chip and pin EMV credit cards
Feb 3rd, 2013, 06:59 PM
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Assuming you are USA resident, you can look at Andrews FCU, State Department FCU and PenFed FCU. This has been discussed ad nauseum here. These cards will function as chip and pin cards in unmanned or unwomanned kiosks but if a pos terminal takes chip and signature then their default is chip and signature.
Now it shouldn't matter. But there have been reports that what could happenis that if the pos terminal is programmed to accept chip and signature cards, the merchant fears for his or her liability might not accept the transaction. It has happened although not often. In a way, it's a sticky wicket.
USAA has announced they will be offering chip and pin cards although it is not clear how they will work. In additin, USAA charges a 1% foreign transaction fee or has in the past (I don't know in reading their terms and conditions whether they still do). Nobody has reported on their cards yet as I don't think anybody has received one.
Bank of America has its travbel rewards card which is chip and signature with no foreign transaction fee and no annual fee.
Chip and signature cards don't seem to provide very many advanages over magnetic strip cards at present.
Like I said, at this point in time, it's very unclear. I wuld go with one of the FCU's although it has been reported being credit unions they can be a real pain in the butt to apply for but all three of them have njo annual fee and no foreign transaction fee.
Now it shouldn't matter. But there have been reports that what could happenis that if the pos terminal is programmed to accept chip and signature cards, the merchant fears for his or her liability might not accept the transaction. It has happened although not often. In a way, it's a sticky wicket.
USAA has announced they will be offering chip and pin cards although it is not clear how they will work. In additin, USAA charges a 1% foreign transaction fee or has in the past (I don't know in reading their terms and conditions whether they still do). Nobody has reported on their cards yet as I don't think anybody has received one.
Bank of America has its travbel rewards card which is chip and signature with no foreign transaction fee and no annual fee.
Chip and signature cards don't seem to provide very many advanages over magnetic strip cards at present.
Like I said, at this point in time, it's very unclear. I wuld go with one of the FCU's although it has been reported being credit unions they can be a real pain in the butt to apply for but all three of them have njo annual fee and no foreign transaction fee.
Feb 4th, 2013, 07:50 AM
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Andrews AFB CU or the State Department CU have no-fee pin and chip credit cards that fully function as pin and chip not pin and signature. They charge the 1% currency conversion fee.
PenFed, while not charging any fees, does not offer a pin and chip card.
USAA, which like Andrews and the State Department, does charge the 1% currency conversion fee (there are some exceptions on some transaction types) but they do not have, as of yet, a pin and chip card.
None of the above banks charges a foreign transaction fee nor an annual fee.
The situation is dynamic and is changing constantly with more options all of the time.
PenFed, while not charging any fees, does not offer a pin and chip card.
USAA, which like Andrews and the State Department, does charge the 1% currency conversion fee (there are some exceptions on some transaction types) but they do not have, as of yet, a pin and chip card.
None of the above banks charges a foreign transaction fee nor an annual fee.
The situation is dynamic and is changing constantly with more options all of the time.
Feb 4th, 2013, 09:02 AM
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DebitNM - don't be sorry at all. I had ruled out Andrews because of the fee. If the fee is gone, though their website language does not specifically state no currency conversion fee, then they have become a very attractive source for a pin and chip card.
Feb 4th, 2013, 09:47 AM
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I have been communicating with DebitNM through e-mail about the Andrews card. Deb reported to me that a grocery in Provence did not accept her Andrews card - so she paid with a swipe card. The Andrews card also did not work on a autoroute toll booth - so she paid cash. She uses her swipe card whenever she can, and only uses the Andrews card when the swipe card won't work - like at un-manned gas stations.
We spend about 2 months in Europe almost every year - mainly France. We rent Gites/apts - so we purchase lots of stuff from the super/hyper Marches. More & more marches/groceries are only accepting Chip & Pin cards. We've had to pay cash at a few groceries and at a few gas stations.
My main objective is to figure out which card to use that will provide us the least amount of hassle. I don't mind paying an extra $1 to $3 (conversion fees) on $100 worth of groceries or gas if I have to pay in cash withdrawn from an ATM kn Europe. Our Cap One swipe card (0 conversion fees) is paid automatically from our Morgan Stanley brokerage account. We don't do anything to pay it.
