Choosing best areas for accommodations
 

My future wife and I are visiting Europe for the first time in June. We have just begun looking for accommodations. I would appreciate your help in choosing the best locations for the hotels. If you can recommend specific hotels, even better. We don't need anything fancy. We are looking for clean, safe and centrally located hotels with private bathrooms. We have a budget of $50 to $80 Dollars (57 to 90 Euros) per night for a double. Our itinerary is as follows:<BR><BR>Barcelona/3 nights<BR>flight to<BR>Amsterdam/3 nights<BR>Paris/4 nights<BR>Montreux/1 night<BR>Murren/2 nights<BR>Luzern/1 night<BR>Lake Como/2 nights<BR>Venice/2 nights<BR>Rome/3 nights<BR>Capri/2 nights<BR>Florence/2 nights<BR>Siena/1 night<BR>Cinque Terre/2 nights<BR>Nice/2 nights<BR><BR>Thank you for your help.

Hi Fred, Your itinerary makes my middle-aged head spin. You must have a lot of energy -- it sounds like a whirlwind trip. I remember taking those myself, and I think that, for the price you have in mind and for the short stays you have in mind, you might want to be adventurous and just arrive at the local tourist office and ask them to find a room for you. That's what I used to do when I was younger. Except maybe the four-night Paris stay. Every major place has a central tourist office that will locate rooms for drop-ins. $50 - $80 for a double with private bath sounds a bit low to me, but I do most of my traveling these days in Switzerland, so I'm out of touch with prices in other places. I know you'll receive a lot of good advice from the folks at this site. I'll be interested to see what they come up with for you. Bon Voyage.

I just commented on a four-stay itinerary (14 nights, all Italy) that others had criticized as too whirlwind - - and I defended the guy.<BR><BR>But I think this is way overboard - - you're doing a terrible injustice to Italy in particular - - seven lodging changes in 14 nights (and just as bad or worse for Switzerland).<BR><BR>I submit that you won't remember 25 to 50% of this trip, so I would make the following suggestions:<BR><BR>cut the trip back to 18 to 22 days - - this will give you more money per location - - 50 to 80 $USD wil leave you hard-pressed to even find DECENT lodging choices in some of the places you want to go.<BR><BR>do some "dollar-cost-averaging" on your lodging by looking into an apartment, gite, villa or other self-catering rental for 7 days - - particularly in Italy. You may be able to make that lodging AVERAGE figure if you have a week in there for $350 or less.<BR><BR>If you stay 7 nights in central Italy, you should NOT plan to spread yourself so distantly - - drop one or two of the following: Lake Como (wonderful - - try to keep!), Venice (also hard to consider dropping), Capri or Cinque Terre.<BR><BR>Perhaps there are reasons for your start and stop points - - but I would have you consider starting and stopping in one country (France?) - - you could make this trip much more affordable if you do a car lease (usual minimum of 17 days), rather than using the trains.<BR><BR>Last of all, I disagree with just showing up in any town. Highly likely to NOT get what you really want, at the best available price.<BR><BR>I'm not trying to send you back to the drawing board at square one entirely (well, yes, I guess I am) - - but I submit that this trip can be improved by some serious re-thinking.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

Fred, I concur with Rex--way too much.<BR>I would drop Amsterdam and Capri from this trip and rethink the rest. You will need reservations at certain key locations in June. I also like the idea of the French leased car for better flexibility in this itinerary. Let me know if you need more help.

Those experienced in travel to Europe reading your post are probably scratching their heads wondering how such a crowded itinerary will work out in practice. Realize this: the biggest hardship in travelling is getting from one place to another. I say you seek some further advice. Less transportation will also leave you a larger budget for accomodations, which I think is needed.

Hehe. I knew I would catch some flack over my itinerary but like jw said this is a whirlwind tour and we both do have a lot of energy. Our plan is to simply get an overview of the different regions and in future trips go back to the places we enjoyed for longer and more in depth stays. This is more of a backpacking trip without the hostels. Having friends who have traveled to Europe before I know there are little family owned gems for as little as $50 to $100 a night. I've been able to find a couple but I need help picking the best location for the rest. Thanks again.

