Chip and PIN or Chip and Signature Credit Cards/ATM
Sep 1st, 2012, 09:11 AM
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Chip and PIN or Chip and Signature Credit Cards/ATM
I leave for Italy in one month and surprisingly have never come across this subject regarding American credit cards or ATM cards that might not work in Italy if they are not Chip and PIN or Chip and signature cards.
If anyone has had experience in this area and can offer some useful advice I would really appreciate it. The following are concerns regarding the Chip and PIN vs Chip and signature credit cards and an ATM question as well.
1. Would a Chip and PIN or a Chip and signature credit card be necessary to use for purchases in Italy?
2. I have an ordinary stripe ATM card. Can I still use that to access cash at an ATM machine?
3. What is the difference between a Chip and PIN and a Chip and signature card?
4. Would a Chip and Signature card work at an unmanned gas station or ticket kiosk?
One of my credit cards has the chip and signature feature which I had to request for my upcoming trip. But I am concerned about the signature part being not a PIN and most concerned for my ATM ability.
I have read several articles on line regarding this technology and while they are not so confusing, the whole thing is just different and I'd hate to be stuck in Italy with no finances. Please offer some advice. Thanks!
If anyone has had experience in this area and can offer some useful advice I would really appreciate it. The following are concerns regarding the Chip and PIN vs Chip and signature credit cards and an ATM question as well.
1. Would a Chip and PIN or a Chip and signature credit card be necessary to use for purchases in Italy?
2. I have an ordinary stripe ATM card. Can I still use that to access cash at an ATM machine?
3. What is the difference between a Chip and PIN and a Chip and signature card?
4. Would a Chip and Signature card work at an unmanned gas station or ticket kiosk?
One of my credit cards has the chip and signature feature which I had to request for my upcoming trip. But I am concerned about the signature part being not a PIN and most concerned for my ATM ability.
I have read several articles on line regarding this technology and while they are not so confusing, the whole thing is just different and I'd hate to be stuck in Italy with no finances. Please offer some advice. Thanks!
Sep 1st, 2012, 10:02 AM
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1. ATM cards are not affected by any of this. Your antiquated American debit/ATM card will work with the proper PIN number. So that settles that.
2. For the most part in Italy specifically my experience in the recent past has been no problems with the antiquated American magnetic strip cards so I wouldn't for the most part worry.
3. Without going through all the intricacies (such as onlne vs off line processing), chip and signature cards on your end are processed exactly the same way as chip and pin i.e. you stick the card into the point of sale (pos) terminal's slot for chip cards. It will say wait. The difference from chip and pin is that instead of prompting you to enter your Personal Identificaton Number, it will say sale approved and print out a receipt for your to sign in the same way a magnetic strip card would after bveing swiped. For the most part, as I said above, in Italy it doesn't matter too much and chip and signature cards will be honored at all the same places magnetic strip cards are as well as for the most part where chip and pin cards are accepted but see below.
4, Unmanned (or unwomanned) kiosks and/or gas station are another problem. Most have reported their chip and signature cards don't work in them, hosever there have been exceptions reported. Some people claim the same pin as used for cash advances will work when a pin is requested even though the card is chip and signature. That is contrary to what is supposed ot happen but who am I to arguue withpeople who are quite sure they used their cash advance pin under these circumstances. So the best answer is that for unmanned (or unwomanned) locations you might be out of luck with a chip and pin card (as well as a magnetic strip). That also seems to include some of the toll roads although whether this is a problem in Ialy as opposed to France where it is reported with certainty here oftentimes, is open to question.
So the answer is a mixed bag. There are several free chip and signature cards available now with no foreign transaction fees. One of the chip and pin cards available to Americans, from Andrews FCU, actually checks to see if chip and signature will work first and then it will go to chip and pin but it charges a 1% foreign transaction fee. Another fcu issuing these cards is State Department FCU which has no foreigntransaction fee!
Hope this helps.
2. For the most part in Italy specifically my experience in the recent past has been no problems with the antiquated American magnetic strip cards so I wouldn't for the most part worry.
3. Without going through all the intricacies (such as onlne vs off line processing), chip and signature cards on your end are processed exactly the same way as chip and pin i.e. you stick the card into the point of sale (pos) terminal's slot for chip cards. It will say wait. The difference from chip and pin is that instead of prompting you to enter your Personal Identificaton Number, it will say sale approved and print out a receipt for your to sign in the same way a magnetic strip card would after bveing swiped. For the most part, as I said above, in Italy it doesn't matter too much and chip and signature cards will be honored at all the same places magnetic strip cards are as well as for the most part where chip and pin cards are accepted but see below.
4, Unmanned (or unwomanned) kiosks and/or gas station are another problem. Most have reported their chip and signature cards don't work in them, hosever there have been exceptions reported. Some people claim the same pin as used for cash advances will work when a pin is requested even though the card is chip and signature. That is contrary to what is supposed ot happen but who am I to arguue withpeople who are quite sure they used their cash advance pin under these circumstances. So the best answer is that for unmanned (or unwomanned) locations you might be out of luck with a chip and pin card (as well as a magnetic strip). That also seems to include some of the toll roads although whether this is a problem in Ialy as opposed to France where it is reported with certainty here oftentimes, is open to question.
So the answer is a mixed bag. There are several free chip and signature cards available now with no foreign transaction fees. One of the chip and pin cards available to Americans, from Andrews FCU, actually checks to see if chip and signature will work first and then it will go to chip and pin but it charges a 1% foreign transaction fee. Another fcu issuing these cards is State Department FCU which has no foreigntransaction fee!
