Cities, towns, villages, hamlets, etc.--standards?
 

I read so many posts here referring to various towns, and sometimes even small cities, as "villages." Recent ones that come to mind were posts ones in which people called St. Remy and Cortona "villages," when clearly they are not. I think in Italy a village is not a "comune" and does not have its own municipal government and services, and I think in the UK there may be some population standards distinguishing among various categories of municipalities and communities. But I'm not at all sure. Does anyone know whether there are any common international standards re what constitutes a city, a town, a village, and hamlet, and other place labels along the same lines? Or, if there are no common definitions that cross national lines, does anyone know the standards in Italy, in France, in the UK?

I liked a recent daytrip thread from Paris where Lyon was referred to as a "town".

Well, I guess Chicago is merely a "town" too compared to NYC. :-)

"my kind of town, Chicago is..."

"A foggy day, in London town..."

Yes, I remember that one. Someone wanted to stay in a "small town" as a base for day trips to Paris and Nice and was thinking of Lyon as a possibility. (I guess all these places just looked so itty bitty and close together on a map, where the fingers can travel from one city to the next in less than a second.)

I think there are some numerical standards - I recall seeing somewhere that in the US anything above 100,000 is considered a city - although frankly I don;t see how this can be so. (There are about 20,000 people on my BLOCK - and I don;t see how anything under a million can be called a city - but who knows.)

Obviously a lot is perspective - if you have never been to a real city - you may think you live in one even if there are only 50,000 people.

In the US, in many states I think there are statutory standards re what constitutes various categories of municipalities.

I live in a city and usually have, except my home town in Ohio (which is about 15K population now, although even that is sometimes called a city geographically). I don't know if there are any official definitions in the US, I suppose the census bureau might have some. I certainly wouldn't call a city of 75K a town myself, so think it's subjective. I'd probably consider something of about 25K or less a town.

I think one problem is that these are English words, not French, for example. They don't have any different word for city vs. town that I know of -- they are just "ville". A hamlet isn't anything of any consequence administratively or politcally that I know of -- just a small place like the hameau at Versailles. To me, a village is really small, probably less than 10K population, maybe even smaller than that.

I remember looking this up once.
A town is smaller than a city,
a village is smaller than a town.
a hamlet is smaller than a village and a commune is the smallest administrative district in Belguim, France, Italy and Switzerland.

A "comune" is a municipality, with municipal government. It can be big or small. For example even Milan is a comune. A villaggio, I think, is too tiny and/or too insignificant to have its own government services, so it is just a community in a certain defined geographic area, but its government services are provided by a comune. For example, a few years ago I wrote a letter for someone needing info about Villagio Santa Margherita, which wasn't a comune, but was encompassed within Gagliano Castelferrato, in the province of Enna.

sp: villaggio

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Overview for "commune"




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The noun "commune" has 2 senses in WordNet.

1. commune -- (the smallest administrative district of several European countries)
2. commune -- (a body of people or families living together and sharing everything)

I live in a hamlet ('hameau') in France. Administratively, it is part of a village with a population of about 1000, and near a town (Saint-Aignan-sur-Cher) with a population of between 4,000 and 5,000. Saint-Aignan might be called a 'bourg' or a 'bourgade' in French, but it's too big to be called a 'village' -- it has a château, a huge church, banks, insurance agencies, clothing stores, restaurants, hotels, and all sorts of other shops and businesses. And it has a weekly market. My village doesn't have many of those things -- just a general store, a tabac/café, a boulangerie, a barber shop, a library, and a church.

My understanding of the difference between a hamlet and a village is that a village has a church and some shops or other businesses. A hamlet is just a small collection of houses with no church and often no 'commerces'.

The Grand Robert dictionary says that one of the characteristics of a 'ville' is that its inhabitants mostly work within its limits, not outside. I think of a 'ville' having 'quartiers' (neighorhoods) where a village does not (though various hamlets, like mine, might be administratively included in a village).

There are a few 'villes' near here -- Blois (pop. 50,000) and Châteauroux (35,000) are 'petites villes' and Tours (200,000), Orléans (180,000) and Bourges (100,000) are bigger 'villes de province'. Amboise, Vierzon, and Romorantin (pop. between 10,000 and 20,000) are considered 'petites villes' too I think.

In the UK the status of "city" is granted by royal charter and usually refers to somewhere with a cathedral. Hence there are some quite small cities and large towns!

>...in the US anything above 100,000 is considered a city ...<

The City of Madison, GA (pop 3000), The City of Rutledge, GA (pop 1500) and The City of Bostwick, GA (pop 1700), all in Morgan County, GA are administrative units chartered by the State and required to provide certain public services - police, fire department, water and sewage.... - in return for certain privileges - levying taxes, legislating ordinances...

Here in GA, a township is an incorporated area that has fewer requirements and fewer privileges.

A commune is an unincorporated area that is provided certain benefits (police protection) in return for paying increased taxes.

It's not the size, it's the quality that counts. :)

((I))

Well, Ira, if you can get BOTH size and quality in the same package you'll never go back to having just one or the other.

I've been browsing in this forum after a long absence, and again, or still, I'm seeing many posts in which people refer to Italian cities as "villages" when obviously they're not. So, remembering that I'd started a thread on the topic, I thought it might be good to find it and bring it back up.

In Britain, settlements are classified into hamlets, villages, towns and cities.

In other European countries, the hierarchies of settlements are different and, hence, there are no corresponding words for these English terms. This is the hierarchy of settlements in Germany:

- Weiler: A tiny settlement, consisting of a few buildings, usually without services.

- Dorf: A small settlement, usually with a center, marked by a church and a square. In most cases also with one or more stores. No administrative entity.

- Gemeinde: Smallest administrative unit, however not independent, but belonging to a Kreis.

- Stadt: Historically an independent administrative unit with several rights and a city hall (Rathaus). In historical times protected by a circular wall. Rothenburg ob der Tauber is a typical example of medieval Stadt, not a Dorf. This is the hierarchy of Städte:
- Landstadt: population less than 5,000.
- Kleinstadt: pop. 5,000-20,000
- Mittelstadt: pop. 20,000-100,000
- Großstadt: pop. over 100,000

As you see, there is no difference between "town" and "city" in Germany (and from the posts above about Chicago and London, I still do not see any difference in English).

Why are you sweating the small stuff?