days they were as an apology for the behavior of their other guests. The day after the en suite late night party, they told this H&R group that they would remove any guest where there are at least 2 attempts to quiet the noise. The next night, they actually threw two of these people out. When H&R Block complained, the hotel offered to return the remainder of their money if they no longer felt comfortable staying there and to help them find another hotel.
I've traveled enough to know that every culture has its flaws and its barbarians. It is unfortunate when you are embarrassed to be an American because a few hundred of us can't seem to move beyond frat house behavior.
Aug 4th, 2003, 10:21 AM
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I think what you unfortunately witnessed was the "conventioneer" mentality. It can happen anywhere. We were at the very nice Loews hotel in South Beach Miami and were appalled at the behavior of midddle-aged fraternity boys "enjoying" their reunion.
Aug 4th, 2003, 10:37 AM
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Unfortunately, dln, I have to agree. I went to a business seminar in California several years ago, and my hotel (very very nice hotel) in Long Beach was overflowing with 'conventioneers', as you call them. Same type of behavior.
I'm sorry you had that experience, Ryan, but it's nice that the hotel reacted in a very professional manner and took the feelings of the other hotel guests into account.
Besides the unpleasantness with the H&R Block crowd, how did everything else go for your friends? I hope that they had more positive memories than negative ones.
I'm sorry you had that experience, Ryan, but it's nice that the hotel reacted in a very professional manner and took the feelings of the other hotel guests into account.
Besides the unpleasantness with the H&R Block crowd, how did everything else go for your friends? I hope that they had more positive memories than negative ones.
Aug 4th, 2003, 10:40 AM
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Ryan, if you want to see "cultured" European behavior, I suggest you go to a soccer match! They don't call them hooligans for nothing! I've been on holiday and heard and seen drunk Germans, Scots, Brits and every other nationality you want to mention. It's not just the Americans!
Aug 4th, 2003, 10:54 AM
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I was in Amsterdam the day that the Irish National Football team played the Dutch national team. The whole city was crawling with lowd, obnoxious, rude, and downright scary Irish football fans. These louts would make your hotel crowd look like English butlers. The behavior of this group (H&R Block Mortgage Brokers?) sounds less rowdy than a large group of severly drunk Danes that was on an overnight ferry to Norway.
I don't think Americans have captured the market on boorish behavior.
I don't think Americans have captured the market on boorish behavior.
Aug 4th, 2003, 11:23 AM
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Ryan:
Regardless of their nationality, it sounds like these people where just plain RUDE!
Are you an American? If you are, and if you haven't done it already, I'd go to the H&R block site and send an e-mail letting the corporate office know how terrible their employees were behaving . . . not just to the Portugese owners of this hotel, but to the other AMERICANS (who are, after all, potential customers!).
While the sad truth is they might not care too much how their employees behaved to the Europeans, they might feel differently if you point out that you'd really have to reconsider ever using their services if this is how careless and inconsiderate their employees are.
Jennie
Regardless of their nationality, it sounds like these people where just plain RUDE!
Are you an American? If you are, and if you haven't done it already, I'd go to the H&R block site and send an e-mail letting the corporate office know how terrible their employees were behaving . . . not just to the Portugese owners of this hotel, but to the other AMERICANS (who are, after all, potential customers!).
While the sad truth is they might not care too much how their employees behaved to the Europeans, they might feel differently if you point out that you'd really have to reconsider ever using their services if this is how careless and inconsiderate their employees are.
Jennie
Aug 4th, 2003, 01:39 PM
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Germans and Japanese make the best tourists in the world, according to a global survey of the travel industry released last week.
The online travel service, Expedia.co.uk, sent questionnaires to 17 tourist offices around the world and the results show that overall the Germans were regarded as the best tourists, followed by the Japanese in second place.
The tourist offices, including those based in London, New York, Paris, Bangkok and Sydney, were asked to rank the best-two and worst-two nations in five categories out of a list of 24 countries and points were awarded accordingly.
Overall, the best tourists were Germany (1), Japan (2), while Israel, Ireland (both 22) and Britain (24) came at the bottom of the list.