Hope this helps.
Sep 1st, 2012, 02:23 PM
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Haven't ever had a problem with my credit or debit cards not working at an atm in Italy.
However, make sure you have a 4 digit pin as longer ones are not accepted at all atms.
Keypads in Italy are in numbers only so be sure you know your pin by number, not letter/word.
Check with your bank to see if they have an agreement with an Italian bank. That way you wont get charged non-bank atm fees if you use an atm at a 'sister' bank.
However, make sure you have a 4 digit pin as longer ones are not accepted at all atms.
Keypads in Italy are in numbers only so be sure you know your pin by number, not letter/word.
Check with your bank to see if they have an agreement with an Italian bank. That way you wont get charged non-bank atm fees if you use an atm at a 'sister' bank.
Sep 1st, 2012, 03:18 PM
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Here is an article from creditcards.com about the chip and pin you might find useful.
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...cards-1271.php
In addition here is a link from that article with a listing of EMV cards available in the US.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...vTUMxdUE#gid=0
At the end of June this year American Express announced it would start issuing EMV cards to some during the second half of 2012, however I can tell you from experience that when you speak with customer service they have no idea who will receive them or when they will be available.
http://about.americanexpress.com/new...v_roadmap.aspx
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...cards-1271.php
In addition here is a link from that article with a listing of EMV cards available in the US.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...vTUMxdUE#gid=0
At the end of June this year American Express announced it would start issuing EMV cards to some during the second half of 2012, however I can tell you from experience that when you speak with customer service they have no idea who will receive them or when they will be available.
http://about.americanexpress.com/new...v_roadmap.aspx
Sep 1st, 2012, 03:46 PM
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hollywoodsc....the vast majority of banks have policies that do not have anythig to do with what bank you use for an atm withdrawal. The good ones do not charge for any atm withdrawals no matter what the bank. Others charge something like $3 to $5 for all atm withdrawals for accessing your money at a foreign bank.
The only US bank I know of with a policy of haves and have nots as far as withdrawing from foreign bank atm's is Bank of America but your advice should be check with your bank to find out which banks have restrictions on which banks you can use fee free for withdrawals and if your bank charges a fee, find another bank. To be charged for accessing your money is simply asinine.
The only US bank I know of with a policy of haves and have nots as far as withdrawing from foreign bank atm's is Bank of America but your advice should be check with your bank to find out which banks have restrictions on which banks you can use fee free for withdrawals and if your bank charges a fee, find another bank. To be charged for accessing your money is simply asinine.
Sep 2nd, 2012, 08:46 PM
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See a topic I just posted on what I found out for WElls Fargo, Capital One and Schwab.
One other thing not mentioned here...I have heard that your four digit PIN should not have a leading zero. I'm changing mine before I go to make sure.
One other thing not mentioned here...I have heard that your four digit PIN should not have a leading zero. I'm changing mine before I go to make sure.
Sep 2nd, 2012, 09:26 PM
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leslieq,
I have a leading zero in my PIN that has worked in over a hundred bancomats. My Italian friends tell me that they are issued cards with five digit PINs and on the machines that show blanks for PINs I have seen space for six digits.
I looked at your referenced topic and would like to point out that having a daily limit in the thousands will not always save you from fees. Just like the US, Italian bancomats have transaction limits (usually between 250 and 500 euro) so you will probably have to make multiple transactions to get your daily limit.
I have a leading zero in my PIN that has worked in over a hundred bancomats. My Italian friends tell me that they are issued cards with five digit PINs and on the machines that show blanks for PINs I have seen space for six digits.
I looked at your referenced topic and would like to point out that having a daily limit in the thousands will not always save you from fees. Just like the US, Italian bancomats have transaction limits (usually between 250 and 500 euro) so you will probably have to make multiple transactions to get your daily limit.
Sep 3rd, 2012, 08:55 PM
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Hi Henry,
Wow, had heard from several posters here and also my bank that the leading zero would not work. Glad to hear you haven't had problems, as I like my current PIN. I heard back on my original post that Italian banks might have different limits or fees even though Wells Fargo upped my daily withdrawal limit. We hope to use our new Schwab debit cards (no fees!) instead of WF but bringing both as safety net.
Thanks!
Wow, had heard from several posters here and also my bank that the leading zero would not work. Glad to hear you haven't had problems, as I like my current PIN. I heard back on my original post that Italian banks might have different limits or fees even though Wells Fargo upped my daily withdrawal limit. We hope to use our new Schwab debit cards (no fees!) instead of WF but bringing both as safety net.
Thanks!
Sep 6th, 2012, 10:01 AM
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xyz123 - that's exactly what I said. Check with your bank before you go.
You're going to call them anyway to let them know you'll be traveling so ask at that time if they have any non (home) bank atm fees. If so, ask if the bank has any affiliates that you can use to avoid those fees.
I use 2 banks in the US. One charges fees, one doesn't if I use their affiliates.
It's not worth it to me to get a 3rd card and pay a yearly membership fee just to avoid a few dollars in atm fees.
Another option is to purchase a pre-paid Visa, and only put on as much as you need for your trip.
You're going to call them anyway to let them know you'll be traveling so ask at that time if they have any non (home) bank atm fees. If so, ask if the bank has any affiliates that you can use to avoid those fees.
I use 2 banks in the US. One charges fees, one doesn't if I use their affiliates.
It's not worth it to me to get a 3rd card and pay a yearly membership fee just to avoid a few dollars in atm fees.
Another option is to purchase a pre-paid Visa, and only put on as much as you need for your trip.