Deb advised me that to pay her Andrews card, she had to:
- Set up an account with Andrews Credit Union and deposit some money in it. Some people have reported that this is a time consuming event.
- When it is time to pay the Credit Card bill, she has to (by PC) move some of this money from one Andrews account to another Andrews account and then pay the bill. There is not an automatic payment option and no way to pay by snail mail. I don't think she receives a paper invoice either. This seems like a lot of work for us and perhaps a "can't do" when we are in Europe for 7 weeks at a time with no PC or Ipad.
Since we are seasoned travelers, we know to gas-up on Saturdays because gas stations can be hard to find on Sundays. Twice we've had to pay for gas in cash - which means about $5 extra in currency conversion fees (Morgan Stanley ATM card conversion fees are obscene). Same with purchasing groceries. I suppose this means that the Andrews card would only save us less than $10/year for the few times our Cap One swipe card is not accepted and we have to pay cash.
I think I just answered my own question. I'll continue to use cash & a Cap One swipe card until more merchants in France won't accept swipe cards - which may be this year or next.
Stu Dudley
We spend about 2 months in Europe almost every year - mainly France. We rent Gites/apts - so we purchase lots of stuff from the super/hyper Marches. More & more marches/groceries are only accepting Chip & Pin cards. We've had to pay cash at a few groceries and at a few gas stations.
My main objective is to figure out which card to use that will provide us the least amount of hassle. I don't mind paying an extra $1 to $3 (conversion fees) on $100 worth of groceries or gas if I have to pay in cash withdrawn from an ATM kn Europe. Our Cap One swipe card (0 conversion fees) is paid automatically from our Morgan Stanley brokerage account. We don't do anything to pay it.
Deb advised me that to pay her Andrews card, she had to:
- Set up an account with Andrews Credit Union and deposit some money in it. Some people have reported that this is a time consuming event.
- When it is time to pay the Credit Card bill, she has to (by PC) move some of this money from one Andrews account to another Andrews account and then pay the bill. There is not an automatic payment option and no way to pay by snail mail. I don't think she receives a paper invoice either. This seems like a lot of work for us and perhaps a "can't do" when we are in Europe for 7 weeks at a time with no PC or Ipad.
Since we are seasoned travelers, we know to gas-up on Saturdays because gas stations can be hard to find on Sundays. Twice we've had to pay for gas in cash - which means about $5 extra in currency conversion fees (Morgan Stanley ATM card conversion fees are obscene). Same with purchasing groceries. I suppose this means that the Andrews card would only save us less than $10/year for the few times our Cap One swipe card is not accepted and we have to pay cash.
I think I just answered my own question. I'll continue to use cash & a Cap One swipe card until more merchants in France won't accept swipe cards - which may be this year or next.
Stu Dudley
Feb 4th, 2013, 10:17 AM
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In all fairness, icdontcknow for sure that you cannot get a paper bill and pay by snail mail. I also do not know whether you can use a preset payment from an existing checking account as I don't pay that way.
I have stopped using the Andrews card except when needed because my Chase Southwest card now gives me no fee transactions and I earned SW points which I love and use regularly.
The initial deposit to establish the Andrews account was just $5. They do not charge any ATM fees to take money out. We also have Cap One online checking account which is fee free BUT those accounts are no longer available for new customers. I have a feeling that they are going to have those Cap One accounts taken over by ING and the fee free will disappear. Last time I talked to cap One, they used the term," no fees as of now,"
The Andrews account took me only 10 days to get going, but people after me said it took much longer. Maybe it has to do with variable factors ( credit rating, employment history, income etc), I don't know. It may also have been since it was so new, that they were overwhelmed with applications. Andrews also has some great low rate cars loans. They have nice to work with.
I have stopped using the Andrews card except when needed because my Chase Southwest card now gives me no fee transactions and I earned SW points which I love and use regularly.
