Chateauneuf de Pape
 

Partner and I are interested in visiting Chateauneuf de Pape next June when we are in Provence. Please tell me what you know about purchasing wine in France. Is it better to ship wine home or carry it home? Also, what kind of prices are we looking at? I just bought a bottle of 2004 Chateauneuf de Pape at Whole Foods for $25. Will there be a significant savings if I buy it there? Also, we're just starting to educate ourselves about wine, so any general advice would be appreciated.

Yes wine tends to be much cheaper in France. You will find a wide variety of prices for Chateauneuf du Pape depending on the quality of the wine. The problem now with carrying wine home is that you can no longer take it on board with you due to liquid restrictions. You would have to check it which could be risky if not well packed. You are also limited to a certain number of bottles by customs in the US. Beyond that number you have to pay tax. However, I once took back 6 bottles and was not charged duty. Check the US customs web site for more info.

As far as tasting wine is concerned, just look for the signs on the road guiding you to the various wine houses that offer tasting.

Hi C,

Although you will find the wine cheaper in France, shipping it home will eat up your savings, and could spoil the wine.

Bring home as much as you can in checked baggage.

They make containers for just that purpose.

Pack a duffle bag for your dirty laundry and put your wine in your suitcases.

The duty on wine is now so low that US Customs doesn't bother to collect the fee (usually). Do declare it, or it could be confiscated.

>...we're just starting to educate ourselves about wine, so any general advice would be appreciated.<

Whites before Reds. Sweet before dry.

Too much Champagne will give you a headache.

A carafe of vin de maison is usually OK.

Try the Rose's

Find a wine bar and taste.

See http://www.terroir-france.com/ for a guide to French wines.

Enjoy your visit.

Hi Cimbrone. You're going to be in one of my favourite red wine districts. In addition to trying Châteaneuf-du-Pape, look for some of its neighbours: Vacqueyras, Gigondas, and any of the Côtes-du-Rhône Villages (there are about 16 villages that add their name to the label, such as Sablet, Rasteau, and Cairanne.) They share a similar climate and I think all of them include the Grenache, Syrah, and Mourvèdre grapes, although in different proportions. All of these reds tend to be light and spicy with suggestions of raspberry and black currant.

I can't help on the best way to get these home, but I can mention that larger towns usually have stores that specialize in wine. There's one in Uzès, for example, whose name escapes me at the moment, but it is on the west side of rue de la République, just before it enters Place aux Herbes. We found the owner very helpful.

You can buy wine very inexpensively in France, at least when compared to the prices we pay in Nova Scotia. You'll find a wide selection in grocery stores such as Leclerc and Carrefour, but we have had better value for money by going to specialty stores and trying their recommendations.

Happy travels, as always, and best wishes for the New Year.

Anselm

We carried home 4 bottles of CNdP for us and our kids and would not bother again. I really wish I had brought back some of the burgundy however. I think that may be the place you can get a value. But basically, I just don't think it is worth the hassle. You can't take it on the plane any more. Duty is not really a problem--they just wave it through. Shipping is prohibitively expensive.

Bear in mind that Chateauneuf du Pape is only one of several outstanding "big" red wines produced in France.

Chateau Belair St. Emilion 2001 is one of the classics of them all. I have heard it goes for over $100 a bottle for ordinary stuff and a few selects corkings go for well over that.

Hi BB,

You can buy it on sale for about $60.00, depending on where you live.

((I))

ps One that I have read about as being a few years away from full maturity is
Chateau Lassegue 2003 Saint-Emilion Grand Cru

Most of those big reds can benefit from another year or two of maturing.

There are so many of them that even experts don't know them all.

And of course wine quality is a function of personal taste.

I also think that the best California wines can rival anything from France.
That comment will touch off an argument I am sure, but I have demonstrated on more than one occasion that self appointed wine snobs often don't know.

I once switched a very good vintage California wine made from the same variety of grape as a well-known Bordeaux wine. My snob friend drank California wine from a French bottle and pronounced it superior.