"The Japanese have a reputation for being polite and respectful and this has been borne out through our research," Dermot Halpin, managing director of Expedia.co.uk, said.
The results for the five categories were as follows:
*Generally best behaved. -Germans (1), Japanese (2), and worst behaved were the British, Italians and Danes.
* Most polite tourists. -Americans (1), Japanese (3), while Britons were judged the rudest, followed by Russians and Canadians.
*Most likely to attempt to speak the local language. -Germans (1), Japanese (4), and those judged to make the least effort were the British.
Chinese tourists fared less well in the survey than the Japanese and were ranked 10th on the "overall best" list along with Thai and Dutch tourists. The Chinese did not feature too positively or negatively in the various criteria but they were judged to be seventh in the best behaviour category.
Top tourists
1st Germans
2nd Japanese
3rd Americans
4th Italians
5th = French, Norwegians, Swedes
17th = Argentines, New Zealanders, Czechs, Finns
21st Indians
22nd = Irish, Israelis
24th British
The online travel service, Expedia.co.uk, sent questionnaires to 17 tourist offices around the world and the results show that overall the Germans were regarded as the best tourists, followed by the Japanese in second place.
The tourist offices, including those based in London, New York, Paris, Bangkok and Sydney, were asked to rank the best-two and worst-two nations in five categories out of a list of 24 countries and points were awarded accordingly.
Overall, the best tourists were Germany (1), Japan (2), while Israel, Ireland (both 22) and Britain (24) came at the bottom of the list.
"The Japanese have a reputation for being polite and respectful and this has been borne out through our research," Dermot Halpin, managing director of Expedia.co.uk, said.
The results for the five categories were as follows:
*Generally best behaved. -Germans (1), Japanese (2), and worst behaved were the British, Italians and Danes.
* Most polite tourists. -Americans (1), Japanese (3), while Britons were judged the rudest, followed by Russians and Canadians.
*Most likely to attempt to speak the local language. -Germans (1), Japanese (4), and those judged to make the least effort were the British.
Chinese tourists fared less well in the survey than the Japanese and were ranked 10th on the "overall best" list along with Thai and Dutch tourists. The Chinese did not feature too positively or negatively in the various criteria but they were judged to be seventh in the best behaviour category.
Top tourists
1st Germans
2nd Japanese
3rd Americans
4th Italians
5th = French, Norwegians, Swedes
17th = Argentines, New Zealanders, Czechs, Finns
21st Indians
22nd = Irish, Israelis
24th British
Aug 4th, 2003, 02:00 PM
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It's interesting that while the people at the hotel didn't extrapolate the behavior of a few obnoxious conventioneers to an entire nation, Ryan didn't hesitate to do so ("I can honestly understand why the world views us on an individual level as poorly as they do"
.
However offended and inconvenienced Ryan was by all of this, the hotel staff was certainly far more troubled and inconvenienced by the misbehavior, and yet, according to Ryan, the staff remained as gracious as humanly possible. They admirably refused to stereotype their visitors and assume that the Americans with the wedding party were no better than the drunken louts who happened to be from the same country.
Stereotypes are reinforced, in part, by selective observations. We are more sensitive to, and more likely to remember, the misbehavior of a group that we disapprove of and expect to behave inappropriately. Had the group in question been from a British or a Portugese company, I doubt that anyone would have felt compelled to post a description of the incident.
.However offended and inconvenienced Ryan was by all of this, the hotel staff was certainly far more troubled and inconvenienced by the misbehavior, and yet, according to Ryan, the staff remained as gracious as humanly possible. They admirably refused to stereotype their visitors and assume that the Americans with the wedding party were no better than the drunken louts who happened to be from the same country.
Stereotypes are reinforced, in part, by selective observations. We are more sensitive to, and more likely to remember, the misbehavior of a group that we disapprove of and expect to behave inappropriately. Had the group in question been from a British or a Portugese company, I doubt that anyone would have felt compelled to post a description of the incident.
Aug 4th, 2003, 02:00 PM
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I think that poll was pretty accurate.
What I find the most offensive is the behavour and treatment of hotel/restaurant/bar staff.
