Approximate Chinese-American populations:

NYC-522,000
NYC metropolitan area 735,000

Paris Region -58,000

I have a feeling Manouche is correct, and that many of these groups consist of paid buyers, not tourists. That would explain a lot; they would have no interest in culture.

I haven't been to China in 20 years, but I used to travel there frequently. As in most countries, there is an intellectual elite who are very interested in culture, and very well behaved in every situation. Since I went to China for academic reasons, I met a lot of such people. However, I also often flew on regional flights within China, and you wouldn't believe the scrum at the gates.

Actually, that would be 230,000 for the Paris metropolitan area, IMD, but nobody is trying to have a contest with NYC anyway, since it is not in Europe and this forum is not the place to discuss NYC.

Are there really 58,000 Chinese-Americans living in Paris?

There has also been a huge increase in the number of visitors from India. From what I've witnessed, many come to work in Paris for a couple of weeks, and stay independently in cheap apartments - often bringing along the wife and kids.

The Indians like to get a whole lot done, over a very short period of time - seeing all the major monuments or packing in several major museums over the course of one day, for example. It's a mentality that is not easily understood by Westerners, but who's to say they don't get as much out of it as we do? At least, they are much more polite than the Asian tour groups.

Justineparis, the Canadian Government made a very conscious decision when it <B>brought in all that Chinese money</B> so that those folks CAN "buy their way in."

>>Interesting! In a brief stopover in Paris 3 weeks ago, I found the French uniformly kind and helpful -- probably more so than any previous trip.<<

I had the same experience last month. In fact if the language is not a barrier to you, it is easy to forget that you are in Paris not in Milwaukee or Kansas City, the behavior of the locals is the same (except for the smoking).

Although I have great respect for Chinese culture, I have to say I found the Chinese tour groups at the Louvre a wildly negative presence.

I'm surprised they have that much money, most Chinese are still pretty poor. And going to paris from China must be really expensive.>

Many Chinese are poor but in a country with a population of some 1.5 billion even a small % of the new rich oligarchs is a huge raw number - there are millions of Chinese that are not only wealthy but extremely so and they tend to carry cash, the article says.

My son who grew up in France says that mugging Asians was popular with a certain element because they knew it would be profitable - nice camera, money, etc.

I have tutored English to many Asians and the few who have been to Paris all say how filthy it was.

and one in a McDonalds got his I Phone stolen by two young Romani girls who distracted him by sticking some piece o paper in his face for him to read whilst the other stole his phone, which was on the table but not out of his view.

I have never seen tourists of any country be as rude and boorish as the Chinese in Sacre-Ceour, Notre Dame and the Pantheon, even as personnel/guards were politely and persistently showing them signs asking for silence and no photo-taking. At first we thought the Chinese didn't understand, but eventually we decided they didn't care. Even other tourists began to shush them during a service at Sacre-Ceour... with little effect.

I'm certainly not defending the behavior of Asian tour groups - however, it is good to know that they are being herded around at warp speed by their handlers, who keep them on a tight leash and are under enormous time constraints.
I don't like the way they behave, but I've seen older Americans in tour groups who acted pretty much the same way, back in the '80's. That many people, so little time, too much to do - it's a pressure-cooker.

I agree with you, manouche. The newest group of travelers is always the problem. Back then, the enemy was us :-)

In fact, the lingering consequence on this board is that Americans of a certain age are painfully anxious to distance themselves from those boors of yesteryear. I;m sure that many, many Chinese the world over hate being associated with this kind of press coverage.

But again, it's sad and somewhat shameful that although the article the OP linked to talks about the bad experiences of the Chinese tourists--muggings!--all of you are falling over yourselves to talk about how bad the Chinese are. It's a point, but not THE point of this thread, at least not initially. Think about what that says, and ask yourselves if these Chinese tourists don't feel the pain of the same sort of bias from their French hosts.

Actually, this is just a transitional phase. I have seen more and more independent Chinese visitors in the last few years -- usually young couples but sometimes older ones -- and they are much better than the groups. I was very impressed by a Chinese couple that I came across at the Europcar counter in Avignon-TGV because they were not only charming, but they also spoke enough French for basic needs.

To put things in perspective, though, the problem is not at all about any nationality, or else we are going to go through all of this again every time a new country becomes more affluent and we come across Vietnamese, Congolese or Bangladeshi groups. I used to travel very frequently to Southeast Asia and I was consistent horrified by "provincial" French group tours that I encountered -- farmers and assorted hayseeds from the middle of nowhere with sudden access to group tours on the other side of the world through the magic of low airfares. They clearly appreciated almost nothing, hated most of the food, were frozen by the air conditioning when they were not sweating from the scorching humid weather, etc. I can only imagine what they told their friends when they returned home.

Interesting to note that in the article it was said by some wag that 'Parisians were the most unhappiest people on the planet'!

Maybe there is a reason for such misunderstanding and mutual hostility.

http://www.aluxurytravelblog.com/201...on-the-planet/

<Actually, this is just a transitional phase.>
Yes.

I see that the effort to slag the Chinese continues, though. How is that article relevant to the first article, IMD?

<Interesting to note that in the article it was said by some wag that 'Parisians were the most unhappiest people on the planet'!>
Pal, I think many French would agree!