The initial deposit to establish the Andrews account was just $5. They do not charge any ATM fees to take money out. We also have Cap One online checking account which is fee free BUT those accounts are no longer available for new customers. I have a feeling that they are going to have those Cap One accounts taken over by ING and the fee free will disappear. Last time I talked to cap One, they used the term," no fees as of now,"
The Andrews account took me only 10 days to get going, but people after me said it took much longer. Maybe it has to do with variable factors ( credit rating, employment history, income etc), I don't know. It may also have been since it was so new, that they were overwhelmed with applications. Andrews also has some great low rate cars loans. They have nice to work with.
Feb 4th, 2013, 12:34 PM
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Such mis information here. Some of it has been corrected. Some of it is still mis-informatin.
As noted Andrews FCU dropped the 1% foreign transaction fee last August.
Pen Fed has recently begun issuing emv cards on several of its credit cards and just recently announced that people with those cards can now convert them to an emv card. All three of them, Andrews, State Department and PenFed have emv cards without annual fees and without foreign transaction fees. I have all 3 cards so I know these facts are true. USAA has recently begun issuing emv cards. For the time being they are only issuing emv cards to their cardholders who specifically request them for upcoming travel overseas. They say they will eventually convert all their credit cards to emv.
Andrews FCU is no different than any other biller. I set up Andrews as a payee through my Fidelity Brokerage account no different than any other payee. The payments are made directly to the address on the statement and no problems.
Now the other mis-information. Andrews and State Department cards, and again since I've used them I know for a fact. They default as chip and signature. I used the Andrews card in the UK and it always went through as chip and signature. I put the card in the emv slot and a receipt was printed for me to sign. Both Andrews and State Department have made it clear that chip and signature is the default method. If the pos terminal accepts chip and signature, this is the way it will function. In unmanned (or unwomanned) situations, according to both Andrews and State Department, if the terminal rejects or is not geared to chip and signature then it can and does function as chip and pin. On some of the blogs I particpate in, there have been mixed reports as to just how well these cards function as chip and pin. In some places, according to some, they work flawlessly. Others have reported the cards don't work, as Stu reported several posts above, at things like toll booths and the self service unmanned gasoline stations. Teething pains? Perhaps.
It is not clear how USAA will function although according to their literature, they are supposed to be true chip and pin cards. Skeptical people like me are not so sure but we'll see.
The problem I tried to explain, and I will stick with it is that you cnnot tell the pos terminal that you want it to go chip and pin if it is gear, that is it allows online transactions (chip and pin is geared to off line transaction basically). The catch is that the eu is moving in certain directions regarding merchant liability and there was a report from somebody trying to use his Andrews card at a grocery in Ireland that he insertd the card properly and the pos terminal spit out a receipt. The merchant then said sorry he doesn't accept signature cards because of the liability rules. He then voided the transaction and the cardholder had to pay cash.
All this is the correct information as it stands today. I do have the Andrews and State Department cards, I have a Pen Fed card which I have requested be converted to emv (Pen Fed does not charge a foreign transaction fee or an annual fee and this card gives me back 5% on all gasoline purchases and 0.25% on everything else.
So it's quite a mixed bag and things are moving but still the situation is not optimum. Frankly I wanted cards with chips but my own experience for the most part is that I have yet to come across most any place in the UK (the oversea place I visit the most) that doesn't take the magnetic strip American cards and when the UK introduced chip and pin, at the behest of some handicapped organizations, provision was made in the UK implementation that the system would have to allow the use of a signature for those who are handicapped and unable for a variety of reasons to enter a pin. Hence almost universally in the UK, chip and signature will work.
I hate to be dogmatic but when I see information I know is incorrect, I feel obliged to respond.;
I hope these explanations which are most assuredly correct will help.
As noted Andrews FCU dropped the 1% foreign transaction fee last August.
Pen Fed has recently begun issuing emv cards on several of its credit cards and just recently announced that people with those cards can now convert them to an emv card. All three of them, Andrews, State Department and PenFed have emv cards without annual fees and without foreign transaction fees. I have all 3 cards so I know these facts are true. USAA has recently begun issuing emv cards. For the time being they are only issuing emv cards to their cardholders who specifically request them for upcoming travel overseas. They say they will eventually convert all their credit cards to emv.
