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IMDonehere Sep 22nd, 2014 12:51 AM

Approximate Chinese-American populations:

NYC metropolitan area 735,000

Paris Region -58,000

bvlenci Sep 22nd, 2014 01:18 AM

I have a feeling Manouche is correct, and that many of these groups consist of paid buyers, not tourists. That would explain a lot; they would have no interest in culture.

I haven't been to China in 20 years, but I used to travel there frequently. As in most countries, there is an intellectual elite who are very interested in culture, and very well behaved in every situation. Since I went to China for academic reasons, I met a lot of such people. However, I also often flew on regional flights within China, and you wouldn't believe the scrum at the gates.

kerouac Sep 22nd, 2014 02:48 AM

Actually, that would be 230,000 for the Paris metropolitan area, IMD, but nobody is trying to have a contest with NYC anyway, since it is not in Europe and this forum is not the place to discuss NYC.

chartley Sep 22nd, 2014 02:58 AM

Are there really 58,000 Chinese-Americans living in Paris?

manouche Sep 22nd, 2014 03:15 AM

There has also been a huge increase in the number of visitors from India. From what I've witnessed, many come to work in Paris for a couple of weeks, and stay independently in cheap apartments - often bringing along the wife and kids.

The Indians like to get a whole lot done, over a very short period of time - seeing all the major monuments or packing in several major museums over the course of one day, for example. It's a mentality that is not easily understood by Westerners, but who's to say they don't get as much out of it as we do? At least, they are much more polite than the Asian tour groups.

Dukey1 Sep 22nd, 2014 05:01 AM

Justineparis, the Canadian Government made a very conscious decision when it <B>brought in all that Chinese money</B> so that those folks CAN "buy their way in."

tom_mn Sep 22nd, 2014 05:48 AM

>>Interesting! In a brief stopover in Paris 3 weeks ago, I found the French uniformly kind and helpful -- probably more so than any previous trip.<<

I had the same experience last month. In fact if the language is not a barrier to you, it is easy to forget that you are in Paris not in Milwaukee or Kansas City, the behavior of the locals is the same (except for the smoking).

Although I have great respect for Chinese culture, I have to say I found the Chinese tour groups at the Louvre a wildly negative presence.

PalenQ Sep 22nd, 2014 06:22 AM

I'm surprised they have that much money, most Chinese are still pretty poor. And going to paris from China must be really expensive.>

Many Chinese are poor but in a country with a population of some 1.5 billion even a small % of the new rich oligarchs is a huge raw number - there are millions of Chinese that are not only wealthy but extremely so and they tend to carry cash, the article says.

My son who grew up in France says that mugging Asians was popular with a certain element because they knew it would be profitable - nice camera, money, etc.

PalenQ Sep 22nd, 2014 06:33 AM

I have tutored English to many Asians and the few who have been to Paris all say how filthy it was.

and one in a McDonalds got his I Phone stolen by two young Romani girls who distracted him by sticking some piece o paper in his face for him to read whilst the other stole his phone, which was on the table but not out of his view.

Jean Sep 22nd, 2014 06:54 AM

I have never seen tourists of any country be as rude and boorish as the Chinese in Sacre-Ceour, Notre Dame and the Pantheon, even as personnel/guards were politely and persistently showing them signs asking for silence and no photo-taking. At first we thought the Chinese didn't understand, but eventually we decided they didn't care. Even other tourists began to shush them during a service at Sacre-Ceour... with little effect.

manouche Sep 22nd, 2014 07:03 AM

I'm certainly not defending the behavior of Asian tour groups - however, it is good to know that they are being herded around at warp speed by their handlers, who keep them on a tight leash and are under enormous time constraints.
I don't like the way they behave, but I've seen older Americans in tour groups who acted pretty much the same way, back in the '80's. That many people, so little time, too much to do - it's a pressure-cooker.

NewbE Sep 22nd, 2014 07:26 AM

I agree with you, manouche. The newest group of travelers is always the problem. Back then, the enemy was us :-)

In fact, the lingering consequence on this board is that Americans of a certain age are painfully anxious to distance themselves from those boors of yesteryear. I;m sure that many, many Chinese the world over hate being associated with this kind of press coverage.

But again, it's sad and somewhat shameful that although the article the OP linked to talks about the bad experiences of the Chinese tourists--muggings!--all of you are falling over yourselves to talk about how bad the Chinese are. It's a point, but not THE point of this thread, at least not initially. Think about what that says, and ask yourselves if these Chinese tourists don't feel the pain of the same sort of bias from their French hosts.

kerouac Sep 22nd, 2014 09:08 AM

Actually, this is just a transitional phase. I have seen more and more independent Chinese visitors in the last few years -- usually young couples but sometimes older ones -- and they are much better than the groups. I was very impressed by a Chinese couple that I came across at the Europcar counter in Avignon-TGV because they were not only charming, but they also spoke enough French for basic needs.

To put things in perspective, though, the problem is not at all about any nationality, or else we are going to go through all of this again every time a new country becomes more affluent and we come across Vietnamese, Congolese or Bangladeshi groups. I used to travel very frequently to Southeast Asia and I was consistent horrified by "provincial" French group tours that I encountered -- farmers and assorted hayseeds from the middle of nowhere with sudden access to group tours on the other side of the world through the magic of low airfares. They clearly appreciated almost nothing, hated most of the food, were frozen by the air conditioning when they were not sweating from the scorching humid weather, etc. I can only imagine what they told their friends when they returned home.

PalenQ Sep 22nd, 2014 09:17 AM

Interesting to note that in the article it was said by some wag that 'Parisians were the most unhappiest people on the planet'!

IMDonehere Sep 22nd, 2014 09:20 AM

Maybe there is a reason for such misunderstanding and mutual hostility.

NewbE Sep 22nd, 2014 09:43 AM

<Actually, this is just a transitional phase.>

I see that the effort to slag the Chinese continues, though. How is that article relevant to the first article, IMD?

NewbE Sep 22nd, 2014 09:44 AM

<Interesting to note that in the article it was said by some wag that 'Parisians were the most unhappiest people on the planet'!>
Pal, I think many French would agree!

kerouac Sep 22nd, 2014 09:44 AM

What I love about those polls is that people who have never been to the country can vote on hearsay.

Cowboy1968 Sep 22nd, 2014 10:09 AM

<i>also find Chinese behaviour such as spitting, public urinating and defecating, shouting, ignoring no entry signs, etc etc highly offensive.</i>

Sounds like a regular day of Oktoberfest.
No wonder that I've never heard of any problems with Chinese visitors here in Munich :-)

IMDonehere Sep 22nd, 2014 10:11 AM

Of course, Kerouac knows those who were polled individually and they have never visited France.

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