What I love about those polls is that people who have never been to the country can vote on hearsay.

<i>also find Chinese behaviour such as spitting, public urinating and defecating, shouting, ignoring no entry signs, etc etc highly offensive.</i>

Sounds like a regular day of Oktoberfest.
No wonder that I've never heard of any problems with Chinese visitors here in Munich :-)

Of course, Kerouac knows those who were polled individually and they have never visited France.

It's difficult to believe that people with split pants for children to poop on the street would have any problem with some doggie doo.

It bothers me to read about such generalizations in the media. It is how stereotypes get started and it's unfortunate.

Just as we only see and hear the ugly American, there are plenty of people of all nations who know how to act.

(My late hub's doc is Chinese and we were privileged to dine with them. On the topic of travel, they accused Japanese tourists of some of the same things!)

I find if funny that some people bring up that they know like one Chinese person.. as it that's a sample of what its really like to know and live in an area with hundreds if not thousands of Chinese immigrants.

And yes Dukey.. I know.. we sold our souls.

I find if funny that some people bring up that they know like one Chinese person.. as it that's a sample of what its really like to know and live in an area with hundreds if not thousands of Chinese immigrants.
_____________________________
AHHHH, I live in an area with 100,000's of Chinese-Americans and one of those families calls my wife and myself Aunt and Grandpa using the Chinese words and Grandpa because it much funnier than Uncle. And that is not counting the others we know including inter-racial marriages and the attendance of baby banquets, weddings, and 10 course birthday parties. Yes, their are grand difference but that is the glory of a multi-cultural society and one the main reasons for travel.

Of course, there is not French person on these boards who will accept one iota of responsibility for this hostile relationship much of course is the attitude that helps fuel this hostile relationship.

Actually, IMD, there are plenty of French people here who accept the truth -- even the ugly truth -- about how the French are perceived by other cultures. But I am also happy to know that there is almost nobody on this board who believes the total hogwash that you write here constantly, always based on links that you found since you have not been to Paris for such a long time. Do you think that xenophobic links make you an expert about anything?

Here's a little factoid: France is the #1 country in the world for mixed marriages (racial, religious, cultural...). If the French are so horrible, how could this be possible?

It is true I have not been in Paris in six years. I also know Le Pen's party garnered 25% of the vote in the 2014 European Parliament election, 24 of France's 74 seats. And it was the first time the anti-immigrant, anti-EU party had won a nationwide election in its four-decade history. And that a recent poll by the ADL world wide poll of anti-Semitism showed a huge 37% in France as compared to 8% in the UK.

http://global100.adl.org/#map/weurope

So there is a pattern here.

IMD now has the fight he wanted from the start. kerouac, don't feed the troll!!

I think there are parallels between Chinese and Russian tourists. Although Russians are a bit socially acculturated, they still have the sharp elbows and survival of the fittest mentality. When the Soviet Union fell apart, there were many "chelnoki", people who would travel with borrowed money to countries either in the West or Turkey, China, and Pakistan to buy goods for resale at much higher prices. Although, due to the distance, Paris is not a destination for such chelnoki, it is a destination for luxury goods.

On a separate note, I read the article about France being an unhappy place. It seems that the potential for social mobility and the high level of competition may contribute to the survey outcomes.

IMD- what about rampant anti-Semitism you say about Paris? Didn't mention that (yet!) or I may have missed it as I expected it.

also find Chinese behaviour such as spitting, public urinating and defecating, shouting, ignoring no entry signs, etc etc highly offensive.>

Parisians upset about public urination - though it seems to have waned with the free public toilets all over for years when I was in Paris it was usual to see clochards pissing right out in the open and black asphalt sidewalks often had tell-tale traces of the urine flower after it dried, leaving dark marks.

Just others by how you judge yourself.

Newbe the next fact you cite will be the first. You rarely write about travel, so what is your contribution?

PalenQ-how come you ignored the fact that Le Pens' party got 25% of the vote. That is a racist, anti-immigrant party, that doesn't even disguise its intentions.

There is a problem with the Chinese that no other major capital seems to have.

There is a pattern here bolstered by facts.

"There is a problem with the Chinese that no other major capital seems to have."

Really? :
http://www.businessinsider.com/china...rassing-2013-8

The way to make all tourists less embarrassing is to let them travel. Then people will see that all countries have their embarrassing people as well as the less embarrassing.

After all, it cured some of the Americans. ;-)

PalenQ-how come you ignored the fact that Le Pens' party got 25% of the vote. That is a racist, anti-immigrant party, that doesn't even disguise its intentions>

you are thinking of the old one-eyed (lost it in a brawl I heard) Le Pen's National Front party - and not the 'new' Marie Le Pen party - my French friends are less racists than most French even flirted with it - not because of racism but the fear the France is losing its 'frenchness' as my French ex-wife said - a bit different than outright racism.

<There is a problem with the Chinese that no other major capital seems to have.>
IMD, now I know you didn't even read the article the OP linked to but just went off on your own musings--kind word, that--as usual.

The thread was started to discuss problems Chinese tourists are having with the French. YOU are discussing problems with Chinese tourists, by way of pointless comparisons to your own neighborhood and not-subtle-enough dog whistles to the xenophobic.