Your most recent posting is puzzling. It appears that you've asked for advice from seasoned travelers but are not prepared to consider it. On that premise, the only suggestion you should probably take is that of "jw" who recommends local tourist information offices as sources for cheap accommodations. Among the things you'll learn from your whirlwind trip are the need for compensating for travel time; the aggravation of packing and unpacking every other night or so; the fact that you'll have little lasting memory of what you saw and where you saw it coupled with little time in which to enjoy the sights and sites.

well I know Paris pretty well and all I can say is that it's really hard for me to give recommendations for someone who just says tell me a hotel with a good room in a certain price range. It's just that there are many hotels in Paris that could fit that; your budget is rather low but certainly possible in Paris -- two in the Marais area come to mind, Grand Hotel Jeanne d'Arc and the Castex -- both are fairly central (4th arr.) and decent although definitely lower end as you'd get in that price range, but I think they do fit your requirements. there are many others, of course. If you want the Latin qtr, how about the Cujas Pantheon near the Sorbonne. Since you are with your wife and not a bunch of slacker guys, I'd also suggest the Hotel du Globe in St-Germain; it's a more romantic budget hotel, great location, very small rooms of course but nice (I think maybe $80). I wouldn't send two backpacking guys there.

Thanks for the info Christina, just what I was looking for. For the rest of you I appreciate your concerns. Like I said are backpacking (packing and unpacking is not an issue) but would rather not stay in hostels. I've already worked out the tranportation including travel time from place to place. Trust me, if we have to cut back we have the flexibility to do so during the trip. We'll be playing it by ear so it's not a concern. I simply wished to know what areas are most convenient to stay in.

Fred,<BR><BR>While I agree with Rex, Bob, & Ron that this itinerary may put you off Europe altogether, I can offer some ideas for your plan . . . <BR><BR>For your Swiss destinations, try these websites: www.room.ch (for budget hotels) and www.bnb.ch (for bed & breakfasts). Sorry, I cannot vouch for either the sites or the rooms you may find.<BR><BR>I do want to add one thing -- on your budget, you probably won't find hotels in good or central locations. You'll probably find yourself on the outskirts of town or away from the attractions. I guess you can turn that into an advantage, using local public transportation and getting to know some locals.<BR><BR>But. Really consider cutting down your plan. You'll probably get to Europe again. And you'll probably *want* to if you enjoy yourself the first time!<BR><BR>s

I put quite a bit of thought into how you could preserve your trip's basic skeleton, improve it and meet your budget requirements.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;little family owned gems for as little as $50 to $100 a night.&gt;&gt;? <BR><BR>I agree that they exist all over Europe - - but the problem is, they are not in the cities you want to visit - - certainly not in Amsterdam, Paris, Lucerne, Venice or Rome. These are all expensive cities. I'm not saying you should cross any of them off of your list - - but you asked for "the best locations", "clean, safe" and "$50 to $80 per night for a double". You're setting yourself up to get deceived if someone tells you can find such places in those cities. Better to raise your budget for 10 to 12 nights of this trip, figure out how to keep your intra-Europe travel costs in line, and reduce your risk of souring your trip, and your relationship with your wife-to-be.<BR><BR>

Fred,<BR><BR>We must have been posting at the same time, and I see that you characterize this as a type of European sampler. I'm glad that you are going to be flexible once you actually hit the road -- don't force yourself to keep to your schedule if you find yourself enchanted want to stay put for a few days! Be sure to come back to this forum when you're back to let us know how it went for you two; let us know what worked and what didn't, etc.<BR><BR>I also thought you might want to check into the hotels that Rick Steves recommends. Go to www.ricksteves.com.<BR><BR>Great luck.<BR><BR>s

I was going to add my 2 cents worth but you seem to be set on this very difficult itinerary. So I just have one comment - you keep repeating this is a backing-type trip. That would indicate you are traveling light - well on this whirlwind trip I don't see one chance to stop a while and even do any laundry. You will spnd 75% of your time traveling, 15% looking for laundromats and 10% actually sightseeing.

This "kid" sounds like he'd do better over on the Lonely Planet website. He's not really looking for advice as much as he's looking for "reaction".<BR><BR>It looks to me like he already knows what he wants to do anyway. So don't waste your energy or your breath on this post.

This "kid" gets the message. I asked a simple question. Sorry if my travel plans offend some of you. Mia Culpa Mia Culpa. Tell you what, from now on I'll let others do my traveling for me. While I'm at it I'll just lock myself in my apartment. God forbid I go anywhere and explore and discover on my own terms. Thank you to those who tried to help without preaching. I'm packing my backpack after only 2 days and going back to Lonely Planet hehe. Who says theres a generation gap?

If you ask a question, expect a response. You got it.