Don't even bother trying to get it home - you are much better off just drinking it all while you are there - tastes better somehow that way !

-Kevin

If you do decide to bring home a few bottles of CDP, here are a few names to be on the lookout for:

Chateau Rayas (rare and expensive)
Beaucastel
Vieux Telegraph (among the most well known)
Clos des Papes
Le Vieux Donjon

The vine yards would be interesting to see, as the grapes appear to sprout from stones.

Phoey the naysayers. Buy your CdP and haul it home. Do a little work now and then later you can enjoy special events with something totally unique in your home town.

It is a pity that we can't bring it on board any more, but you can still bring it as checked luggage. Pack it well. I suggest styrofoam for impact and insulation and a sealed plastic bag around it all for drip insurance.

US Customs enforces US rules and state laws. Some states prohibit or limit the amount of alcohol you can bring over the state line, a hangover from the abolition of prohibition. You are allowed $800, I think, of goods duty free into the USA. After that it is only 10% tax. French wine is much cheaper in France than in the USA. Same goes for Swiss watches and Swiss Army knives. You also have a much greater selection of all of the above.

IIWY, I would travel to Burgundy and get your goods up there. Go to negotiants in Nuits-St-Georges and Beaune. They all allow you to taste before buying.

Burgundy is mostly red wine country and the primary grape in Burgundy is pinot noir. A secondary red grape is gamay from the southern end, Beaujolais. My favorite is a wine called Passetoutgrains which is a blend of pinot noir and gamay. It ages well, if you can resist.

Also ask for an aligote if you like whites.

Shipping wine back from France is difficult and expensive; much better to carry it yourself.

Check out the wine departments at the large supermarkets and hypermarkets, such as Auchan and René LeClerc, and also at Carrefours. You will find an amazing number of bottles at excellent prices. My mouth waters just thinking about those shelves.

hopscotch, are you suggesting the poster get Chateauneuf de Pape in Burgundy? Or are you suggesting he ignore that wonderful wine and just buy burgundy instead? I'm not a burgundy drinker myself and wouldn't bother to bring any home. Chateauneuf de Pape or a nice Bordeaux is quite another matter.

Meanwhile the comment that you can buy a 2004 Chateauneuf de Pape at Whole Foods for $25 really doesn't mean anything. It's sort of like saying I can buy a bottle of Napa Valley Cabernet at 7-11 for $7.99. Which Cabernet? Which Chateauneuf de Pape?

I do love an aligote--and can buy it here and not lug it back.
And CdP is definitely a Rhone, not a burgundy.

Oh, and we paide $25 for our fairly recent vintage CdP when we were there--when the exchange rate was really good. You'll pay more for the older ones, of course. They ain't cheap there either.

Also check out Cote Roti which is my personal favorite french wine. It is in the same area as Chateauneuf du Pape.

In case anyone here is interested, Chateauneuf-du-Pape reds occupy two of the top 11 in Wine Spectator's 100 Top Wines of 2006. They are:

#5. Domaine du Pegau Cuvee Reservee 2003 ($70 release price in US)
#11. Clos des Papes, 2004 ($80)

Those prices will vary a great deal, even within the US but they give you some idea..

There are also white wines from the region.

<i>Author: NeoPatrick
Date: 12/30/2006, 04:13 pm
hopscotch, are you suggesting the poster get Chateauneuf de Pape in Burgundy?</i>

Sorry I left that impression.

well, actually you didn't. I guess then that what you were really saying was for Cimbrone to forget all about taking home Chateauneuf de Pape and take home burgundy instead. If I were Cimbrone I'd certainly ignore that advice -- burgundies don't rival Chateauneuf de Pape's in my humble opinion.

&gt;I also think that the best California wines can rival anything from France.&lt;

Anything can rival anything else, but are you saying that the top CA wines are the equal of the top Burgundy and Bordeaux wines?