Loud and arrogant, the Brits are about the worst offenders especially in poor treatment of local people, but those from Scandinavia can be pretty bad. It is embarrasing.
I think what the OP experienced would be pretty much the same regardless of nationality.
It may seem real old fashioned but when you travel you 'are' an unofficial Ambassador of your country and your behavour IS noticed by people.
When I am out and about in Bangkok I detest having to go anywhere that attracts tourists as more often than not they are loud, arrogant..you name it!
You can then find totally the opposite in very pleasant, kind and well behaved people, sadly though not that often.
Strange though that such behavour back 'home' would never be tolerated.
What I find the most offensive is the behavour and treatment of hotel/restaurant/bar staff.
Loud and arrogant, the Brits are about the worst offenders especially in poor treatment of local people, but those from Scandinavia can be pretty bad. It is embarrasing.
I think what the OP experienced would be pretty much the same regardless of nationality.
It may seem real old fashioned but when you travel you 'are' an unofficial Ambassador of your country and your behavour IS noticed by people.
When I am out and about in Bangkok I detest having to go anywhere that attracts tourists as more often than not they are loud, arrogant..you name it!
You can then find totally the opposite in very pleasant, kind and well behaved people, sadly though not that often.
Strange though that such behavour back 'home' would never be tolerated.
Aug 4th, 2003, 03:23 PM
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Can you give Ryan a break? He told us about an experience he had in Portugal that involved the boorish behavior of some Americans. Does that necessitate choosing up sides and defending American Tourists? I'm so sick of it. Each time someone criticizes American Tourists out come the "defenders of us all" (even though we didn't ask for it). The last straw was on the thread that was all done in jest until the "great patriots" ruined it.
Aug 4th, 2003, 05:05 PM
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Giovanna, you are absolutely right! It's Ryan's experience. If someone is somewhere and their piers are acting inappropriatly, one is embarrased for them and for themselves...end of story.
(PS...they ruined that thread for me too)
(PS...they ruined that thread for me too)
Aug 4th, 2003, 06:46 PM
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Ryan, what a lousy experience for you and your friends, I'm so sorry.
When friends of mine took a cruise once, they reported that the cruise ship captain took a pre-emptive strike against just this sort of thing happening. On the very first day of sailing, the captain announced that the ship had x number of bars and lounges and party rooms that were in operation 24 hours a day, and thus there was no excuse for any passenger or passengers partying in their cabins, where they would disturb other passengers trying to sleep. This is the kind of proactive management I admire, in which conflicts of interest among patrons are predicted in advance, and planned for in conjunction with the ship or hotel's architects and/or designers.
I also admire restaurants that have the foresight to set aside rooms specifically for group functions, so that the group and individual patrons don't come into conflict.
As for the organizers of conventions, they too would do well to consider the impact their group could have upon the rest of the travelling public, and work in conjunction with hotel managers to try and avoid this kind of conflict.
When friends of mine took a cruise once, they reported that the cruise ship captain took a pre-emptive strike against just this sort of thing happening. On the very first day of sailing, the captain announced that the ship had x number of bars and lounges and party rooms that were in operation 24 hours a day, and thus there was no excuse for any passenger or passengers partying in their cabins, where they would disturb other passengers trying to sleep. This is the kind of proactive management I admire, in which conflicts of interest among patrons are predicted in advance, and planned for in conjunction with the ship or hotel's architects and/or designers.
I also admire restaurants that have the foresight to set aside rooms specifically for group functions, so that the group and individual patrons don't come into conflict.
As for the organizers of conventions, they too would do well to consider the impact their group could have upon the rest of the travelling public, and work in conjunction with hotel managers to try and avoid this kind of conflict.
Aug 5th, 2003, 06:15 AM
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I'm amused by the assertion that "back home that behavior would never be tolerated" and if that means these folks described wouldn't act that same way if they had been staying in an American hotel????..think AGAIN!!! Like they were acting this way because they were in Portugal or because they were tourists...sorry, don't agree..they're probably a bunch of bores no matter where they show up and probably why a lot of people try to avoid "convention hotels." The whole thing is a most unfortunate and embarrassing circumstance...but thinking it is exclusive to European locations is shortsighted.