I'm glad you have a lot of energy, because just thinking about your trip is exhausting me. I know that you said you have considered travel time, but it looks like most of this trip is going to be spent in the train stations and on the trains looking out the windows -- at least it will be scenic. Even with your itinerary this trip is going to be expensive, just because of the transportation, and I'm assuming that you will be purchasing a Eurail pass. Also, it looks like you're purchasing a open-jaw ticket for your flights across the pond, which has got to be ungodly expensive. If I can give you any advice, it would be to fly in and out of the same city to reduce your costs and add that amount of money to your hotel budget. Am I right that you will be in Europe for 30 nights? If that's the case, and you saying that you just want to sample the areas, I don't think you will even recall where you have been, so take a lot of pictures. Possibly you could look over your itinerary and pick locations that are easy day trips from a particular city. At least you would cut down on the travel time and the minor packing and unpacking of your back packs. Also, you may be able to find cheaper accommodations closer to the train stations in each of the cities that you are going to. And while you are looking your itinerary over, remember Murphy's Law, because something is going to get screwed up with so many legs to a trip in such a short time.<BR><BR>Good luck and happy travels.

Me again. Fred, your postings really take me back to my younger days, and because that was so long ago, I'm not sure if any of my comments are relevant. But I'll mention just two more things. The year we used the local tourist offices to find rooms (we were adjusting our itinerary day by day, often switching from cities to small towns -- and that flexibility was a pleasure that I do sort of miss--), we were directed mostly to private homes, and there was no private bath, ever. One of my fondest stops was in Berchtesgaden, where the TO found us a room at the little Haus Alpina. Our room was freezing in June and the shower was way downstairs in what seemed like a basement, and it had a timer on it so you had let's say five minutes tops in and out. But we stayed 4 nights and absolutely loved it. The second memory is that often the place-to-stay was quite a long walk from the tourist office. We were always given a map, but once or twice we gave up before we reached our destination and returned to the train station. I guess that brings me to a third memory -- several times we used our railpass to sleep on the train; we sort of zig-zagged across Europe to make the night-train routes last long enough to get 6 or so hours sleep. We were pretty tired, but it did stretch our budget. You know, I don't know if anyone travels like this anymore; maybe you will find more helpful advice in "Let's Go Europe" -- (my bible was "Europe on $5 a Day"--can you believe it?) Please return to this site and let us old folks know how your adventure turns out. J.

Fred, I disagree with some of the feedback given to you here. IMHO arriving in each town with such limited time in the high season to look for an inexpensive hotel room with charm and a private bathroom is a mistake. Definitely spend the $$ on international faxes and make advance reservations.<BR><BR>There's a lot of feedback on this forum on inexpensive hotels. Try searching using the following keywords:<BR><BR>budget hotels Paris<BR>inexpensive hotels Rome<BR>etc.<BR><BR>Also, budget travel guides such as Rough Guides, Let's Go and Lonely Planet have many listings on inexpensive hotels (besides the usual hostels), and they will indicate which hotels have rooms with private bathrooms.<BR><BR>Finally www.eurotrip.com has some hotels/hostels reviews and a message board for cheap hotels. Good luck!