Andrews FCU is no different than any other biller. I set up Andrews as a payee through my Fidelity Brokerage account no different than any other payee. The payments are made directly to the address on the statement and no problems.
Now the other mis-information. Andrews and State Department cards, and again since I've used them I know for a fact. They default as chip and signature. I used the Andrews card in the UK and it always went through as chip and signature. I put the card in the emv slot and a receipt was printed for me to sign. Both Andrews and State Department have made it clear that chip and signature is the default method. If the pos terminal accepts chip and signature, this is the way it will function. In unmanned (or unwomanned) situations, according to both Andrews and State Department, if the terminal rejects or is not geared to chip and signature then it can and does function as chip and pin. On some of the blogs I particpate in, there have been mixed reports as to just how well these cards function as chip and pin. In some places, according to some, they work flawlessly. Others have reported the cards don't work, as Stu reported several posts above, at things like toll booths and the self service unmanned gasoline stations. Teething pains? Perhaps.
It is not clear how USAA will function although according to their literature, they are supposed to be true chip and pin cards. Skeptical people like me are not so sure but we'll see.
The problem I tried to explain, and I will stick with it is that you cnnot tell the pos terminal that you want it to go chip and pin if it is gear, that is it allows online transactions (chip and pin is geared to off line transaction basically). The catch is that the eu is moving in certain directions regarding merchant liability and there was a report from somebody trying to use his Andrews card at a grocery in Ireland that he insertd the card properly and the pos terminal spit out a receipt. The merchant then said sorry he doesn't accept signature cards because of the liability rules. He then voided the transaction and the cardholder had to pay cash.
All this is the correct information as it stands today. I do have the Andrews and State Department cards, I have a Pen Fed card which I have requested be converted to emv (Pen Fed does not charge a foreign transaction fee or an annual fee and this card gives me back 5% on all gasoline purchases and 0.25% on everything else.
So it's quite a mixed bag and things are moving but still the situation is not optimum. Frankly I wanted cards with chips but my own experience for the most part is that I have yet to come across most any place in the UK (the oversea place I visit the most) that doesn't take the magnetic strip American cards and when the UK introduced chip and pin, at the behest of some handicapped organizations, provision was made in the UK implementation that the system would have to allow the use of a signature for those who are handicapped and unable for a variety of reasons to enter a pin. Hence almost universally in the UK, chip and signature will work.
I hate to be dogmatic but when I see information I know is incorrect, I feel obliged to respond.;
I hope these explanations which are most assuredly correct will help.
Feb 4th, 2013, 01:24 PM
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xyz123 - So, your Andrews card charges are paid automatically from your Fidelity account without you having to do anything at all - other than initially setting up the ACH (or whatever) through Andrews??? I can be in Europe for 4 months in a remote location and without any internet access and my 4 month's of credit card charges will be processed automatically ??? If that is the case, it seems like I would not need to set up an Andrews account, and deposit money in it if Andrews "sends" my monthly CC "bills" to Fidelity (Morgan Stanley in my case).
Stu Dudley
Stu Dudley
Feb 4th, 2013, 01:26 PM
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No I didn't say that or didn't mean to imply that. They are a payee. When I note a bill has been printed, I set up a payment which goes directly to them. I set the payment for 3 days before the payment due date. Doesn't go through any other Andrews account.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Feb 4th, 2013, 01:30 PM
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But of course you can pay all your bills using on-line banking and for the most part, I don't like to use automatic paying bills in case there's an error. When I'm on holiday in Europe, every couple of days I stop by an internet cafe (I know some people advise against this but it's the 21st century and while I might think twice about doing it in some third world country, I have no problems going to my accounts through on line banking within Europe).
In my case, I have something attached to my Fidelity brokerage account called full view. IIt immediately shows me what bills have come through. I then go to Fidelity bill pay and set up payments that are due. Others on other blogs have had things to say about Andrews but they're just another payee. The account appears in my full view. If an Andrews bill shows up, I pay it through bill pay. No different than Bank of America visa or Chase visa or Capital One visa or whatever.