((I))

I have no opinion on this. But the 2006 Judgement of Paris redux gave the edge once again to California.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5435227

&quot;Anything can rival anything else, but are you saying that the top CA wines are the equal of the top Burgundy and Bordeaux wines?&quot;

Yea, ira, bob brown probably is saying that. And if he is, then he is right by most opinions today. ekscrunchy's link is just one of many saying that very thing.

Here is another link to the event:


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...05/25/WINE.TMP

<i>Author: NeoPatrick
Date: 12/31/2006, 09:37 am
well, actually you didn't. I guess then that what you were really saying was for Cimbrone to forget all about taking home Chateauneuf de Pape and take home burgundy instead. If I were Cimbrone I'd certainly ignore that advice -- burgundies don't rival Chateauneuf de Pape's in my humble opinion.</i>

I would only ignore my advice if Cimbrone did not want to take the trouble to travel up to Burgundy, which I can fully appreciate. Since Chateauneuf du Pape is right there in Provence s/he should surely visit, taste, and bring home some souvenirs.

As for preferring one wine over another that is a matter of personal taste. We all have individual taste buds. Chateauneuf du Pape is an excellent full-bodied dry red wine, made with syrah, grenache, and other grapes.

For my budget I prefer Burgundy, made with pinot noir. If I had more money I would drink the grand cru from Gevrey-Chambertin near Dijon. Superb.

Wikipedia notes on Gevrey-Chambertin: http://tinyurl.com/yelk93
Google map: http://tinyurl.com/shlx2

Sant&eacute;!

???
Sure. Wine is a matter of personal taste, and since Cimbrone's post was all about bringing home what I asssumed was his preferred taste -- &quot;Chateauneuf de Pape&quot; I guess I just didn't get why you were telling him to forget his taste and do yours instead -- a burgundy.

And yes I personally much prefer the more full bodied reds than a Pinot Noir or Burgundy. I thought maybe Cimbrone is the same since that's what he was asking about.

No problem, just didn't get the point, I guess.

Hi ek,

&gt;Here is another link to the event:..&lt;

If I read this correctly, the very same wines that competed in 1973 were compared again.

Wouldn't one expect the results to be almost the same?

Were the wines tasted from outstanding vintages?

Have there been yearly comparisons?

Is this anything more than a publicity stunt? :)

((I))

<i>Author: NeoPatrick
Date: 12/31/2006, 12:18 pm
I just didn't get why you were telling him to forget his taste and do yours instead -- a burgundy.
And yes I personally much prefer the more full bodied reds than a Pinot Noir or Burgundy. I thought maybe Cimbrone is the same since that's what he was asking about.
No problem, just didn't get the point, I guess.
</i>

Just exercising my first amendment rights, as far as Fodor's allows, I wrote
&quot;IIWY, I would travel to Burgundy and get your goods up there.&quot;

I have no arguement with CdP. I like it, and it is ideal with heavy red meat like a rib roast or venison. I think it is too overpowering for everyday meals. Passetoutgrains is a good wine for almost everything, except white fish and boiled eggs.

Get your corkscrew ready and Happy New Year!

Ira, just to answer one of your questions, yes, the 1970 Bordeaux vintage was considered exceptional.
Obviously the wines were very different after 30 years which was the point of the competition.

Cimbrone,

If you can call ahead and make appointments with Clos des Papes (Avril), Rayas, Vieux Telegraphe and Dom. du Pegau, then you will be in good shape.

The 2003 Pegau Reservee is a terrific wine (Mdme. Laurence Ferraud, winemaker/owner of Pegau, will happily accomodate you for tastings and will ship bottles to the US). The futures prices here for the 2003 about a year and half ago was less than $40 and now it is only available for about $90. Ask for and buy the 2004 if she is offering in the winery. It costs about $60 here in the northeast.

Daniel Brunier, the kind owner/winermaker of Ch. Vieux Telegraphe, will gladly accomodate you for tastings. I wouldn't be surprised if you fall for their terific whites.

P_egau, Clos des Papes, Beaucastel and Vieus Telegraphe are reliable producers that I and my more knowledgeable wine-enthusiast friends go for by the cases year in and out.