I think this trip as described by Freddy is in serious need of revision because (1) it sounds to me like he is spending too much time in any one place, (2) there is no need for so many hotel nights because night trains provide transportation and sleeping facilities, and (3)the important cities that are omitted from the plans need to be considered. Madrid, London, Prague, Berlin, Copenhagen, Vienna, Salzburg, Munich, and Budapest are all missing. Otherwise there are serious deficiences in cultural, linguistic, economic and geographic balance. <BR><BR>As it now stands the trip is omitting cental and northern Europe. There is an overbalance in romance language nations.<BR>And the trip is confined to nations with in the euro currency zone. <BR><BR>As we veteran travelers all know, unbalanced trips have a way of warping the psyche and creating false impressions in our view of Europe. <BR>This trip is not going to yield the kind of broad cultural experience and satisfy his inquiring instincts without alternation. <BR> <BR>As it stands, Freddy is spending too long in Barcelona, Amsterdam, Rome, and Paris thus depriving himself of many other fascinating places. Given his energy level, he could pack his jogging shoes and scout out Paris and Rome in two days each, particularly if he keeps out of those huge time sinks like the Louvre. Those art galleries are nothing but big buildings full of gawking people and pictures that all look alike after the first 50 of them.<BR><BR>Barcelona is worth a good day tour, then an overnight flight to Amsterdam should enable considerable time savings.<BR>The time at several smaller attractions can be cut from two nights to one night, or eliminated all together. For example, Lake Como, Florence and Capri could be cut to one night each. Montreux could be cut out entirely by going directly to M&uuml;rren where the scenery is much better. But even time in Murren can be trimmed and spent elsewhere. A lake is a lake, and the Jungfrau is worth looking at just long enough to get the camera focused, then it is time to move on. All of these alterations in schedule would allow time for places like Vienna, Salzburg and Munich. <BR><BR>Between Barcelona and Amsterdam, I think 2 days could be cut from the schedule. So from Amsterdam, why not London for 2 nights, then Paris?<BR><BR>By including London, Prague, Budapest and Vienna, the tour could then include both English and German speaking countries and, more importantly, enable him to sample 4 non euro economies divided between western Europe and central Europe. (England, Switzerland, Czech Republic, and Hungary being the non euro nations.) <BR> <BR>Also, I think too much time is being spent in hotels. Why not take overnight trains, like from Paris to Florence, and that way you could gain extra sightseeing hours. <BR><BR>Also, if he sleeps on the train, he can cover more ground. Young people with energy should not need more than 6 hours of sleep each night, nor is a bed required. I don't think there is a need to find laundromats, which will result in additional time savings. Wash out a little each night and hang it on the towel rack or curtain rod. Or do what I used to do, take along a little laundry detergent, about 7 feet of heavy string, 4 or 5 clothes pins, and improvise a clothes line. I once took a 7 week trip around Europe and never used a laundromat.<BR><BR>I think all of these suggested time revisions, when taken in the aggregate, will yield positive benefits in terms of variety, cultural, linguistic, and geographic balance and yield a trip that broadens the mind significantly.<BR><BR>I do have one other suggestion. If Freddy can find a small dry erase board and pen, he might want to take them along. Each time he arrives in a new place, he can write the name of the place on the board and hold it up in the first photograph. That way he will know where he has been.<BR> <BR><BR><BR>

Fred, I forgot to mention that there's a series of books for France, Spain Britain, and Italy which focus on hotels with private baths that are $50-99 per night. The guides are called Hello Italy, Hello France, etc.<BR><BR>Right now you can get the (old) edition of Italy for free and the new Spain and France editions at a 35% discount when you go to the website www.helloeurope.com and click on the journeywoman promotion. I just received the Italy guide and it divides hotels according to areas, with a brief introduction of the areas. (For example, Siena has a list of hotels around the Campo, the center of Siena).

Fred--try Hotel du Dragon in Paris. I found it in the Frommer's $ per day guide and faxed for reservations. It's in the 6th arr., near St. Germain des Pres, one of the finest neighborhoods. The rooms are clean, big, and have private baths--no lift. We stayed in Aril 2000 for about $85 per night. I would gladly return. I also think you're trying to do too much in too short a time, but only you can set your goals for a trip. If a taste is all you are looking for, then you can go back later. Barb

Fred, my wife and I did something like that for our honeymoon except we didnt cross as many borders. We toured Paris and Italy in 21 days and we didn't feel it was rushed. My itineary was:<BR><BR>Paris (3N) <BR>- night train to Venice on 4N.<BR>Venice (2N)seeing Murano and Burano too.<BR>Milan(1N, just as a rest stopover)<BR>Monterosso(2N)seeing Vernassa,Portofino and Santa Magherita on day trips.<BR>Florence (4N) seeing Pisa on a one day trip,San Giminagno & Siena the other.<BR>Assisi (2N)<BR>Capri(2N)<BR>Sorrento(2N)seeing Pompeii and driving thru the entire Amalfi coast.<BR>Rome (3N)<BR><BR>How did we not feel tired?<BR>1. Rent a car. Time spent waiting for public t'port is most tiring.With a car you can stop and go as you wish.<BR>2. Have a flexible itineary. If you like a place stay longer, if you don't, move on.<BR>3. Don't have to see everything.Even in the Louvre we only saw the things we wanted to see (classical paintings) skipping the lesser known sculptures and fabrics.<BR>4. Dont do two big cities back-to-back.The small towns gave us the break to recuperate and plan for the days ahead.<BR>5. Use a city as a base. We used Florence as a base to see Tuscany. This way we don't have to pack and unpack, check-in and out so often.<BR><BR>However $50-80 is not enough in the big cities. You could stinge on the smaller cities but US$100 is the min to spend in the big cities such as Paris,Venice, Rome. We did that and we still got lousy rooms with no a/c and shabby toilets in Rome. We traveled in Oct, which is not as expensive as June.<BR><BR>Best rates we got was from the tourist office arriving after noon as the hotels would just want to sell their otherwise empty room. To travel in June w/o booking is risky tho.<BR><BR>Enjoy yourself!<BR>