In my case, I have something attached to my Fidelity brokerage account called full view. IIt immediately shows me what bills have come through. I then go to Fidelity bill pay and set up payments that are due. Others on other blogs have had things to say about Andrews but they're just another payee. The account appears in my full view. If an Andrews bill shows up, I pay it through bill pay. No different than Bank of America visa or Chase visa or Capital One visa or whatever.
Feb 4th, 2013, 03:16 PM
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Question - could you not pre pay your Andrews Credit Card Bill? I have in the past, when I knew I was going to be in Europe when my credit card (not Andrews)bill came due, sent them an overpayment the month before. So for example, if you planned to use your Andrews card for a couple of months, and estimated that you would spend a thousand dollars a month, couldn't you 'send' them two thousand before you left? I realize they would be holding onto your money but if you aren't talking about huge amounts it could be worth it. Certainly better than paying the interest rates on a credit card balance.
Feb 4th, 2013, 03:41 PM
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sabel....not to be argumentive (and I promise I will try not to) and in all due respect to you and everybody else, this is the 21st century. Again in all due respect, I find it hard to believe people don't use online banking and bill payment services and all those wonderful things that make living in the 21st century mucdh more convenient.
Why pre-pay? I find it hard to believe, and please forgive me because this is not to demean anybody, that people when travelling are unable to check up on the bank accounts and their credit card accounts just to make sure nothing wayward is gong on. Of course, you can pre-pay but it just doesn't seem to me, at least, as a good way to go.
And trust me, I'm no spring chicken but I do everything in my life electronically. I think last year I wrote about 5 checks. That's it. On line banking, credit card everything (I'm home right now and I don't think I've paid one cent in cash for the last two months).
Maybe I'm just weird.
Why pre-pay? I find it hard to believe, and please forgive me because this is not to demean anybody, that people when travelling are unable to check up on the bank accounts and their credit card accounts just to make sure nothing wayward is gong on. Of course, you can pre-pay but it just doesn't seem to me, at least, as a good way to go.
And trust me, I'm no spring chicken but I do everything in my life electronically. I think last year I wrote about 5 checks. That's it. On line banking, credit card everything (I'm home right now and I don't think I've paid one cent in cash for the last two months).
Maybe I'm just weird.
Feb 4th, 2013, 03:58 PM
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We prepaid our credit card bills when we were traveling for 3 weeks at a time 15 years ago, and the "bill" was due/late while we were gone. Now we often travel 6+ weeks at a time and sometimes stay in places that don't have internet cafes or other services near-by where we can get to a PC. We were in the Pyrenees for 5+ weeks last year & that was the case. We had no desire to try to locate some place in a city that had such facilities. In the 15 years we've had our various credit card bills automatically deducted from our Morgan Stanley brokerage account, we've had no "problems" with errant charges.
Stu Dudley
Stu Dudley
Feb 4th, 2013, 04:15 PM
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Your call Stu and it's fine if that's the way you feel but I'll throw this out as a hypothetical...
About 20 years ago, my credit card number was cmpromised while I was travelling and it was an era before the wide advent of online banking, internet cafes, mobile phones and the like. When I got home, I found bills toalling $8,000 (4 $2000 charges using the pilfered number). A few phone calls fixed the problem but just saying if I had automatic bill payments things might have been a lot harder to resolve. I just don't like automatic bill payment and prefer to have control but you're certainly entitled.
About 20 years ago, my credit card number was cmpromised while I was travelling and it was an era before the wide advent of online banking, internet cafes, mobile phones and the like. When I got home, I found bills toalling $8,000 (4 $2000 charges using the pilfered number). A few phone calls fixed the problem but just saying if I had automatic bill payments things might have been a lot harder to resolve. I just don't like automatic bill payment and prefer to have control but you're certainly entitled.
Feb 4th, 2013, 04:34 PM
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Actually I do almost all my bill paying with on line banking, and that includes when I'm in Europe. But the issue came up of what to do if someone does not have Internet access - or at least 'secure' access - and would have to go to an internet cafe or such. When I am at a hotel that requires a password I feel safe enough to access my bank accounts, credit cards,etc. But I have been told by numerous people who I trust, who are in the computer business, that it is not a good idea to access accounts with sensitive information from a public place like a cafe - both here in the US and in Europe.