Oh, and by the way, one poster wrote about Ch Belair. This one has nothing to do with CdP as Saint Emilion is a commune in Bordeaux and is miles away, in wine style and actual distance, from Southern Rhone. By the way, there are better Right Bank Bordeaux wines that can be had for the same value.

Also, and imho, none of the US producers can compare to the ones produced in the Rhone. Complexity, style, lonevity and elegance are unmatched by any US producer at this point.

I am not so bold in my old age as to say any wine is always the best and that French wines are always superior to those produced elsewhere.

At one point in my life I fancied myself a wine expert. Talk about self delusion!!

Despite gallons of consumption, I am about as expert as my next door neighbor who could not pronounce Chateau Neuf du Pape if someone wrote it out phonetically.

What I have observed is that the best California wines are the equal of just about any. Even self-appointed experts cannot always tell which is which particularly if blindfolded and drinking from an unmarked glass.

In many respects California producers have an edge because of scientific production methods plus the even climate of the Napa Valley. Both factors are conducive to the production of great wines.

In saying that, I believe that great wines produced all over the world and no one area has a monopoly on all the top level ones.

I think the bottom line is that just any bottle with Chateau Neuf du Pape on the label may or may not be as good as a Mondavi or a Krug made from the same variety grape. Unless ones knows the vintage, the region, and even the vinyard where the grapes were grown, the generic name on the label is not 100% indicative of quality.

I personally don't try to bring wines home because it is not worth it. I can go to my local store and ask the guy who runs it what the &quot;potentates&quot; are saying about current best buys. He is usually right because he reads a lot and listens to the market &quot;scuttlebutt.&quot;

Price sure is not a reliable indicator of quality. It is more a function of advertising and the circulation of articles written by hired so-called experts.

I remember once I was at a California wine tasting festival. The tout was extolling the virtues of some wine for its full body, smoky flavor, a sauncy lingering flavor on the taste buds, and so on. To believe him was to believe that it was the greatest wine ever produced. I tried some of his juice and decided someone had raided the vinegar supply.

I don't claim to be an expert, as I am just a small collector and but an ardent enthusiast with personal and evolving opinions on wines. However, I know very well that the correct way to write it, as opposed to the previous post is:
Chateauneuf du Pape. Not Chateau Neuf Du Pape.

It is indeed Chateauneuf du Pape. Meaning the &quot;new palace of the pope&quot;, a reference to the time that there were two popes, one of which resided in Avignon.

As far as the California vs France question is concerned, here is my 2 cents. I am not going to talk about super premium wines which are out of my reach but rather wine that one can afford for the vast majority of meals at home.

French wine tends to be a much better value for your money. I am talking about prices in France..... You can get a very drinkable bottle of wine for 3 or 4 euros and in the 10 to 12 euro range they can be quite good. IMHO when you talk about California wines you have to spend a minimum of 12$ for a bottle to get something decent and more in the 20 to 25 dollar range for a nice bottle. I also find that California wines tend to be heavy handed on the oaky taste which is popular in the US. You can of course get that flavor in France as well but you can also find a very wide variety of tastes depending on the region of production.

Sorry I seem to have dropped off the planet...have been vacationing in the mountains. Thanks for the excellent advice.

A French friend of some means gave us a small bottle of chateauneuf de pape (Vieux Telegraphe) and I fell in love with it. Wondering what that would cost in the U.S. vs. France. The $25 wholefoods bottle from a vineyard whose name I can find nowhere did not come close to it.

Yes, we'll be in Burgundy (Dijon) and no doubt do some tasting there as well.

I know I read that one of the &quot;houses&quot; of Chateauneuf du Pape is experimenting with BOXED wine...yep. That's what I'm saying...BOXED wine, 5 liters and it doesn't go bad...? Problems now with corking... he's giving the boxes a shot.
That would be easy to bring home ...
I was given a good St. Emillion for Christmas; had it Christmas night...niiiiice.

LOL !