Fred, it is possible that by including information on the amount of time that you are spending in each place, not to mention the order in which you are visiting these places, that this is why people are treating your question as an itinerary question, rather than a hotel question. <BR><BR>I note you have included 3 countries in Southern Europe (Spain, Italy) and three in Northern Europe (the Netherlands, France, Switzerland.) Of the 14 places you plan to visit, 7 are major cities, 3 are smaller cities/towns, and 4 are small village areas in the country. <BR><BR>This is how I'd start thinking about planning location, and also budget. Try breaking down your query into smaller bite sized pieces - you may then find the answers you get are a bit more in tune with your needs. For example, a discussion of what is the best location in any of the cities is a thread in itself. <BR><BR>Bonne voyage. <BR>

&lt;&lt;Also, it looks like you're purchasing a open-jaw ticket for your flights across the pond, which has got to be ungodly expensive.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>I suppose that "Fred" has already long gone - - deciding not to come back and read any more of this thread.<BR><BR>Still, I wanted to address this statement made earlier by Leslie - - and this is NOT an attempt to stir up any old friction with you, Leslie.<BR><BR>Open-jaw transatlantic ticketing is often a very INexpensive way to plan travel to Europe. When it makes sense to complete a circle, then you shouldn't feel like it's a mistake to do so. But often it is more economical to travel in a line, arc or zigzag and yes - - do plan on an open-jaw ticket being cheaper that returning to your point of entry into Europe.<BR><BR>Just for instance, we'll use Columbus (Ohio) - - my "home" airport as the origination, and June 4 to 18, arbitrarily as the desired dates of travel:<BR><BR>All of the following are the best published fares on www.orbitz.com excluding their service charges(s)<BR><BR>CMH-BCN, NCE-CMH = $1016<BR>CMH-BCN, BCN-CMH = $961<BR>CMH-NCE, NCE-CMH = $971<BR><BR>So the open-jaw adds less than it would cost to "close the loop".<BR><BR>I'm sure there will be much, much cheaper fares in June from Columbus to relevant destinations on Fred's route than these fares. But that's what Orbitz quotes today.<BR><BR>For what it's worth, the implosion of Sabena airlines takes Brussels off the table as a candidate that might have been a good choice for this itinerary - - $1130 roundtrip for these dates, even though it is typically cheaper than Paris ($940) or London ($882).<BR>

Rex, you are not necessarily correct, as I checked into a flight that is Boston - Budapest, train from Budapest to Vienna, and then a flight from Vienna to Boston -- the cost was $1230. My roundtrip flight, Boston to Budapest is $403. Budapest to Vienna is 3 hours by train, and that cost is under $25, so it is not worth flying. And, the roundtrip flight Budapest to Vienna was no bargain at all, and I was willing to spend up to $300 for a 45 minute flight, but the quoted cost (and I tried 15 different search engines, including the inter-European ones) was ridiculous and the time spent within the airports and the flight time was more than the time on the train.<BR><BR>So, in general, open-jaw tickets are more expensive, and not usually slightly more, but a lot more. With so many legs of a trip, it can sometimes be more cost effective to make a circle.<BR><BR>Besides, Rex, I use Boston as a gateway to Europe, which is one of the 3 least expensive gateways for departures to Europe.

Okay, we'll use Boston as the origination city, if you insist - - but why use Budapest and Vienna? - - you criticized Fred for his open jaw into Barcelona and out of Nice - - but then throw in your own (irrelevant) choice of cities in central Europe.<BR><BR>BOS-BCN, NCE-BOS $749<BR>BOS-BCN, BCN-BOS $759<BR>BOS-NCE, NCE-BOS $732<BR><BR>for travel dates June 4-18 (2002) checking Orbitz today on December 26, 2001.<BR><BR>Neither my isolated examples nor yours prove what is GENERALLY true - - but I have priced a LOT of open jaw trans-atlantic air travel - - and purchased dozens of such tickets. And I think that your initial "ungodly expensive" assertion simply isn't true.<BR><BR>Moreover, I feel certain that the collective experience of many travelers on this forum will not back up your "ungodly expensive" claim - - GENERALLY speaking.<BR>